Nvidia Loses 10 Million PC order in China; AMD Called In Instead

Status
Not open for further replies.

grimpr

Golden Member
Aug 21, 2007
1,095
7
81
China: NVIDIA Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...ion-pc-order-over-linux-drivers-and-nres.aspx

What Went Wrong?

Recently, Linus Torvalds, the father of Linux went on a tangent during a talk, gave NVIDIA the middle finger and said "Fuck You, NVIDIA." While NVIDIA attempted to mitigate the damage by releasing a story, there was a 'behind the curtain' reason why Linus was so frustrated with the company. It did not have to do with open source as much as it did with China.

A rumor appeared from the heart of Beijing that due to the performance of its GPU architecture and its Linux drivers, NVIDIA was approached by one of the leading Chinese CPU teams to use an NV GPU in a pilot school PC project. The Linux would run on the Chinese CPU, while GeForce GPU would provide the graphics power. 'Pilot project' in this case means over 10 million PCs in one order, broken down - 100,000 schools with 100-150 PCs each. The problem was two-fold; NVIDIA never releases source code for its Linux drivers, and the binaries are only X86. Incentivized by the Chinese government, the Chinese CPU team called NVIDIA to come to China and work with them.

To cut the story short, the NV team appeared there, and in very arrogant manner told the Chinese side that they are a large US corporation, and that recompiling the Linux drivers would cost the Chinese a lot of money. The money that Chinese CPU team and the Academy of Science were supposed to fork out was to the tune of several million dollars in incentive that are typically referred to as NRE - Non-recurring Engineering.

Our sources close to the heart of the matter said that was the end of the meeting and of the relationship. While we cannot foresee the consequences of that meeting, bear in mind that back at the day, Intel supplied Chinese government with an Itanium-based cluster that failed miserably, and the Chinese forced Intel to invest heavily in China. To this date, this was one of smartest moves Intel pulled, as they enjoy a very fruitful relationship with the Chinese government.

Epilogue - AMD Wins

With NVIDIA back in Santa Clara, California and Southern China, there was no doubt as to who the Chinese would call next. The other GPU vendor, while having mediocre Linux drivers, at least did not make any fuss over source code access. This ended up in being part of a 10-15 million PC project. Even if selling its cheapest DirectX 11 capable GPUs, this is a revenue opportunity of at least 250-350 million dollars. Thus, if the Beijing rumor turns out to be true, this means NVIDIA destroyed a relationship with a potential long term partner, which in turn began working with AMD. All of this was caused by a couple of million dollars in NRE's on GPUs which were already paid out (let's say NVIDIA would end up selling 10 million GeForce GT 520 boards), and for a project that required drivers that NVIDIA needs to develop anyways (after all, CARMA toolkit is consisted out of ARM-powered Tegra 3 processor and a 96-core Quadro GPU)?

The real question remains, though - when will the company stockholders start demanding responsibility for a lost deal of at least quarter a billion dollars, a deal that went to NVIDIA's direct competitor - which is rapidly gaining market share?

How many similar deals has the company lost by being arrogant and demanding NRE (Non-Return Engineering) from companies that would buy anywhere from tens of thousands of Tegras, GeForces, Quadros and Teslas - to tens of millions? After all, NVIDIA proudly pronounced that the company took Intel's spot with BMW Group, while the deal for next generation of embedded systems in cars went to Freescale as the SoC and Vivante as the GPU provider.

Bear in mind that this school PC project was just a pilot, while the full fledged program aims to place a computer on every desk in China's schools and replace as much paper as possible. While the kids in the West are stuck carrying their books around, the goal in China is to have children carrying no more than one or two paper notebooks, to be replaced with tablets in near future. What is considered science fiction in the West, due to numerous interest groups - is considered a plan in China.

Many high end Chinese CPUs use AMD-designed HyperTransport to connect their processors to SMP setups, which provides more opportunity for the red team, and we don't mean red as in RED 4K/5K camera, although China is very interested in that as well...
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
Seems like a win to me.

10 million garbage Chinese PC's is exactly what the US needed.

"We go this one guys" -- NVDA
 

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2006
4,227
2
0
Oh look, Nvidia being scumbags again, who would have guessed?

Also lol at the US, your arrogance will be your downfall... I give it 50 years before China takes over
 

iluvdeal

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
1,975
0
76
And I thought it was because Nvidia's owner is Taiwanese. I wouldn't shed too many tears if I was Nvidia given the way doing business in China works for foreign companies: you tell them everything about your technology, a Chinese company will later appear offering the same tech and you get ushered out the door.

By the time this project is ready to go live, I'm willing to bet the graphics provider will be from a Chinese company just as the CPU already is. China wants to promote their own best interests by investing in home grown companies, I can't say I blame them for that. Why spend millions, maybe billions once all is said and done for this program, and have it go offshore?
 
Last edited:

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
Really, that long?

The sun will probably burn out before then.


I don't see a problem with Nvidia, all I see is Linus Torvalds deserving a good old "You mad bro" because after all his moaning trying to avoid AMD he had to go with a distant second place anyways.
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
4
81
http://s18.postimage.org/h81fknnd5/GTX470_SLI.jpg
It's good to see the NVIDIA diehards get the crying in early.

But in all seriousness that's a substantial loss. I think the discrete market turns over ~160 million units a year, so that's about a double digit loss for NVIDIA. This negates pretty much everything that was said against Linus in the other thread.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
It's not a loss if they never had it, and seemingly, never wanted it that bad. Though this is good for AMD of course, something nobody really wanted getting passed off like table scraps, might make up for some of their cpu departments shortcomings.

He wants open source, Nvidia said no, he went on a classic butt hurt tirade like a child.

Brightside spun it a bit, but anyone can see Nvidia willingly turned it down.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Nvidia don't care and I don't either. Here is the thing. Say nvidia released code and someone compiles drivers. Who will they call when it don't work? That's right nvidia. I don't think nvidia wants to deal with that.
 
Last edited:

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
There is a reason nvidia has pretty decent drivers and I am sure they don't want everyone having their code out there. Be very easy to release poor drivers and have a thousand people posting on nvidia forums talking about their drivers don't work and trying to weed out the people using 3rd party sets. I just don't think nvidia gives a damn about Linux support.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I've heard that nvidia are jerks to deal with in the supply chain (arrogant sums it up) but honestly, dealing with China i'd say nvidia made the right move to not divulge trade secrets or sensitive information via open source.

Kyle at hardocp has said this many times, but intellectual property does not exist at all in China. If they can steal it, they will. I hope that doesn't seem inflammatory, but its true.
 
Last edited:

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,818
1,553
136
Kyle at hardocp has said this many times, but intellectual property does not exist at all in China. If they can steal it, they will. I hope that doesn't seem inflammatory, but its true.

If only the rest of the world followed suit we could instantly cure the financial crisis. Knowledge is freedom.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
And I thought it was because Nvidia's owner is Taiwanese. I wouldn't shed too many tears if I was Nvidia given the way doing business in China works for foreign companies: you tell them everything about your technology, a Chinese company will later appear offering the same tech and you get ushered out the door.

By the time this project is ready to go live, I'm willing to bet the graphics provider will be from a Chinese company just as the CPU already is. China wants to promote their own best interests by investing in home grown companies, I can't say I blame them for that. Why spend millions, maybe billions once all is said and done for this program, and have it go offshore?
+1.
Nvidia knows how to run a business effectively and JHH knows his stuff and wants what's best for his baby. AMD is just trying to tag along hence they do retarded stuff like this.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
If only the rest of the world followed suit we could instantly cure the financial crisis. Knowledge is freedom.

KV's Player Piano would unfold 10x faster than it is now. You've either figured this out by now and don't care because you want stuff for free, or you're not thinking things through.
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
1
0
Yes because making an open source driver is revealing trade secrets. AMD doesn't have much to loose because they've already given large amounts of data to the FOSS community.
 

borisvodofsky

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,606
0
0
I don't think you guys understand the potential scale of this business that just went to AMD.

And when China wants to move money, it's fvcking scary.

3 million students take college entrance exams every year.

So lets say we got from k-12 x 3 million. $30 gpu to every kid.

13x3 million x30, 1.1 billion dollars.

And this sets up the company for repeat business in Numerous other areas.

I don't care how rich anyone is right now. No one in their right mind should ever NOT gamble for 1.1 billion dollars.
 
Last edited:

BD231

Lifer
Feb 26, 2001
10,568
138
106
How can you not love nvidia by now? Microsoft? F-U! Intel? Shove it up your ass ! China, screw you AND your crippling waste problem you have no idea how to figure out due to over population !

The only way n-vidia should change it's stance on Linux is after Linus is dead so he can't profit on his unoriginal idea's and terrible business model. Bill Gates wannabe.
 

boxleitnerb

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2011
2,605
6
81
I've heard that nvidia are jerks to deal with in the supply chain (arrogant sums it up) but honestly, dealing with China i'd say nvidia made the right move to not divulge trade secrets or sensitive information via open source.

Kyle at hardocp has said this many times, but intellectual property does not exist at all in China. If they can steal it, they will. I hope that doesn't seem inflammatory, but its true.

This. If Nvidia agreed to this, in 3-5 years they might have been pushed out and would face competition from Chinese GPUs with Nvidia-enhanced drivers/knowledge.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.