UKtaxman-
"What you've also got to consider is has this card got the power to push all those dx8 features? I'm beginning to wonder!"
Plenty of power. Check out any benches, even with the very early pre-release drivers running something at least close to a
CURRENT game(I think I'll start a thread on that topic after I post this as I don't want to take this thread off subject
). Not only that, remember that the Ultra completely blew away every other card on the market until the release of the GF3, by nearly
50% over the next fastest card in many cases. Besides that, the new features of the GF3 and their performance are for the most part, unrelated completely to anything that doesn't use them. It is like running through a high poly test that doesn't use hardware T&L and saying a hardware T&L board doesn't have enough power
"Why are these rendering cards a ton more expensive than 3D gaming cards? Are 3D gaming cards good at rendering scenes (say on LightWave or Maya)? Are there all-in-one cards, good rendering and gaming power?"
Marketshare. The high end pro 3D boards sell in very, very small numbers and they must recoup development costs which aren't any cheaper just because they don't sell as many
For a solid solution for both gaming and pro 3D nVidia based boards are right now the only offering that competes very well in both realms. As a matter of fact, SGI is currently offering nVidia hardware in their workstations. The difference between the GeForce and Quadro is drivers. Certain features are disabled by the drivers for the GF and the Quadro drivers are optimized for pro 3D where the GF series is aimed more at gaming. They both, however, work extremely well in each others realm. Turning a GeForce into a Quadro only requires resoldering a couple of transistors on your vid card.
"In fact the price to performance ratio with these new cards(not just nv20) is very poor compared to any prior card."
Actually, if you look at completely fillrate/bandwith limited situations(when using FSAA) the GF3 comes in less expensive per FPS then the Radeon 64MB or GF2. The GF2U dropping to ~$350 makes a very good deal, speaking strictly in terms of cost to performance.
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"The major premise to buying a GF3 this Spring are DX8 features."
Why? Because everyone is already running a GF2 Ultra? Because noone wants signficantly faster FSAA? Because people only play games from 1999? I'll say that with very early beta drivers the GF3, in a more current game, is outperforming my GF DDR to the tune of ~600%. I dropped $320 for my Herc DDR when I bought it new, and I need to upgrade soon.
"How many games are out right now, that you can truly say...."this game simply wouldn't be the same without this nVidia T&L unit." None."
And Half-Life is still a great game running in software. Once you get past the phase that a great game is still a great game even with inferior graphics, both of the titles that I play most often, Sacrifice and Giants benefit quite a bit using hardware T&L. Those are two GOTY award winners and to date easily the two best games visually that I have seen that have shipped.
"Only now, do we see a title or 2 take advantage of T&L (Giants), and even then, I'm not entirely sold on it being a difference maker."
Have you played the game? Rev threw up some numbers with his GHZ Athlon and hardware T&L was about 50% faster then software T&L running 1024x768 32bit. If you have played it then I'm sure you realize that it is one game that is in clear need of added performance.
"So, this is what we've got...We've got a card that, basically, will generally edge out an Ultra by a slim margin, outside of FSAA, in current games."
Current games? What benches have you seen for any game released within the last year? The one set I have seen had the GF3, without FSAA, running ~50% faster when everything was cranked, and even
that was not what I would call a current game(nearing a year old).
"If these features aren't going to be utilized until this Fall, what's the point of wasting $600 on it now?"
Have to agree with that, the highest MSRP I have seen to date is $520(Elsa IIRC), and it is a given that you can always do quite a bit better then MSRP when buying anything(the MSRP on the GF2 Ultra was still $500 a few weeks back and you could find them for less then $400). I would have to say that you are absolutely wasting money if you are going to spend $600 on this board.
"I make good $$, and could easily afford to buy one...but I'm not, because I know nVidia is ripping you off big time with this chip. Microsoft funded the whole damn thing, for starters. $200 million is a stunning amount of money for any R&D project....The once "exotic" 460 Mhz DDR is no longer hard to find, and you can bet it has come down in price as well."
MS did not fund the thing at all. The money given to nVidia was
advance payment for X-Box chips which nVidia still has in the bank until they start delivering the product(there is a nast clause in the contract if they can't deliver as they are obligated to). The "exotic" 460 MHZ DDR isn't on the GeForce3. The 4.3-4.4ns DDR SDRAM chips used on the Ultra have been replaced by 3.8ns DDR SDRAM ones, rated at ~525MHZ effective(though from what I have seen so far no OEM is going to default them at that, Herc would be my odds on favorite for that move). I wouldn't be shocked if people can push them into the 550MHZ effective range along with a decent core OC which would make the board even more impressive.
"If nVidia wanted to, they could easily put this thing in the GTS price range (when it was introduced)."
nVidia is currently pricing the chip at $70, you sure you want to blame them?
If you are happy with what you currently have, then of course don't upgrade. There are many benefits to those who do want to upgrade, particularly those, like me, who refuse to upgrade with every refresh cycle(which means I've been sitting on this DDR for over a year now). I'm not saying the GF3 will definately be it(that will catch a few of the regulars by surprise
), but neither the price and certainly not the performance of this board bother me.
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