Nvidia disables *all* dvd playback when non-Macrovision tv chip is present starting with 41.09's and above

[iZero]

A more skeptical person might think nVidia is using its drivers to force hardware upgrades.

 

[rbV5]

I would say because NVIDIA is the company that is changing the drivers so it will disable his ability to USE that hardware he paid for

Since there are drivers available from Nvidia that work, and the fact that Visiontek knew that macrovision protection was an issue long before GF3 boards were available, and that the proper components were also available for them...YOU can certainly say that, but it doesn't really make much sense. The fact is, if it were not for macrovision, we would likely not even have DVD drives in our computers.

Bottom line: Fairly recent drivers for a legacy product exist that work fine, coupled with the fact that other software works even with the newer drivers...and the fact that Visiontek was the manufacterer and apparently fitted the card with sub-standard components...... and the fact that the poster seems strangely reluctant to take his issue up with the proper party.....non-issue IMHO.

 

[Johnbear007]

Buy a radeon. Write to NVIDIA and tell them that this is WHY you are buying a radeon. AIT includes a great DVD player with their cards for free.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: rbV5
Not necissarily. Perhaps the design of the card itself contributes to the problem. GF3 cards are single head/ single DAC cards, enabling VGA output, disables TV output and vice versa. Maybe the output of the card is transparent to the software, since it can't find a supported TV chip it simply won't play. It doesn't know, nor care whether you are watching it via your monitor, or outputting to your TV...it simply won't play macrovision protected material.

Since there are drivers available from Nvidia that work, and the fact that Visiontek knew that macrovision protection was an issue long before GF3 boards were available, and that the proper components were also available for them...YOU can certainly say that, but it doesn't really make much sense. The fact is, if it were not for macrovision, we would likely not even have DVD drives in our computers.

Bottom line: Fairly recent drivers for a legacy product exist that work fine, coupled with the fact that other software works even with the newer drivers...and the fact that Visiontek was the manufacterer and apparently fitted the card with sub-standard components...... and the fact that the poster seems strangely reluctant to take his issue up with the proper party.....non-issue IMHO.

You are clearly more qualified then myself to understand this and I appreciate the help. This whole situation started because I tried to play a dvd and it didn't work. Through the process of trying to figure out why and to fix it I became aware of this situation.

My first goal was to fix it for myself which is done. Second to pass along what I have learned to others as I thought it might be useful which is done. Third was hoping that perhaps someone could get Nvidia to reconsider this change if they were indeed responsible for it and if it were not legal for them to do so which I have done what I know how to do by passing along the information so those more qualified can explore it or so if it matters to enough people that enough will express this desire to the appropriate party to fix it. I have posted a lot in this thread so don't want to clutter it up if this info is only of use to me so unless someone asks something direct to me I have said my peace.

The reason I concluded it were an issue with Nvidia and their drivers is just my lay person's conclusion. Macrovision states that if a tv encoder chipset is not Macrovision approved that tv out functionality must be disabled when playing copyrighted material. VisionTek is using a non-Macrovision approved tv encoder chipset which functions as sold as copyrighted material should not work when using the tv out by design. Nvidia's drivers disable both the tv out and all playback starting with the 41.09's but normal playback works fine with earlier drivers. Nvidia tells me that starting with the 41.09's they are disabling all dvd playback on those systems that have non-Macrovision tv encoder chipsets even if they are disbaled. That is why I reached the conclusion that the problem lies with Nvidia.

If what you say is correct that VisionTek's implementation is faulty then they are to blame. I don't have access to any other video cards and this is out of my element anyway so I have no way of exploring this. I have contacted VisionTek three times in just under two weeks without a reply so it isn't reluctance to to explore this with the proper party but rather I reached my conclusion based on the information I had and provided to me and believed I were contacting the proper party. Unless someone that has one of those two tv encoder chipsets on a video card other than the one I own I have no way of proving one way or the other if it is because Nvidia is disabling all playback or a faulty implementation of the non-Macrovison approved tv encoder chipset. Since Nvidia stated that they disabled all dvd playback when not using a non-Macrovision tv encoder chipset and not having the knowledge myself I took them at their word that they were the cause.

Unless someone with a different video card but with one of the affected tv encoder chipsets verifies that they are also affected I am still reluctant to believe that Nvidia is lying when they say they have disabled it in the drivers to comply with Macrovision. I don't believe Macrovision states to disable all playback only tv out playback so believed that it were Nvidia that were doing so and without grounds. I agree with the copy protection which Nvidia should be disabling playback when tv out is enabled so it is either the implementation or the drivers that are disabling all playback.

And none of the three dvd software programs I tried (PowerDVD, NVDVD, WinDVD) work with the 41.09 drivers and those two encoder chipsets when I tried them. I updated that info when I tried it for myself and believe Nvidia overlooked the fact of those two tv encoder chipsets when they told me NVDVD worked with the 41.09's. It does but not when you have a non-Macrovision approved tv encoder chipset.

Thanks everyone for the assistance in correcting my playback issue. If anyone else is affected the old drivers work as long as you never update them. If anyone that has a video card other than a VisionTek with a non-Macrovision approved tv encoder chipset can confirm one way or another whether you can playback dvds on the pc with the tv out disabled that will eliminate any question of whether it is a VisionTek or Nvidia issue. If it is strictly a VisionTek issue then of course correction should be explored through them solely. If anyone thinks it is an Nvidia driver issue and doesn't believe they legally can disable all dvd playback then they might only consider disabling all dvd playback when the tv out function is enabled if either enough people complain or someone with influence gets them to reconsider. No one is asking for Macrovision requirements to be ignored but rather properly implemented whether it be by VisionTek or Nvidia.

 

[Mooncalf]

Had to update this in case anyone is interested.

Have had further communications with VisionTek and Macrovision. Basically to sum up, Nvidia's drivers are the cause and Macrovision showed interest in getting them to fix this as has VisionTek expressed to Nvidia their desires for a fix. Macrovision contacted Nvidia and this is the extent of what I was told and then the apparent lack of self interest in trying to get it fixed.

Dear Anthony,

Thank you for your message. Macrovision is only concerned with TV out.

There is supposed to be no restriction on viewing DVDs on computer monitors. Usually there will be a mechanism that will disable the TV out if it is not Macrovision capable when a copy protected DVD is being played or in some cases I guess they disable the TV out whenever a DVD is being played.

I had not heard that anyone had disabled the computer screen because of
lack of copy protection in the TV out.

All the best,

Andrew

then

Hi Anthony,

I am in the process of talking with nVidia about this. Hopefully I will
get some feedback next week.

All the best,

Andrew

and now

Hi Anthony,

It turns out that nVidia had to change their drivers because of an error in the Windows Media player revision 8.1. If you use a different DVD player it should be OK. The issue would not exist on your computer if it had Macrovision's technology but apparently your graphics board has a non-Macrovision capable digital video encoder device.

After a lengthy discussion I have to tell you that I have sympathy for nVidia who have been forced into a situation they do not want to perpetuate. They have taken a position that makes them unpopular with a comparatively small number of their consumer customers while trying to protect the copy protection eco system.

Sorry I do not have a fix for your situation but please contact me again if I can help with anything related.

Best regards,

Andrew

Reading between the lines I can only assume that Nvidia told Macrovision that by fixing it it would then open up those who wish to bypass the copy protection on the tv out by using things like TVTool. Rather than opening up the possibility to those that wish to make vhs copies of dvds it is more in their self interest to punish everyone instead.

I wish this would garner more publicity but so far no one I have forwarded the info to seems willing to explore it. Even by Macrovision's admission this is not the way the copy protection laws are supposed to work.

In my best 'A Fish Called Wanda' impression, dis-appointed!

 

[Auric]

Wow, that sucks. Regarding sticking to previous drivers, that may work for some users up to a point. But inevitably a game will come along that reveals a driver defect. Then whatchagonnado -have to make a choice between your game or your DVD?!

It seems VisionTek is at fault for the encoder but Nvidia is at fault for disabling monitor playback. Perhaps they can solve that in the future? But you have already spent more time on it than you should have had to. I would just resign myself to replacing it. Afterall, a better card can be had for $50 and you could make up a chunk of that by hocking the Geforce -although it's value has now depreciated further and I would certainly feel obligated to inform a potential buyer of its shortcomings.

Regarding using a PC for DVD, besides space concerns there is actually nothing better for quality (assuming Radeon via DVI or Component) and the possible inconvenience is easily solved with a PC IrDA receiver and remote control software. There have been a large number of "stand-alone/set-top" DVD players sold and which are still being sold with known defective MPEG decoders. Search for "Chroma Bug". The nice thing about software is the fixability.

 

[DZip]

This is an example of why having the newest drivers for older hardware causes more harm than good. It seems that hardware manufactures change there firmware and drivers to remove benifits rather than give you more. I remember the Plextor firmware update that made it impossible to copy protected CD with firmware upgrade 1.07.

 

[AmdInside]

Originally posted by: DZip
This is an example of why having the newest drivers for older hardware causes more harm than good. It seems that hardware manufactures change there firmware and drivers to remove benifits rather than give you more. I remember the Plextor firmware update that made it impossible to copy protected CD with firmware upgrade 1.07.

Same here. I remember an old firmware on a DVD driver prevented me from playing different region DVD's. Oh well

As regards to this problem, I still don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Get Visiontek to replace the card for you since it is still under warranty. NVIDIA is simply enforcing Macrovision checks. The Geforce3 can switch from VGA to TV and back to VGA on the fly which is probably why it requires a TV encoder that supports Macrovision. Next time, just don't buy from Visiontek.

Don't mean to gang up on you but it seems you are going through a lot of unessary work. If it were me, I would just demand Visiontek to replace the card. Or I would sell the card and get a new card. Maybe you can find someone on this board who can trade your graphics card for another one that plays back DVD's.

Anyways, good luck man 😀

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: AmdInside

Originally posted by: DZip
This is an example of why having the newest drivers for older hardware causes more harm than good. It seems that hardware manufactures change there firmware and drivers to remove benifits rather than give you more. I remember the Plextor firmware update that made it impossible to copy protected CD with firmware upgrade 1.07.

Same here. I remember an old firmware on a DVD driver prevented me from playing different region DVD's. Oh well

As regards to this problem, I still don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Get Visiontek to replace the card for you since it is still under warranty. NVIDIA is simply enforcing Macrovision checks. The Geforce3 can switch from VGA to TV and back to VGA on the fly which is probably why it requires a TV encoder that supports Macrovision. Next time, just don't buy from Visiontek.

Don't mean to gang up on you but it seems you are going through a lot of unessary work. If it were me, I would just demand Visiontek to replace the card. Or I would sell the card and get a new card. Maybe you can find someone on this board who can trade your graphics card for another one that plays back DVD's.

Anyways, good luck man 😀

No worries and I appreciate any input and don't feel ganged up upon on getting Visiontek to replace the card. Addressing that, first I disagree that it is something needs to be replaced as it functions exactly as it is supposed to. Second, they agree and will not replace the card for the same reasons.

NVIDIA is simply enforcing Macrovision checks

That is the reason I as well as Visiontek disagree with you. Nvidia is not enforcing Macrovision checks. If they were the drivers would check to see if a non-Macrovision tv encoder chipset is present. Then if it were *and* enabled then they disbale all playback like it does currently. If it is *disabled* then the drivers are supposed to allow playback on the pc. It isn't Visiontek's, or the other card manufacturers that have a non-Macrovison tv chipset, to fix an issue that is caused by Nvidia's drivers not functioning properly. Even Macrovision states that this is contrary to their requirements are laws.

Sorry for keep repeating that but it keeps getting mentioned that Nvidia is just following Macrovision checks which is false and the point of all this. If they were everything would function as it should.

 

[AmdInside]

I tested the beta drivers posted on Warp2search version 44.61 on an older system with a Geforce card had a non Macrovision TV encoder and to my surprise, it plays DVD movies on the PC. It won't play on the TV though. Thought I would share it with you since it may take care of your Geforce3 DVD playback issue Mooncalf. It may be worth checking out.

Text

 

[WhiteKnight77]

One thing people have seem to have forgotten or don't know about is that VisionTek no longer makes nVidia based GFX cards. Yes they still "support" their old cards, but since switching to ATI based cards, they don't have much in the way of support for GF cards. Last I looked at the VisionTek site, all they listed for nVidia cards were drivers.

I had to revert to the 30.82 drivers for my GF3 (VisonTek) Ti 500 when I could not watch any videos on my brand new Lite-On DVD player (my PC has better sound than my stereo now) and even tried WinDVD and NVDVD after PowerDVD would not run the disk.

It's a shame nVidia bowed to pressure from Macrovision and has taken all way of watching a DVD on a PC with newer drivers for older hardware.

This is at least the 3rd thread on this subject since April when I was looking for help on playing a DVD.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: AmdInside
I tested the beta drivers posted on Warp2search version 44.61 on an older system with a Geforce card had a non Macrovision TV encoder and to my surprise, it plays DVD movies on the PC. It won't play on the TV though. Thought I would share it with you since it may take care of your Geforce3 DVD playback issue Mooncalf. It may be worth checking out.

Text

Thank you kindly for the update, very kind. I probably won't try them since their beta's but perhaps there is some hope that the next official release will function as these do.

 

[JUNNY002]

I try to use others DVD players QTIME,nvDVD,WINDOWS MEDIA NO ONE WORKS WITH THE NEW DRIVERS FOR NVIDIA THE ONLY DVD PLAYER THA WORKS IS POWERDVD V.3 NOT OTHERS....

THATS NOT FEAR FOR NVIDIA ITS ILEGAL....:|

 

[DAPUNISHER]

My ti4200 uses the Philips SAA7104E chip and the DVD playback is normal so no worries here 😀

 

[Davegod]

+1 "these drivers fuxed my DVD"

edit: none of powerdvd, wmp9 or nvdvd would work on 43.45 or 44.03, do on 30.82 (didnt try any others).

Next vid card = Radeon.



yeah yeah repost etc.

 

[WhiteKnight77]

Originally posted by: Davegod


Next vid card = Radeon.

The next video card will be an upgrade with a Macrovision approved chip unlike the GF3. A GF4 would have the approved chip too. a comparable chip from ATI to a GF3 would be disabled from DVD playback too AFAIK.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: WhiteKnight77

Originally posted by: Davegod


Next vid card = Radeon.

The next video card will be an upgrade with a Macrovision approved chip unlike the GF3. A GF4 would have the approved chip too. a comparable chip from ATI to a GF3 would be disabled from DVD playback too AFAIK.

Why would he go back to Nvidia? If he gets screwed over using a Nvidia card - regardless of whose fault it is Nvidia did bow down to pressure - and then they change it why should he purchase another card based on a nvidia chip when an alternative is just as good and even then some...

 

[JUNNY002]

I Fix My problem on nvidia card I change the drivers, I try the new beta drivers 44.65 and the problem gone thanks.

 

[jacktesterson]

I Live in a Dorm and watch all DVD's through my PC through TV-Out to my Flat Screen TV...saves space in a dorm room 🙂

 

[jacktesterson]

just go back to the old drivers

what could you possibly see in going to new drivers? improved 2-3 FPS? go to 30.82.....Or go to ATI, like I would. But really man stop worrying about what you see on paper and go with what you see on the screem. Your not going to notice any differences in going to the new driver.

That will solve all your problems.

 

[Davegod]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: WhiteKnight77

Originally posted by: Davegod


Next vid card = Radeon.

The next video card will be an upgrade with a Macrovision approved chip unlike the GF3. A GF4 would have the approved chip too. a comparable chip from ATI to a GF3 would be disabled from DVD playback too AFAIK.

Why would he go back to Nvidia? If he gets screwed over using a Nvidia card - regardless of whose fault it is Nvidia did bow down to pressure - and then they change it why should he purchase another card based on a nvidia chip when an alternative is just as good and even then some...

magomago got the point, its the attitude and the way it's done. If they'd said "ok we will force all manufacturers using nvida chipsets to use macrovision chip in future" (so much for competition), or only disabled DVD in a situation where the overwhelming majority of people affected would actually be pirates, thats about acceptable. But turning around after purchase and taking away key functionality which overwhelmingly only affects LEGIT users (searching for a fix for this issue turned up things to bypass Macrovision copy protection entirely, things legit users by definition dont want on their PC's) isnt acceptable - they dont even make blatant notice of it when downloading or installing the newer drivers. It is nividia's fault if they kill my DVD playback, because they allowed their liscensee's to use other chips.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: Davegod

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: WhiteKnight77

Originally posted by: Davegod


Next vid card = Radeon.

The next video card will be an upgrade with a Macrovision approved chip unlike the GF3. A GF4 would have the approved chip too. a comparable chip from ATI to a GF3 would be disabled from DVD playback too AFAIK.

Why would he go back to Nvidia? If he gets screwed over using a Nvidia card - regardless of whose fault it is Nvidia did bow down to pressure - and then they change it why should he purchase another card based on a nvidia chip when an alternative is just as good and even then some...

magomago got the point, its the attitude and the way it's done. If they'd said "ok we will force all manufacturers using nvida chipsets to use macrovision chip in future" (so much for competition), or only disabled DVD in a situation where the overwhelming majority of people affected would actually be pirates, thats about acceptable. But turning around after purchase and taking away key functionality which overwhelmingly only affects LEGIT users (searching for a fix for this issue turned up things to bypass Macrovision copy protection entirely, things legit users by definition dont want on their PC's) isnt acceptable - they dont even make blatant notice of it when downloading or installing the newer drivers. It is nividia's fault if they kill my DVD playback, because they allowed their liscensee's to use other chips.

If I am not mistaken (and Andrew from Macrovision stated this to me) but it is against both copyright laws and Macrovision requirements to force the disabling of all dvd playback if the tv out function is disabled. Both the law and Macrovision state that all dvd playback is only supposed to be disabled if both of the following are true, 1) video card contains a non-Macrovision approved tv encoder chipset and 2) the tv out function is enabled. Under that condition then all dvd playback is to be disabled.

nVidia, for reasons not forthcoming, has chosen to disable all dvd playback regardless on whether the tv out is enabled or disabled when a non-Macrovision approved tv encoder chipset is present and refuses to fix it stating that they are only doing so in order to comply with Macrovision. Macrovision themselves say that this is contrary to their requirements and after a conversation with nVidia came back and said they will have nothing further to do with the matter and sympathizes with nVidia for the unfortunate position they have been placed in (what that is I have no idea).