Nvidia GTX 690 = 2 x Nvidia GTX 680!!

[OCGuy]

They've got one chip with dubious availability. AMD has had their lineup out and available and nVidia has managed to produce a single GPU. It's a good chip, but I'd hardly claim some sort of major victory.

You have no idea what e-tailer listings means for "availability." Again, unless you are in insider, you have no idea if nV parterns get 25 a day and sell out instantly, or 2500.

You have no idea if 7970s finally being plentiful means that there is a ton of stock, or if the stock they have is just not selling.

Only time will tell.

 

[3DVagabond]

You have no idea what e-tailer listings means for "availability." Again, unless you are in insider, you have no idea if nV parterns get 25 a day and sell out instantly, or 2500.

You have no idea if 7970s finally being plentiful means that there is a ton of stock, or if the stock they have is just not selling.

Only time will tell.

I'm not talking about etailer listings. They've released one chip. There's the gk104 and nothing else.

 

[OCGuy]

I'm not talking about etailer listings. They've released one chip. There's the gk104 and nothing else.

Im am sure that is due to TSMC's well notated problems. After the price drops on the 580 and 570, they still have cards for people aren't looking to spend $600.

 

[3DVagabond]

Im am sure that is due to TSMC's well notated problems. After the price drops on the 580 and 570, they still have cards for people aren't looking to spend $600.

Of course it's not nVidia's fault. They're executing perfectly and the gods and the stars have both aligned against them and AMD is using fairy dust to make theirs. It must be that they are just holding back their other chips waiting for the perfect moment to pounce. Besides selling last years chips at 2/3 their previous price is always preferred to selling current product at a profit.

 

[OCGuy]

Of course it's not nVidia's fault. They're executing perfectly and the gods and the stars have both aligned against them and AMD is using fairy dust to make theirs. It must be that they are just holding back their other chips waiting for the perfect moment to pounce. Besides selling last years chips at 2/3 their previous price is always preferred to selling current product at a profit.

Last year's chips at 2/3rd the price, on a process that is so mature that the yields allow such a high margin compared to the crappy yields on the new node, is not a bad business model. It is not ideal, as I am sure nV wishes they had a full range of 28nm parts on the market, but they are far from hurting in that regard.

 

[imaheadcase]

People keep saying "GTX 680 SLI will be faster" but right from Anandtech article it says "Specs wise – and something they’re trying to make clear from the start – unlike what they did with the GTX 590 NVIDIA is targeting close to full GTX 680 SLI performance here. "

Not sure if true or not till benchmarks. Just pointing that out for those who keep yapping on about it.

 

[toyota]

People keep saying "GTX 680 SLI will be faster" but right from Anandtech article it says "Specs wise – and something they’re trying to make clear from the start – unlike what they did with the GTX 590 NVIDIA is targeting close to full GTX 680 SLI performance here. "

Not sure if true or not till benchmarks. Just pointing that out for those who keep yapping on about it.

all it takes is common sense to see that stock gtx680 sli will be slightly faster than a stock gtx690. all gtx690 specs are equal to gtx680 except that gtx690 will run at just a slightly reduced clockspeed.

 

[3DVagabond]

Last year's chips at 2/3rd the price, on a process that is so mature that the yields allow such a high margin compared to the crappy yields on the new node, is not a bad business model. It is not ideal, as I am sure nV wishes they had a full range of 28nm parts on the market, but they are far from hurting in that regard.

As you said, we don't know any figures, you and I. Since we can't pull any hard numbers out of our butts we'll have to agree to disagree. At least we can agree that nVidia is having crappy yields.

 

[OCGuy]

As you said, we don't know any figures, you and I. Since we can't pull any hard numbers out of our butts we'll have to agree to disagree. At least we can agree that nVidia is having crappy yields.

Yes, nVidia is. So is AMD.

"It can just as easily mean that 28nm yields are good, or at least passable, but that AMD, NVIDIA and Qualcomm simply have been asking for too much.

As a recap, Advanced Micro Devices needs 28nm chips for all its Radeon HD 7000 series of graphics cards, while NVIDIA has finally revealed the GeForce GTX 680. Neither corporation has another supplier to call upon"

http://news.softpedia.com/news/28nm-Shortages-Quite-Severe-at-TSMC-263225.shtml

 

[3DVagabond]

Yes, nVidia is. So is AMD.

"It can just as easily mean that 28nm yields are good, or at least passable, but that AMD, NVIDIA and Qualcomm simply have been asking for too much.

As a recap, Advanced Micro Devices needs 28nm chips for all its Radeon HD 7000 series of graphics cards, while NVIDIA has finally revealed the GeForce GTX 680. Neither corporation has another supplier to call upon"

http://news.softpedia.com/news/28nm-Shortages-Quite-Severe-at-TSMC-263225.shtml

Who says AMD is having any problems with yields/supply? Since you won't accept availability as meaning anything what else can we use to gauge? I mean, there certainly are plenty of 28nm AMD chips out there. Six different models and you can buy any of them, even in the US, anytime you want. They've even just recently had a price reduction. Not something you do when you are supply constrained. Short of having AMD and nVidia actually release the numbers to us, what else makes sense to you?

 

[Lepton87]

Reviewers don't care, just like they didn't care when Fermi was the only real HPC solution.

Fair or not it's still done, just like 5870 vs 480 comparisons, where Fermi destroyed 5xxx in tess and compute programmability and scaled much better into DX11 than 5xxx did while having a power limiter that Fermi did not and using Furmark to compare power draw.

BS. 5870 does not have power limiter it was introduced with 6970.

I'm not even talking about Bang/$. I was responding to the statement the nVidia is back with a vengeance. I only said that they've only released one chip while AMD has rolled out all 3 of theirs. To me it shows they are still having issues executing on a new process. Too early to claim any major victory.

2 chips. You forgot about mobile kepler or purposely ignored it.


If 7990 is anything like 5970 it will be a winner in my eyes. Dual 7970 at 850MHz that has similar overclocking headroom to 2x7970 and priced 50% more just like 5970 was priced in relation to 5870. At 700$ it would be an awesome value just like 5970 was. Is anyone else waiting for such a card? If they do that I'm gonna but 2 of them instantly.

 

[3DVagabond]

2 chips. You forgot about mobile kepler or purposely ignored it.

Wasn't talking mobile chips from either brand. You are correct about there being two, but I don't think it adds to the discussion. I think it would end up more of a distraction. My point was I don't see the big "vengeance" that nVidia has come storming back with. Seems more like they're clawing their way into the 28nm arena.

 

[Arzachel]

2 chips. You forgot about mobile kepler or purposely ignored it.

You probably shouldn't have mentioned mobile Kepler, because everything about it screams horrid yields and constrained supply. Their high end is all rebadges, mid and low end is a mix of 40nm and 28nm cards.

 

[SirPauly]

I'm not talking about etailer listings. They've released one chip. There's the gk104 and nothing else.

nVidia has also released the GT 640m!

 

[SirPauly]

Of course it's not nVidia's fault. They're executing perfectly and the gods and the stars have both aligned against them and AMD is using fairy dust to make theirs. It must be that they are just holding back their other chips waiting for the perfect moment to pounce. Besides selling last years chips at 2/3 their previous price is always preferred to selling current product at a profit.

Another rationalization?

nVidia has offered lower than expected yields and constraint issues with 28nm. Since you're still raising points about profit or margin, this up coming conference call may be interesting to see what they are.

 

[Alaa]

I wish paying $1-2K would give us quality like witcher 2 rendered video not just extra AA.

 

[toutbeau]

Does it blend?

 

[SolMiester]

Wasn't talking mobile chips from either brand. You are correct about there being two, but I don't think it adds to the discussion. I think it would end up more of a distraction. My point was I don't see the big "vengeance" that nVidia has come storming back with. Seems more like they're clawing their way into the 28nm arena.

Well, I guess that's the thing about forums, everyone has an opinion!

 

[SirPauly]

Nvidia took great pains today to explain that the GTX 680 is not in limited supply due to supply constraints.
- they said the demand is higher than expected

The GTX 690 will be a hard launch, they also said today.

http://alienbabeltech.com/abt/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24809&start=20#p64960

 

[Arzachel]

Nvidia isn't having bad yields because they worked closely together with TSMC to make 28nm super awesome, except that they are having bad yields and low supply don't judge them, except that yields and supply is fine, there's just too much demand, except that TSMC doesn't offer per good die pricing anymore, boo hoo.

Cut the PR crap Nvidia and release the 660ti already so I know if I should skip this gen and wait until winter or not.

 

[Silverforce11]

http://alienbabeltech.com/abt/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24809&start=20#p64960

Isn't that entire quote the same thing? If you have higher demand (much higher) than expected and you are constantly out of stock... it therefore means your supply is pretty badly constrained, right?

Why is the supply bad? I can't see many options:

1. Did NV not book enough 28nm wafers? <- management issue, whoever is in charge should be fired.
2. NVs yields are terribad. <- duh, your CEO even admitted such during his conference calls.
3. Combination of the above. <- if it's both, NV is SOoL.
4. NV is always right, everyone else is wrong. <- whatever the PR dudes are smoking, keep it up.

 

[SirPauly]

Nvidia isn't having bad yields because they worked closely together with TSMC to make 28nm super awesome, except that they are having bad yields and low supply don't judge them, except that yields and supply is fine, there's just too much demand, except that TSMC doesn't offer per good die pricing anymore, boo hoo.

Cut the PR crap Nvidia and release the 660ti already so I know if I should skip this gen and wait until winter or not.

Imho,

I don't remember nVidia saying that at all. I do recall lowering margin guidance from around 51 percent to 49 percent. Also recall them saying that 28nm as a whole may be constrained and have a desire for many more wafers. This is probably why there may be a mix of 40nm and 28nm product sku's 'till maybe the third or fourth quarter of this year -- that is probably the time-line, where margins may be back up to 51-52 percent and maybe a complete line of 28nm product as 40nm may be phased out or EOL.

 

[SirPauly]

Isn't that entire quote the same thing? If you have higher demand (much higher) than expected and you are constantly out of stock... it therefore means your supply is pretty badly constrained, right?

Why is the supply bad? I can't see many options:

1. Did NV not book enough 28nm wafers? <- management issue, whoever is in charge should be fired.
2. NVs yields are terribad. <- duh, your CEO even admitted such during his conference calls.
3. Combination of the above. <- if it's both, NV is SOoL.
4. NV is always right, everyone else is wrong. <- whatever the PR dudes are smoking, keep it up.

nVidia never said 28nm yields are terrible -- they basically said, lower than expected and lowered margin guidance from around 51 percent to 49 percent.

 

[Silverforce11]

In any competitive industry, if you are producing something thats "worse than expected" or your production capability is "lower than expected", it's pretty damn terrible. Unless you don't like to make $$.

Plus, he's in an official presentation, the CEO of a large company even saying such words like "yields lower than expected" is already a giant hint that things are doing bad. BAD.

If you want to call me extremist (lol) for stating the blatant obvious so be it. But you can believe NV PR all you like, all these "high demand" not being met = $$ not being earned.

 

[KompuKare]

Isn't that entire quote the same thing? If you have higher demand (much higher) than expected and you are constantly out of stock... it therefore means your supply is pretty badly constrained, right?

Why is the supply bad? I can't see many options:

1. Did NV not book enough 28nm wafers? <- management issue, whoever is in charge should be fired.
2. NVs yields are terribad. <- duh, your CEO even admitted such during his conference calls.
3. Combination of the above. <- if it's both, NV is SOoL.
4. NV is always right, everyone else is wrong. <- whatever the PR dudes are smoking, keep it up.

I'm sure it's point 4 though. Explains everything because they are always right, failing substrate was all due to people holding their cards/laptops wrong and anyone who says otherwise is part of wide-reaching conspiracy...