Nvidia Loses 10 Million PC order in China; AMD Called In Instead

[borisvodofsky]

Whole graphics card might be $30, but chip itself might not be more than $10. Chinese
need only the chip, they'll make rest cheap.

you apparently don't know how licensing works. LOL

 

[soccerballtux]

Note: China is paying licenses for Hypertransport, so at least in this regard they are not stealing IP.

if they could get away with it, they wouldn't be

 

[soccerballtux]

it's pretty interesting most of the older members here see the wisdom in Nvidia's ways, most of the younger crowd don't.

 

[sandorski]

it's pretty interesting most of the older members here see the wisdom in Nvidia's ways, most of the younger crowd don't.

 

[Lonyo]

So AMD already have open source drivers, and the Chinese haven't yet ripped off their design.
They are using it with a Chinese CPU, which was developed using a MIPS like architecture, but wasn't MIPS because they avoided using patented bits, and then eventually came to a licensing agreement so they could use the patented aspects.

And now everyone thinks China is going to steal all AMDs work, and NV is right for avoiding the Chinese.

Nice to see the logic.

(http://mips.com/news-events/newsroom/newsindex/index.dot?id=42163)

 

[PUN]

I don't think you guys understand the potential scale of this business that just went to AMD.

And when China wants to move money, it's fvcking scary.

3 million students take college entrance exams every year.

So lets say we got from k-12 x 3 million. $30 gpu to every kid.

13x3 million x30, 1.1 billion dollars.

And this sets up the company for repeat business in Numerous other areas.

I don't care how rich anyone is right now. No one in their right mind should ever NOT gamble for 1.1 billion dollars.

No one in their right mind also don't shell out millions of dollars without any guaranteed return. Nvidia made the right call by sticking with their rules and policy. Chinese wanted them to venture in with too much cost without any agreed contract.
1.1B dollars? Yes, but the important word is "Potential" dollars.

If I am sellling a used car and the buyer wants me to repaint the car. I am making sure he pays for the repaint, and credits upon its sale. Only the suckers hold an empty bag crying out loud.

 

[Atreidin]

So AMD already have open source drivers, and the Chinese haven't yet ripped off their design.
They are using it with a Chinese CPU, which was developed using a MIPS like architecture, but wasn't MIPS because they avoided using patented bits, and then eventually came to a licensing agreement so they could use the patented aspects.

And now everyone thinks China is going to steal all AMDs work, and NV is right for avoiding the Chinese.

Nice to see the logic.

(http://mips.com/news-events/newsroom/newsindex/index.dot?id=42163)

I distrust China as much as or more than the Nvidia apologists, but it is sad how little knowledge they have about what exactly goes into producing the products they are so passionate about.

China is not full of magical tech-wizards that can copy hardware by looking at driver source code and documentation. Anyone who thinks they can do that has pretty worthless opinions on this topic.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Quick Anand Thesaurus update for those not keeping track:

Never had = Losing

Winning = Not being considered until the best option left the table

 

[ShintaiDK]

I dont know how the stupid anti China attitude or the usual AMD vs nVidia came into the thread. In my view its simply about ROI. Would a potential deal be worth it or not.

Also this article is most likely utter BS. No source and the article is filled with flamebait and trolling, not to mention the fundemental flaws.
So its amazing we even have a thread about it.

 

[Lonyo]

Quick Anand Thesaurus update for those not keeping track:

Never had = Losing

Winning = Not being considered until the best option left the table

BallaTheFeared dictionary update for those not keeping track:
Losing doesn't mean what the dictionary says it means, it means only half of what the dictionary says. The other part of the definition doesn't exist.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/losing

verb (used without object)
23.
to suffer loss: to lose on a contract.
24.
to suffer defeat or fail to win, as in a contest, race, or game: We played well, but we lost.

If NV is an option, and they must go for one of the options, and they don't go for NV even though NV was a potential candidate (which according to the story they were, otherwise the discussion which led to dropping NV as an option would never have happened...), NV lost.
Just because you didn't sign a contract, doesn't mean you can't lose. Otherwise no one would ever lose when it comes to tenders etc, because hey, they never had a contract, so while they didn't win the tender, they didn't lose either!

And it doesn't matter how you win if you win. The definition of winning doesn't state the method.

It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning.

And to the above post, based on this, it's clearly just the usual NV vs AMD trolling, since people are arguing about the wording being used, rather than any substance (or not) of what is being discussed.
When you are arguing semantics, you know it's just trolling.

 

[blackened23]

I dont know how the stupid anti China attitude or the usual AMD vs nVidia came into the thread. In my view its simply about ROI. Would a potential deal be worth it or not.

Also this article is most likely utter BS. No source and the article is filled with flamebait and trolling, not to mention the fundemental flaws.
So its amazing we even have a thread about it.

Because Chinese politicians are scum and advocate the outright theft of IP. Concerning world trade, China doesn't play fair and eventually it will bite them in the ass. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/business/economy/12leonhardt.html

Concerning this deal, like I said -- if China can steal it, they will. Morals mean nothing, this has been shown repeatedly because of their actions in the past.

 

[iluvdeal]

Here's the tale of one US company's experience in China. It's an interesting read: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ge-boom-knocks-wind-out-of-u-s-companies.html

 

[blackened23]

Here's the tale of one US company's experience in China. It's an interesting read: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ge-boom-knocks-wind-out-of-u-s-companies.html

Good read. Good example of how morals mean nothing to corporate China.

 

[Keysplayr]

Here's the tale of one US company's experience in China. It's an interesting read: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ge-boom-knocks-wind-out-of-u-s-companies.html

I hope China is a self sustaining country. Because not too long from now, no other country is going to trade with them either by choice or by international trade blockade. Nobody will trust them.

 

[postmortemIA]

you apparently don't know how licensing works. LOL

you apparently have no idea how much mass produced hardware costs.
hint: intel used to charge about $3 more for chipsets that had integrated graphics.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Because Chinese politicians are scum and advocate the outright theft of IP. Concerning world trade, China doesn't play fair and eventually it will bite them in the ass. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/business/economy/12leonhardt.html

Concerning this deal, like I said -- if China can steal it, they will. Morals mean nothing, this has been shown repeatedly because of their actions in the past.

There is a poverb saying: Dont throw stones when you live in a glass house.

Lookup Echelon and industrial espionage. And you see a certain country that blames another did exactly that.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides...ORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN

So lets stop the BS and stay on topic.

 

[Grooveriding]

LOL

China is far from in any trouble or fear of no one trading with them. Get real.

I understand there is resentment towards China in the US, because the US economy is in the toilet with no visible ladder out of the bowl. The angst against China is a little silly though, direct it at all the companies pushing their operations there to turn greater profits.

 

[IlllI]

yeah, i'd have to agree with this. they steal anything they can get their hands on. they even hacked nasa. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-control-Nasa-lab-commands-23-spacecraft.html although part of that seems to be their own fault. but i'm damn sure they stole whatever they could from those computers as well.

 

[blackened23]

LOL

China is far from in any trouble or fear of no one trading with them. Get real.

I understand there is resentment towards China in the US, because the US economy is in the toilet with no visible ladder out of the bowl. The angst against China is a little silly though, direct it at all the companies pushing their operations there to turn greater profits.

Regarding outsourcing -- That is really a separate issue completely, and that is what happens with a free trade economy. If another country can do something cheaper, they will have a comparative advantage over other countries. So China can do grunt labor cheaper than the US can, so this means China can mass produce electronics for much cheaper than the US an. We are outsourcing grunt labor to China, because they do it cheaper - without labor unions, without high wages, without benefits. This doesn't actually hurt our economy IMO, it just hurts mindshare among some less educated US folks.

Chinese folks are willing to produce motherboards for 3 cents a day with no benefits, Americans aren't -- and this doesn't really hurt our economy like I mentioned. IP theft is a different issue completely.

 

[ZimZum]

China is not full of magical tech-wizards that can copy hardware by looking at driver source code and documentation. Anyone who thinks they can do that has pretty worthless opinions on this topic.

This

The costs that would come with attempting to reverse engineer and go into production with your own facsimile of a GPU would be mind boggling. The amount of time it would take would also mean that the part you're working on would be completely obsolete by the time it went into production. How many years and how much money has Intel spent trying to put out a decent GPU? And those guys actually know what there doing.

 

[Jionix]

Ug. This forum has become pretty divisive along the GPU party lines, and this topic is just a shining example of that. It is completely aggravating!

Thread started about Nvidia being passed on a major (?) Chinese project because of a money disagreement, segued around Nvidia actually passed on it for various reasons, Linus is a baby, because the Chinese are are IP thieves, because Nvidia drivers are better for being closed source, random Notty post on Chinese black market (??), because there was no money to be made, because the Chinese are immoral, polluted with the same old Nvidia vs. AMD, yada, yada, yada.

It makes my head hurt trying to find a place to jump in and interact and discuss, just knowing the absolute ridiculous agendas and talking points and the same old Nvidia v AMD that awaits any well-reasoned post.

P.S. Nvidia wins in Battlefield 3.

This is a great summation. Thread closed!
-ViRGE

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Ug. This forum has become pretty divisive along the GPU party lines, and this topic is just a shining example of that. It is completely aggravating!

Thread started about Nvidia being passed on a

Bizzzt, start over.

 

[Gloomy]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that reverse-engineering modern silicon was not trivial, and required acid, patience, the eggiest eggheads and an electron microscope.

And what would they do with the design once they have it? China doesn't have any 28nm fabs as far as I know... and surely TSMC wouldn't touch a reverse-engineering project with a ten foot pole.