nVidia GT300's Fermi architecture unveiled: 512 cores, up to 6GB GDDR5

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Kakkoii

Senior member
Jun 5, 2009
379
0
0
Originally posted by: lavaheadache

While I'm excited about this sure to be beastly video card' I'm rather annoyed with intent of this leak.

One word came to mind, desperation. Nvidia might have well stated something like this. "please folks, remain calm with your credit cards in your wallets. Don't waste any of your available credit on an inferior hd5870 because you will need all probably need to ask for a one time credit increase at the time of fermi release."

I imagine by the time this behemoth (and I mean that in regards to size, performance, features..etc, etc) gets released, an X2 version and possibly some kind of hd5890 will be ready to go much like the x1900 came out to put some whoop ass on the 7800 GTX 512.

As a neutral consumer/enthusiast, I sure an getting awfully tired of nvidia and they're constant strategies/antics they play on us lab mice.

I wouldn't really call it desperation. GTC is Nvidia's big event. It's not like they called a random press event right after ATI and announced Fermi to crash their party. GTC is the obvious time for them to show it off. They know people want to see what they're cookin so buyers can make informed decisions. No doubt they have been planing to show it off at GTC for at least months now.

Sure there's probably a bit of wanting to rain on ATI's parade in the back of their heads, but what company wouldn't be thinking that about their rivals at least a bit.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,063
2,277
126
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The board they were showing had a single 8 pin, I don't pay enough attention to power draws to worry about that too much, just pointing out an observation(I would assume if it was <200W it would require multiple plugs?).

For whatever reason, there was a plug on the end of the card and if you saw another view of it, there was a 6-pin plug on the top of the card too (thread at XS shows this). I'm not sure why they would put it in 2 different places (maybe the HPC market needs it like that?).
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Originally posted by: Griswold

PC gaming is a shrinking market whereas GPGPU/HPC is where the beef is at in the future.
No it isn?t; PC gaming is actually growing but most of the time revenue isn?t tracked properly, namely that of digital distribution and MMO subscriptions.

Not claiming shens or nothing, but it begs the question - if, as you claim, the data are in error because the revenue isn't tracked properly, then how would you know that the data are in error by an amount that would cover the delta necessary to portend a growing market instead of a shrinking one?

It could still be shrinking, just at a lesser rate than the available data suggests. Right?
 

alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
2,425
0
76
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker


Larrabee is in order and requires heavy vectorization to get decent performance. You aren't going to get very much to run decently on it without some work.

that's why thread scheduling is intended to be done in software. who cares if each tiny little thread is in-order? that's how you do it with SIMD anyway. thread dispatch is not necessarily in-order, however.

you may have to recompile but not a complete re-write. the larrabee compiler is supposed to introduce some autoparallelization techniques; there are a few intel pdfs worth reading on that. not everything has to be a vector but that would be ideal. there are some new scalar instructions that work with larrabee too (will you get 96 threads out of it? no, but you'll get more than the one you started with).

My point is if they are shipping a $200-300 1.0 DP tflop x86 part in less than a year, that doesn't necessarily put them behind nvidia or AMD even if nvidia is ready in 3 months.
 

alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
2,425
0
76
The PC games market is slowly subsiding due to piracy and far, far higher sales in the console market, however it is far from being snuffed out completely. Even if, one day, PC game development were to stop cold (very, very unlikely), we are now at the point where nVIDIA/AMD's design strategies are very unlikely to change. We now have console GPUs and GPGPU to thank for the double-your-shaders every year cadence because the same microprocessors we use for our games are derived for use in consoles in HPC clusters. this is lucky for us and synergistic consolidation for them due to the inherent flexibility of stream processing.

even if PC's don't get any more "exclusive" titles, crytek has shown how their engine can scale down just as well as it can scale up, and that is the kind of thing we're likely to see more of in the future. We don't need exclusives, we just need something that we can crank up the settings on.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
I'm pretty sure PC gaming is dying. It's not going to ever disappear completely, but you'll eventually stop seeing blockbusters like Crysis on it exclusively. PC gaming is primarily Wow and flash games. People play those games more than every other PC game combined and that's just the direction the games are heading in. Counter Strike and TF2 are the most popular non-Wow "real" PC games and their numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to the people that play Halo 3 online. Once Wow or a Wow replacement comes to console(Not if, it's a when), it(MMOs) will seriously begin diminishing on the PC and all that will be left is flash games and console ports from developers who bother to make them.
 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
5,664
0
0
Originally posted by: dguy6789
I'm pretty sure PC gaming is dying. It's not going to ever disappear completely, but you'll eventually stop seeing blockbusters like Crysis on it exclusively. PC gaming is primarily Wow and flash games. People play those games more than every other PC game combined and that's just the direction the games are heading in. Counter Strike and TF2 are the most popular non-Wow "real" PC games and their numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to the people that play Halo 3 online. Once Wow or a Wow replacement comes to console(Not if, it's a when), it(MMOs) will seriously begin diminishing on the PC and all that will be left is flash games and console ports from developers who bother to make them.

Because eh, you say so? Nvidia, Intel, AMD/ATI, all their investors, will simply laugh at you. There are billions of dollars riding on the life of pc-gaming and the need for discrete videocards. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being poored into R&D, and yet here you are, telling us Nvidia, Intel and AMD are wasting their money. Funny...
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
I'm pretty sure the PC gaming market is NOT dying... There are plenty of games out or coming up which I'm interested in. WRT the gt300, it's obvios like I've mentioned before that NV is shifting the focus away from gaming HW towards GPGPU HW. Is that a good or bad idea, only time will tell, but what it really means is the gt300 will have even more transistors which go unused in games, like all those INT calculation unints. Last card which followed this design was the Geforce FX with a split INT/FP architecture, and we all know how THAT turned out. It seems to me like NV will once again have a huge chip, whose gaming performance is not up to its specs and price.
 

alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
2,425
0
76
there are no more transistors that will go unused in games than there were with GT200; in fact far fewer will go unused with GT300. nvidia now has two independent thread dispatchers per TPC to ensure that as many shaders as possible are busy. the GT200 shader had had two ALUs and an FPU, and no one complained then, why are you complaining now? I will grant you that GT200 did not provide the 200% boost from G80 that we had hoped, but that is because clocks were so damn low.

nvidia was vested in CUDA from the moment G80 launched. Those ALUs aren't going anywhere and raster performance is not being compromised because of it. Raster performance isn't being compromised in any way because there is no significant die area that is wasted to give the card GPGPU flexibility. If anything, it is the other way around. From the GPGPU standpoint, nvidia is wasting transistors on ROP and TMU, but they will never do away with that because they never intend to give up their dominance in 3D. you should re-read anand's article because you have no reason to complain or even project about GT300's performance due to the ALUs. They will not go unused and they will be threaded far more efficiently than GT200. On top of 384-bit GDDR5? and you are worried about rendering performance? Can you nail down exactly what aspect nvidia cut corners on?

as far as i can tell, they went all out, in every possible way, and that's why they're 4-5 months behind.
 

scooterlibby

Senior member
Feb 28, 2009
752
0
0
I don't think its dying. More like it is in a lull until the console refresh. I'm an admitted sucker for eye candy and I hate the relative stagnation due to console ports.
 

scooterlibby

Senior member
Feb 28, 2009
752
0
0
Oh shit I didn't string off a bunch of figures and bold parts of my argument. Please tear me to shreds!
 

scooterlibby

Senior member
Feb 28, 2009
752
0
0
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Originally posted by: Griswold

PC gaming is a shrinking market whereas GPGPU/HPC is where the beef is at in the future.
No it isn?t; PC gaming is actually growing but most of the time revenue isn?t tracked properly, namely that of digital distribution and MMO subscriptions.

Not claiming shens or nothing, but it begs the question - if, as you claim, the data are in error because the revenue isn't tracked properly, then how would you know that the data are in error by an amount that would cover the delta necessary to portend a growing market instead of a shrinking one?

It could still be shrinking, just at a lesser rate than the available data suggests. Right?

Delta check, snap! :)
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Originally posted by: dguy6789
I'm pretty sure PC gaming is dying. It's not going to ever disappear completely, but you'll eventually stop seeing blockbusters like Crysis on it exclusively. PC gaming is primarily Wow and flash games. People play those games more than every other PC game combined and that's just the direction the games are heading in. Counter Strike and TF2 are the most popular non-Wow "real" PC games and their numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to the people that play Halo 3 online. Once Wow or a Wow replacement comes to console(Not if, it's a when), it(MMOs) will seriously begin diminishing on the PC and all that will be left is flash games and console ports from developers who bother to make them.

Because eh, you say so? Nvidia, Intel, AMD/ATI, all their investors, will simply laugh at you. There are billions of dollars riding on the life of pc-gaming and the need for discrete videocards. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being poored into R&D, and yet here you are, telling us Nvidia, Intel and AMD are wasting their money. Funny...

There's way, way, way more evidence to support my claim than there is to support the idea that it is either not dying or is increasing in traction. It's not because I say so, and I'm not saying so just because(It's the last thing I want). I'm saying so because after all of the reading I've done it's pretty clear.

You do realize that ATI and Nvidia make the graphics chips in the consoles right? They also make cards for professional work. High end PC gaming is a VERY tiny niche. AMD cares infinitely more about how well their 4670 and lower cards sell than they do their 4870s. Same with Nvidia and their 9600GTs and such.

Revenue for PC games has consistently gone down year by year by year while console revenue has gone up by even more each year, this is a fact. The quality of games available on the PC year by year has gone down as well. This is an opinion but not one that only I hold. When is the last time an exclusive and good game came out for the PC?

Here is just one article: http://www.industrygamers.com/...-who-killed-pc-gaming/

If you want more, try this:

Link
 

alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
2,425
0
76
PC gaming isn't a tiny niche. it's shrinking, but give it a little credit. far more consumer cards are sold in the marketplace than GL or Quadro.

nvidia's revenue starts from tesla<quadro<nforce<geforce.

When they are making more money from ION/nForce than geforce cards, you can finally say that PC gaming is a tiny niche.
 

imported_Shaq

Senior member
Sep 24, 2004
731
0
0
That who killed PC gaming article only tracks retail sales so it is not accurate. It is probably still around the $1.4 if you count online sales and MMO's. Actually it may be at its highest point ever because I thought WOW was $1 billion by itself.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
PC Gaming excluding MMOs and flash games is indeed a tiny niche if you compare it to the number of people that play console games.

I already stated previously that MMO is pretty much the only highly successful genre for PC gaming right(that and flash/indie games) now and that is only because a viable console alternative doesn't exist yet. When it does, the transfer will happen. Consoles are cheaper, longer lasting, and much easier to use, everyone knows this. MMOs being taken to consoles will be no different, just a matter of time. Besides Valve and Blizzard, who makes good PC games anymore? How long will they keep making PC games when they know they will make more money on the console?
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,700
406
126
Originally posted by: dguy6789
PC Gaming excluding MMOs and flash games is indeed a tiny niche if you compare it to the number of people that play console games.

PC gamers are more demanding than console gamers.

The PC gaming market is a lot more mature. A game that lasts 20-30 hours for a PC is quite a crappy investment.

MMOs and games that have great multiplayer component and especially if they can support egaming will be big. The con is that you need to be the best game out there and not a crappy game that will still sell 1 million copies because it shares the name with some movie.

The console, while far from being a market only for kids, is way more a market for kids than a PC is - PC gaming is a lot more expensive with constant graphic cards updates and occasionally CPUs update. Console you keep it for years and throw a game or 2 at your kids so they shut up when you arrive from work exhausted and just want to close your eyes for 5 minutes.


I already stated previously that MMO is pretty much the only highly successful genre for PC gaming right(that and flash/indie games) now and that is only because a viable console alternative doesn't exist yet. When it does, the transfer will happen. Consoles are cheaper, longer lasting, and much easier to use, everyone knows this. MMOs being taken to consoles will be no different, just a matter of time. Besides Valve and Blizzard, who makes good PC games anymore? How long will they keep making PC games when they know they will make more money on the console?

I very doubt Blizzard feels the need to shift to consoles. Additionally they don't have to pay any fees to console makers.

Aside from MMOs, RTS especially the ones with egaming and egaming FPS still are a lot better in the PC.

Yeah, because the consoles aren't littered with frigging crappy games that if were PC only would sell crap.
 

alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
2,425
0
76
All of you seem to have this belief that the sales of PC games correlates to the sales of high performance GPUs. The amount of game sales may have declined due to piracy, but the amount of games that PC gamers play has increased for this same reason, and since you can't download a high-performance GPU over the internet, that is what they spend money on, and will continue to spend money on. A huge percentage, possibly even a majority of gamers do not pay for their games or any software.

likewise, nvidia doesn't require games to be in high demand in order for their gaming GPUs to be in high demand, because they are not directly related. As long as there is a demand for performance GPUs, they will continue to produce them, games or not.
 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
5,664
0
0
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Originally posted by: dguy6789
I'm pretty sure PC gaming is dying. It's not going to ever disappear completely, but you'll eventually stop seeing blockbusters like Crysis on it exclusively. PC gaming is primarily Wow and flash games. People play those games more than every other PC game combined and that's just the direction the games are heading in. Counter Strike and TF2 are the most popular non-Wow "real" PC games and their numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to the people that play Halo 3 online. Once Wow or a Wow replacement comes to console(Not if, it's a when), it(MMOs) will seriously begin diminishing on the PC and all that will be left is flash games and console ports from developers who bother to make them.

Because eh, you say so? Nvidia, Intel, AMD/ATI, all their investors, will simply laugh at you. There are billions of dollars riding on the life of pc-gaming and the need for discrete videocards. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being poored into R&D, and yet here you are, telling us Nvidia, Intel and AMD are wasting their money. Funny...

There's way, way, way more evidence to support my claim than there is to support the idea that it is either not dying or is increasing in traction. It's not because I say so, and I'm not saying so just because(It's the last thing I want). I'm saying so because after all of the reading I've done it's pretty clear.

You do realize that ATI and Nvidia make the graphics chips in the consoles right? They also make cards for professional work. High end PC gaming is a VERY tiny niche. AMD cares infinitely more about how well their 4670 and lower cards sell than they do their 4870s. Same with Nvidia and their 9600GTs and such.

Revenue for PC games has consistently gone down year by year by year while console revenue has gone up by even more each year, this is a fact. The quality of games available on the PC year by year has gone down as well. This is an opinion but not one that only I hold. When is the last time an exclusive and good game came out for the PC?

Here is just one article: http://www.industrygamers.com/...-who-killed-pc-gaming/

If you want more, try this:

Link

See, you clearly assume way to much. Yes ATI makes the gpu's for XBOX 360's, in fact total amount of gpu's made for the xbox 360 accounts for 36% of their total gpu's sold. Revenue income because of that 36% of total gpu's sold? Take a wild guess? 6%

Not so important. And how do you know AMD cares infinitely more about how well their 4670 sells then their 4870's? I'd almost dare say that margins on higher-end parts are so much higher, that the mainstream parts (which the HD 4850 and HD 4870 have been for quite some time) are equally important. Hence AMD's sweetspot strategy. To much assumptions, to little to back it up ...
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Originally posted by: dguy6789
I'm pretty sure PC gaming is dying. It's not going to ever disappear completely, but you'll eventually stop seeing blockbusters like Crysis on it exclusively. PC gaming is primarily Wow and flash games. People play those games more than every other PC game combined and that's just the direction the games are heading in. Counter Strike and TF2 are the most popular non-Wow "real" PC games and their numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to the people that play Halo 3 online. Once Wow or a Wow replacement comes to console(Not if, it's a when), it(MMOs) will seriously begin diminishing on the PC and all that will be left is flash games and console ports from developers who bother to make them.

Because eh, you say so? Nvidia, Intel, AMD/ATI, all their investors, will simply laugh at you. There are billions of dollars riding on the life of pc-gaming and the need for discrete videocards. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being poored into R&D, and yet here you are, telling us Nvidia, Intel and AMD are wasting their money. Funny...

There's way, way, way more evidence to support my claim than there is to support the idea that it is either not dying or is increasing in traction. It's not because I say so, and I'm not saying so just because(It's the last thing I want). I'm saying so because after all of the reading I've done it's pretty clear.

You do realize that ATI and Nvidia make the graphics chips in the consoles right? They also make cards for professional work. High end PC gaming is a VERY tiny niche. AMD cares infinitely more about how well their 4670 and lower cards sell than they do their 4870s. Same with Nvidia and their 9600GTs and such.

Revenue for PC games has consistently gone down year by year by year while console revenue has gone up by even more each year, this is a fact. The quality of games available on the PC year by year has gone down as well. This is an opinion but not one that only I hold. When is the last time an exclusive and good game came out for the PC?

Here is just one article: http://www.industrygamers.com/...-who-killed-pc-gaming/

If you want more, try this:

Link

MarcVenice, dguy6789, unfortunately we can't really rely on businesses maintaining a given strategy as being an indicator of the health of that business. Not with confidence at least. Look what happened to every player (sans IBM) in the risc HPC marketspace over the past 10yrs.

DEC was a behemoth, a legend in their technology prowess as well as design. Gone, despite spending their billions to avoid that fate.

Cray, gone. SGI, gone. MIPS, gone. (their logo/business name has been recycled by their subsequent buyers, but the point is all these guys hinged their fate on their business model and despite spending their millions and billions it did nothing to stem the fact their business segment was dying, fast, faster than they could evolve and outpace.

So I don't for a moment want to assume that just because Nvidia, AMD, and Intel are all pumping millions and billions into chasing a PC gaming industry that this is proof a PC gaming industry is viable and has vitality.

That said, if it does die then for sure it won't be for a lack of investment by these guys. And if it does die then it probably means it will be replaced by something that really is superior anyways, whether we want to accept that or not. (the customers of risc hardware weren't necessarily thrilled to see their long-standing vendor house disappear either, but that's progress)
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
I thought it was common knowledge that their $100 and lower cards sold orders of magnitude higher numbers than their flagship cards. It's not even close. Their flagship cards are more marketing tools than anything else. Just like Intel's Extreme Edition processors. It has always been this way for as long as I've been an enthusiast.

Indeed, I'm not saying I know for certain that PC gaming is dying. It's just what seems to be happening based on my observations.

I don't disagree that the PC is largely a superior platform for multiple genres, but every genre is still possible on consoles.
 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
5,664
0
0
Originally posted by: dguy6789
I thought it was common knowledge that their $100 and lower cards sold orders of magnitude higher numbers than their flagship cards. It's not even close. Their flagship cards are more marketing tools than anything else. Just like Intel's Extreme Edition processors. It has always been this way for as long as I've been an enthusiast.

Indeed, I'm not saying I know for certain that PC gaming is dying. It's just what seems to be happening based on my observations.

I don't disagree that the PC is largely a superior platform for multiple genres, but every genre is still possible on consoles.

You're forgetting something, not long ago flagship cards would cost 600 dollars or even more. Nowadays you can buy a very good performing part at 149/199 dollars. Those cards will probably sell less then $99 cards, but even if they sell half as much, the higher margins will still make up for a lot of it, meaning that price-segment is equally important.

As for HD 4870X2, or GTX295 and heck, even GTX285, are marketing tools.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
Anand extrapolated this number by assuming 40% more transistors then Cypress will inexplicably result in a 40% bigger diesize.

True, given the amount of die space dedicated to cache it could very well end up smaller then that.

And they did NOT take 66% of the market with gt200, they took 66% of the total market

They took 66% with the last generation, the G92 parts were their mid range and low end offerings for last gen.

100%
OS needs I/O subsystem, file subsystem, interrupts, ...
Are they present in Cuda or OpenCL? I don't believe they have such libraries.

You can create the libraries, noone is saying that there is an OS ready to go right now.

No it isn?t; PC gaming is actually growing but most of the time revenue isn?t tracked properly, namely that of digital distribution and MMO subscriptions.

Outside of MMOs PC gaming is in a torrid state of decline. You don't need to rely on retail sales, you can easily check the financial results of the publishers. Excluding MMOs PC gaming is going to be lucky to clear $1Billion in revenue this year. By way of comparison, Wii Fit, a singular game, has made a bit over $2Billion to date. It is true if you include MMO subs the situation looks much better, with those included PC gaming should hit about $3Billion in total revenue this year, but the majority of that is WoW. Outside of WoW, PC gaming has been in free fall for several years now.

that's why thread scheduling is intended to be done in software. who cares if each tiny little thread is in-order?

If your tiny little threads are out of order you are looking at a ~90% reduction in performance, non vectorized would be an ~80% reduction. So if you want 2% of potential performance then yes, you don't need to modify code.

but you'll eventually stop seeing blockbusters like Crysis on it exclusively.

The fact that Crysis is a blockbuster for the PC is telling. To date Crysis has sold ~1.5Million units over the course of roughly two years. Halo:eek:DST sold 2.2 million copies, in a day. The PC platform can't justify the development costs to keep up anymore, that is why we are increasingly seeing console ports :(

See, you clearly assume way to much. Yes ATI makes the gpu's for XBOX 360's, in fact total amount of gpu's made for the xbox 360 accounts for 36% of their total gpu's sold. Revenue income because of that 36% of total gpu's sold? Take a wild guess? 6%

I would have to assume that wherever you got those numbers from is way, way off. The Wii has outsold the 360 by ~2:1 overall since launch, and I have to guess that ATi sold at least a couple of graphics cards to PC users.

Indeed, I'm not saying I know for certain that PC gaming is dying. It's just what seems to be happening based on my observations.

Revenue for PC gaming outside of MMOs is in a rapid state of decline, you just need to look at publishers financials to see this. Take Activision last quarter. WoW revenue was $400 million- stellar to be certain. All of the rest of their PC games combined was $41Million. About what one console title did for them in one week this quarter on the console side. This is where the major problem for PC gaming is, even if their is still a market there, can it honestly support development budgest exceeding $10Million per title for a AAA offering? With revenue as low as it is, the only way we are reasonably going to see titles with top tier production values are going to be ports, and the ports are going to be limited to what the consoles can do(which will increasingly make people wonder why they bother keeping a gaming PC up to date- particularly when the consoles keep dropping in price). Obviously those of us who won't give up our KB/Mouse will still buy the PC version when we can, but it is a cycle that is going to be hard to get out of.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Revenue for PC gaming outside of MMOs is in a rapid state of decline, you just need to look at publishers financials to see this. Take Activision last quarter. WoW revenue was $400 million- stellar to be certain. All of the rest of their PC games combined was $41Million. About what one console title did for them in one week this quarter on the console side. This is where the major problem for PC gaming is, even if their is still a market there, can it honestly support development budgest exceeding $10Million per title for a AAA offering? With revenue as low as it is, the only way we are reasonably going to see titles with top tier production values are going to be ports, and the ports are going to be limited to what the consoles can do(which will increasingly make people wonder why they bother keeping a gaming PC up to date- particularly when the consoles keep dropping in price). Obviously those of us who won't give up our KB/Mouse will still buy the PC version when we can, but it is a cycle that is going to be hard to get out of.

That's pretty sad. The writings on the wall, though.

One question too, is there a console version of "The Sims 3"?
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
No it isn?t; PC gaming is actually growing but most of the time revenue isn?t tracked properly, namely that of digital distribution and MMO subscriptions.

Outside of MMOs PC gaming is in a torrid state of decline. You don't need to rely on retail sales, you can easily check the financial results of the publishers. Excluding MMOs PC gaming is going to be lucky to clear $1Billion in revenue this year. By way of comparison, Wii Fit, a singular game, has made a bit over $2Billion to date. It is true if you include MMO subs the situation looks much better, with those included PC gaming should hit about $3Billion in total revenue this year, but the majority of that is WoW. Outside of WoW, PC gaming has been in free fall for several years now.

BenSkywalker, I wonder if your comment there in the last sentence goes any distance to explain that Jon Peddie Research data from back in August where it showed just an utter collapse of the discete graphics card total market value around 2 yrs ago. (~$6B -> ~$3B)

Commensurate with devastation in the "performance" segment which has wasted awat to almost 1/4 what it used to be valued at years ago.

I'm talking about what is shown and discussed in this xbitlabs article.

Ever since I saw that report I have wondered just what happened at the end of 2007 to precipitate such a marked decline in the market size.