nVidia GTX570s dying from Overclocking??

[apoppin]

Is the GTX 570 dying issue related to poor VRM cooling or they simply give up due to higher than spec current draw? The GTX 570/580 series are very notorious in regard of power consumption, they draw power like if there's no tomorrow when overclocked.

Is it established yet that there is a "dying issue"? How big is your sample out of the many thousands of cards in daily use - stock and overclocked?
:\

You are also apparently forgetting that both Nvidia and AMD have put in safeguards in the form of power limitation against a power virus like FurMark and they both generally stay within the PCIe spec for which they were engineered.

Of course, cards are overvolted and safeguards circumvented and cards fail without the owners bothering to mention what they did. The ones that aren't abused that fail are covered by warranties. It looks like a non-issue, so far.
^_^

 

[evolucion8]

Is it established yet that there is a "dying issue"? How big is your sample out of the many thousands of cards in daily use - stock and overclocked?
:\

You are also apparently forgetting that both Nvidia and AMD have put in safeguards in the form of power limitation against a power virus like FurMark and they both generally stay within the PCIe spec for which they were engineered.

Of course, cards are overvolted and safeguards circumvented and cards fail without the owners bothering to mention what they did. The ones that aren't abused that fail are covered by warranties. It looks like a non-issue, so far.
^_^

Hey hey calm down, I'm not the one who made this thread. I'm just asking which is the cause of such issue because I don't know it, not the numbers of cards or the percentage. And I know that both vendors have some sort of power limiter so please stay on topic as this thread is about which is the cause of the GTX 570 and how much SKU"s could be affected of this issue, not about what I know and what I forgot, thanks.

 

[apoppin]

Hey hey calm down, I'm not the one who made this thread. I'm just asking which is the cause of such issue because I don't know it, not the numbers of cards or the percentage. And I know that both vendors have some sort of power limiter so please stay on topic as this thread is about which is the cause of the GTX 570 and how much SKU"s could be affected of this issue, not about what I know and what I forgot, thanks.

First of all, this is not directed at you - rather at everyone including the OP
- you are quoted because i am replying generally

Secondly, i am quite calm and taking a break from writing my Gamer's view of SSD vs. HDD evaluation. And i am enjoying the heck out of my USB 2.0 Diamond 7.1 Sound card on my laptop with a 5.1 audio system, so i couldn't be much more contented.
()

However, my content won't stop me from asking the hard questions. You did type these words, did you not?

Originally Posted by evolucion8
Is the GTX 570 dying issue related to poor VRM cooling or they simply give up due to higher than spec current draw? The GTX 570/580 series are very notorious in regard of power consumption, they draw power like if there's no tomorrow when overclocked.

So, i was just asking what "dying issue" is there; or is it just a few dead cards that are getting publicity? Or is the issue itself, dying?

You also said that the GTX 570/580 is *notorious* (which implies more than "of note") for power consumption; whereas the facts would have us believe that they are in fact limited in power consumption compared to the Last Generation, GTX 470/480, which were in fact NOTORIOUS and loud to boot.

There should be a general thread warning users about the dangers of overclocking out of spec and/or flashing BIOSes and disabling safeguards. i am certain that one could start a thread about ANY video card as the OP has done.
Maybe i should start a thread in MBs about SLI under-supplying PCIe slots on Gigabyte X58 MBs and generalize the heck out of it

 

[thilanliyan]

If all these people are reporting that it is the VRMs dying, then I think that could be indication of an issue (ie. all issues wouldn't be related to VRMs if it wasn't a case of poor cooling or marginal spec...OR...it's a bad batch of VRMs which is entirely possible). I've been overvolting nV and ATI cards since my X1800XL and never had one fail due to OCing, especially due to the VRMs. I don't mean to suggest all 570s are going to die...just that you should be extra careful when OCing. And I would suggest more careful than maybe you would be normally.

A question:
Are there reports of people killing their 580 cards for example after turning off the current limiters?

EDIT:
I tried googling dead 580s and didn't find anything regarding dead 580s from OCing.

 

[evolucion8]

Or is the issue itself, dying?

You also said that the GTX 570/580 is *notorious* (which implies more than "of note") for power consumption; whereas the facts would have us believe that they are in fact limited in power consumption compared to the Last Generation, GTX 470/480, which were in fact NOTORIOUS and loud to boot.

There should be a general thread warning users about the dangers of overclocking out of spec and/or flashing BIOSes and disabling safeguards. i am certain that one could start a thread about ANY video card as the OP has done.
Maybe i should start a thread in MBs about SLI under-supplying PCIe slots on Gigabyte X58 MBs and generalize the heck out of it

Well, is true that the GTX 570/580 have tuned up power consumption, but that doesn't mean that they power friendly. and well, the issue itself dying is related to the thread topic and the story shared by users of the GTX 570. And yes, it would be a nice idea to have a sticky regarding overclocking/bios flashing etc.

 

[apoppin]

Again, this is not directed at you although i am quoting you. And i have to get back to work, so i won't be back for awhile

When you google "dead GTX 580" you get a few hits; when you google dead GTX 570 you get a lot more and they are mostly overclocking forums thread referenced - over and over?

So i am *asking* especially the OP - are we ASSUMING? Are there a LOT of dead GTX 570? Or just a lot of discussion on a few forums with a few dead cards? Remember that there are thousands of GTX 570s and not that many reports that i can find. Has any tech site said anything?

Or are there? What is the consensus?
:\ ...

If all these people are reporting that it is the VRMs dying, then I think that could be indication of an issue (ie. all issues wouldn't be related to VRMs if it wasn't a case of poor cooling or marginal spec...OR...it's a bad batch of VRMs which is entirely possible). I've been overvolting nV and ATI cards since my X1800XL and never had one fail due to OCing, especially due to the VRMs.

A question:
Are there reports of people killing their 580 cards for example after turning off the current limiters?

EDIT:
I tried googling dead 580s and didn't find anything regarding dead 580s from OCing.

 

[Grooveriding]

If all these people are reporting that it is the VRMs dying, then I think that could be indication of an issue (ie. all issues wouldn't be related to VRMs if it wasn't a case of poor cooling or marginal spec...OR...it's a bad batch of VRMs which is entirely possible). I've been overvolting nV and ATI cards since my X1800XL and never had one fail due to OCing, especially due to the VRMs.

A question:
Are there reports of people killing their 580 cards for example after turning off the current limiters?

EDIT:
I tried googling dead 580s and didn't find anything regarding dead 580s from OCing.

I've read that there are differences in the 580 vs 570 PCB in terms of onboard components. Perhaps they use different VRMs or more of them on the 580. Would be simply a matter of getting a few bare shots of both cards.

The 580 is the bottom card, the top is a 480.

GTX 570

So there are some definite differences between the two boards, most clearly there are less VRMs on the 570 and those small brown ones are not present on the 580. There are also less caps on the 570.

This may be the source of the flaw with the 570 once you try overclocking it.

 

[evolucion8]

Again, this is not directed at you although i am quoting you. And i have to get back to work, so i won't be back for awhile.

That's fine, I have to work at 7pm,

 

[apoppin]

This may be the source of the flaw with the 570 once you try overclocking it.

Has anyone actually established that there IS a flaw with GTX 570?

How many cards are we talking about???


i'll check back in a day or so to see if anyone bothers with a fact check. i'd really like to know and to be able to report on it.
^_^

 

[thilanliyan]

So i am *asking* especially the OP - are we ASSUMING? Are there a LOT of dead GTX 570? Or just a lot of discussion on a few forums with a few dead cards? Remember that there are thousands of GTX 570s and not that many reports that i can find. Has any tech site said anything?
:\ ...

That overclock.net forum has been referenced in other threads but is NOT the only source.

No of course I'm not assuming (I can only speak for myself) that there are a LOT of dead 570s. However, in every case that someone has posted about after OCing, it seems to be the VRMs crapping out. How many other cards (ATI or nVidia) are showing something similar? As I said, I would expect this to show up in 580s as well, UNLESS the 570s power delivery hardware is more marginal relatively speaking.

The information is there for anyone to read. People can choose to read it or not...it doesn't really matter to me either way. Again, I am not saying avoid 570s...just to be a little bit more careful (than normal) when OCing in case this is really an issue.

 

[Castiel]

That overclock.net forum has been referenced in other threads but is NOT the only source.

No of course I'm not assuming (I can only speak for myself) that there are a LOT of dead 570s. However, in every case that someone has posted about after OCing, it seems to be the VRMs crapping out. How many other cards (ATI or nVidia) are showing something similar? As I said, I would expect this to show up in 580s as well, UNLESS the 570s power delivery hardware is more marginal relatively speaking.

I haven't seen any threads about 580's popping VRM's

 

[thilanliyan]

I haven't seen any threads about 580's popping VRM's

I guess we'll have to wait and see if this is really an issue or just limited to a certain run of cards.

 

[Jovec]

Has anyone actually established that there IS a flaw with GTX 570?

How many cards are we talking about???


i'll check back in a day or so to see if anyone bothers with a fact check. i'd really like to know and to be able to report on it.
^_^

I understand your logic and have no stake in this horse/thread, but it's really impossible for forum users to gather a large enough sample size (let alone the required accuracy) to make this kind of determination.

We can assume that forum users, especially on certain sites, are more likely to experience problems because they are more likely to overclock, unlock, and overvolt. But that doesn't necessarily mean a problem with the 570's design or components.

 

[Castiel]

I'd so go with a 480 over a 570 these days. Pity the prices on the 480's never dropped

 

[Genx87]

Has anyone actually established that there IS a flaw with GTX 570?

How many cards are we talking about???


i'll check back in a day or so to see if anyone bothers with a fact check. i'd really like to know and to be able to report on it.
^_^

I am more interested in how anybody can consider it a flaw when a product is run outside its stated specs?

 

[Gikaseixas]

I am more interested in how anybody can consider it a flaw when a product is run outside its stated specs?

this seems to be the norm here. I couldn't believe when i read some comments on the 6950 to 6970 mod thread. Same deal, same people defending, accusing, blaming, making up excuses, as if they're being paid

 

[Grooveriding]

I am more interested in how anybody can consider it a flaw when a product is run outside its stated specs?

Considering how much 'well you can overclock this and now it's ultimate bang for the buck' or 'just toss some more voltage in her! now you've got X card for $20 less!' has been thrown around here, I'm not surprised to see issues being made of this.

Perhaps with all the GTX 570s exploding from being overclocked this will put to rest all the trash about how you can mod your card in such and such a way and suddenly it's as good as this other stock card. Without the mention that there is no guarantee that you can even manage the overclock, or that the hardware will survive it. Yet the card you're chasing after is guaranteed to run at said performance level.

In future when there are claims of just buy this card and overclock it, I think this is a good thread to link to. To remind everyone overclocking is no guarantee and is certainly not safe.

Not to mention the people RMAing their cards after they explode to vendors that don't cover overclocking. If you want to overclock and you want a warranty, buy an EVGA and pay the extra $20 ffs.

 

[Skurge]

I am more interested in how anybody can consider it a flaw when a product is run outside its stated specs?

Nobody said its a flaw, is it so hard to understand that we just want to find out why this is happening? This is not an nV bash fest. You will see the same members posted in the 6950 thread about why some 6950 are failing after a flash. We discussed various things like memory timings, voltages, power consumption (which i think is bogus), faulty clusters.

We are trying doing the same in this thread, the only difference is that red/green members suddenly changed their opinions from its a "non issue" to its a major one depending on the vendor. How can some of the members here call themselves "enthusiasts" when they defend one company over another so fanatically and go to frankly extreme length to slander one or the other. Its ridiculous. I'd expect this on a sports forum, but not here.

I'm sure most of you are much older than me (19), but some of you behave like children, what is it about video cards that gets people so worked up that they can't act civil? Look at the CPU subforum. Its awesome, apart from the few trolls (who get warnings and bans when they do it too much) it so civil and all people care about there is the tech, not who made it.

Screw it, I'm done with this place.

 

[evolucion8]

Nobody said its a flaw, is it so hard to understand that we just want to find out why this is happening? This is not an nV bash fest. You will see the same members posted in the 6950 thread about why some 6950 are failing after a flash. We discussed various things like memory timings, voltages, power consumption (which i think is bogus), faulty clusters.

We are trying doing the same in this thread, the only difference is that red/green members suddenly changed their opinions from its a "non issue" to its a major one depending on the vendor. How can some of the members here call themselves "enthusiasts" when they defend one company over another so fanatically and go to frankly extreme length to slander one or the other. Its ridiculous. I'd expect this on a sports forum, but not here.

I'm sure most of you are much older than me (19), but some of you behave like children, what is it about video cards that gets people so worked up that they can't act civil? Look at the CPU subforum. Its awesome, apart from the few trolls (who get warnings and bans when they do it too much) it so civil and all people care about there is the tech, not who made it.

Screw it, I'm done with this place.

Don't waste your time explaining yourself to brand loyalist and keep this thread alive. While there's trolls around, there's also lots of reasonable people paying attention here. I've received numerous attacks and yet I keep going because I back up my claims and shut them up. Your thread topic is pretty valid and is a concern for GTX 570 users, just like is a concern for HD 6950 users on the other HD 6950 unlocked thread.

 

[thilanliyan]

Your thread topic is pretty valid and is a concern for GTX 570 users, just like is a concern for HD 6950 users on the other HD 6950 unlocked thread.

EXACTLY. I am glad that 6950 thread was made...people trying to flash with a 6970 BIOS was not a good idea and that thread brought attention to that fact. Hopefully this is just a case of isolated cards but it's good to have the info there anyway.

 

[3DVagabond]

EXACTLY. I am glad that 6950 thread was made...people trying to flash with a 6970 BIOS was not a good idea and that thread brought attention to that fact. Hopefully this is just a case of isolated cards but it's good to have the info there anyway.

Any idea why the dual BIOS switch is there then? Not arguing that information isn't good to have. The cards are obviously designed for this, though.

 

[SHAQ]

I think you'll find BIOS flashing is not covered by any GPU vendors but simple OC'ing is supported by many of them. Overvolting to a certain limit is allowed also by a few vendors. But if someone BIOS flashes or hacks the drivers to exceed the limits then it shouldn't be covered by RMA nor should people be surprised that the GPU's would fail more often as a result.

 

[thilanliyan]

Any idea why the dual BIOS switch is there then? Not arguing that information isn't good to have. The cards are obviously designed for this, though.

Honestly, I have no idead why it's there...maybe for "safety" like dual BIOS motherboards? And like the poster above me said, flashing a BIOS usually results in voiding the warranty doesn't it?

I would find it hard to believe AMD anticipated people buying 6950s instead of 6970s (but I wouldn't be surprised)? Who knows...maybe they did it to get some good will with enthusiasts.

 

[3DVagabond]

Honestly, I have no idead why it's there...maybe for "safety" like dual BIOS motherboards? And like the poster above me said, flashing a BIOS usually results in voiding the warranty doesn't it?

I would find it hard to believe AMD anticipated people buying 6950s instead of 6970s (but I wouldn't be surprised)? Who knows...maybe they did it to get some good will with enthusiasts.

FWIU, the purpose of the dual BIOS on motherboards is the same. If you frig something up in the BIOS and can't get it to boot, just flip the switch.

AMD does the same thing with their CPU's. For OEM and avg. consumers, a huge % of the customers, they buy off the shelf. For the enthusiasts who follow such things, the small % of us that there are, there's Easter eggs to encourage buying their stuff instead of the competition.

 

[Seero]

Sometime ago only those who know a thing or two about electronics can overclock as it requires soldiering, and replace of parts. Those were good times as those who failed to OC, meaning ended up with a dead card won't step up and say anything because they will be seriously laughed at and average people know Overclocking will kill your hardwares at a gain of 2 FPS.

There are 2 issues, 1) the card shouldn't die under mild OC, which is valid. You can say manufacturers use cheap parts, but they can also say that you killed the card with OC. You can RMA the card indicating what lead to the problem. You can sue them. Whether you have a chance of winning is another story.

2) You overclock without precaution. You read the part when some can OC a few hundred mhz without issue, so you tried, and ended up with a dead card. You could have read what others have post about their dead card, but you can, for some reason, find them after the fact. Did you take your chances?

Yes, mild OC should be okay, and yes, the fact that you OC makes the RMA process more difficult. You claimed you didn't, but can you prove it? They claim that you did, but can they prove it?

IMHO, customers are always right, and overclocking is becoming a norm. Manufacturer should have placed block mechanism if mild OC will easily kill the card. Having said that, if you use EVGA card, OC it with EVGA tools (precision) without removing safer guards and ended up with a dead card, then you are probably covered. If you use MSI afterburner to OC a non-MSI card and ended up with a dead card, then it can get complicated.

As a overclocker, I will give it to you blunt. Learn not to do things that you ain't up for the consequences. Do not cry out loud when you got your consequences because you deserve it. Do not act like a 5 years old, and don't even pretend you don't know about it. Those blood sucking manufacturers are far more ethical than you.