nVidia chipset with ATi issue? Myth?

[Android8675]

Update #2 (12/3/2004)
Problem Fixed

Summary: DFI Lanparty nF3 250Gb mobo does not like memory modules >512Megs that are non-ECC!
--- clip ---
For those of you just arriving (12/3/2004)
Yes, this problem is still occuring, current status is I'm going to replace the RAM now and see if my 1 stick of nonECC (generic) is the problem. Looking for recommendations, was thinking of a 512x2 kit, something like this:

Geil Ultra Series Value Dual Channel 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 w/ Blue Heatspreader - Retail

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-450&amp;depa=1">
Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 - Retail</a> (although not sure I want to spend $202 + ship)

or anything under $200, and now the messasge thread. Thanks for coming, you guys are the greatest.

--- Original Message ---

OK, desperation has set in.

I'm an EQ2 player, so I thought I'd update some of my hardware so I could enjoy some of the goodness of the new EQ2 (and Half Life 2), so I updated a basic AMD Athlon XP 1800+ system with a DFI Lanparty UT nF3 250Gb mobo with an AMD64 3000+ and a single gigabyte stick of PC3200 cheapo ram.

Already in the system, an ATi 9700 Pro (128meg) (which I'm still happy with), good IDE hard drives, and a sb Live! 5.1 plat card (I left if in there because it sounds better than the onboard audio.

Problem: Every graphic intensive game I've tried so far will randomly quit to desktop. No error message, just a quick drop. Now I've only tried this with EQ2 and Half-Life 2, but they crash exactly the same way. At first I thought it might be EQ2 (went through hell with tech support), but 2 programs doing the same thing seems odd. (I suspected a hardware problem from the beginning, but wasn't 100% sure)

So does anyone have any experience or knowledge of where I might get some answers or a possible fix for this problem?

No, I did not update the BIOS on the mobo. On the last mobo I flashed, I thought I had the wrong bios, so I restored the original bios and for some reason the board stopped working (had to exchange it).

wanted to give the info CPU-Z gives me for the ram, one thought is that the ram is the problem, I know some of these newer boards don't dig cheap ram, so here's what I see:

type - DDR-SDRAM
size - 1024MB
Channels - Single
Freq - 200.9Mhz
FSBRAM - CPU/10.0
CAS Late - 3.0 clocks
ras to cas - 3 clocks
ras precache - 3 clocks
cycle time - 8 clocks
bank cycle time - 12 clocks
dram idle timer - 16 clocks

Any help is appreciated, I'm not a man of a lot of money, I love the system if it would just stop crashing I'll be a happy camper.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Did you re-install the OS, install fresh, or neither?

 

[Tiamat]

Memtest that ram. also watch your voltages from you psu - if they are off by much or not.

 

[LTC8K6]

What does DXDIAG say under the display tab? Does it pass the tests?

 

[Android8675]

Did you re-install the OS, install fresh, or neither?

Both, originally I had WinXP sp2 installed, I had to run the WinXP setup again since the AMD64 mobo wouldn't start, I just chose to update the OS instead of a fresh install.

I had the crash, after some basic testing I thought I'd fresh install XP SP1 (which I did). Currently I have WinXP SP1, it's ghosted so I can restore it if I need to, so far all I've installed are drivers, directx, steam (HL2) and EQ2.

System has been doing the same thing since I started.

Memtest that ram. also watch your voltages from you psu - if they are off by much or not.

Ran memtest86, no errors. Could you elaborate a little on the PSU suggestion? I have a little util running that shows voltages, they don't seem off by more than a couple hundredths, but I'll have to double check tonight.

What does DXDIAG say under the display tab? Does it pass the tests?

Passed all tests.
--
Update: I put the latest bios on my mobo from DFI, I was playing HL2 last night and the game crashed. the ATi VPU recovery kicked in with an error, disabled hardware acceleration mode and told me to reboot to reset. So the ATi could be the culpurt. I'm tempted to slap in my old Geforce 4 ti4200 and see if it makes any difference. If this fixes the problem and is my only option I'll probably have to sell the mobo and get another one at a loss. it's too bad too, I really like this board, or I want to like this board.

Interestingly I played HL2 for another 2 hours with no crashes. I can't see how it could be fixed, I only updated the bios and it crashed after the update, but it did recover to an extent. Might of inadvertantly fixed it, but somehow I doubt it. I'll do EQ2 tonight when I get home for the real test.

Thanks in advance to everyone that responded. I love this site.

 

[Android8675]

Thinking now it might be my power supply, got a "POWMAX" 400W in there, think this is adiquate enough to power 2 HDs, 2 DVDs, my ATi 9700, and SB Live! Plat?

Is there an easy utility to test and make sure the PSU is delivering enough juice?

Thanks again,
A.

 

[tyanni]

Do a reinstall of Windows, but format this time. Installing A HDD with an existing copy of Windows on it into a new machine is a recipe for disaster.

 

[skiersteve]

What you can also try is disabling your AGP fast write in the bios, as well as putting you AGP speed down to 4X, not 8X or AUTO. Neither of those changes should affect actual performance, but they did help get another ATI card I was having the same issue with to work with Everquest 1/2 to run stable...

 

[Android8675]

Do a reinstall of Windows, but format this time. Installing A HDD with an existing copy of Windows on it into a new machine is a recipe for disaster.

I think I said somewhere that I did a reinstall originally, had the same problem I'm having now, so I did a clean install. no help. All the "basic" stuff, i've done already. reinstall, rip out everything but the video, and everything Sony suggested on their site including lower sound acceleration one notch, lowering AGP settings, and much much more. No help.

What you can also try is disabling your AGP fast write in the bios, as well as putting you AGP speed down to 4X, not 8X or AUTO. Neither of those changes should affect actual performance, but they did help get another ATI card I was having the same issue with to work with Everquest 1/2 to run stable...

Didn't try turning off fast writes from the BIOS (not positive if they are on or off right now), I have tried turning down the AGP settings.

It's been a couple weeks the crashes occur but are infrequent. I took out the SBLive and plat, unplugged one of the DVD drives and killed the UV lighting and 1 of the fans in my case.

Game randomly crashes. I run a voltage monitor while playing the game, my ATX+12v measurement dips to 11.50v while playing, another measurement for ATX+3.3v dips to 3.15v while playing, this is sending up alarms that my psu may in fact be the culprit, but I've no way to know if these kinds of voltage readings are normal, acceptable, or bad. Anyone who's a power expert know what's acceptable for the power supply to drop too under load, or should it not drop at all (which I suspect should be the case).

Sorry to bump such an old thread, and thanks, once again.

A.

 

[stevty2889]

I had a 400w powmax PSU. It took out my $180 motherboard. They are very generic and known to cause all kinds of problems. I would NEVER trust my system with a generic PSU again. I would definatly consider trying another PSU. Enermax and Antec both make good PSU's as well as several other companies, but Powmax is extremely generic.

 

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally posted by: stevty2889
I had a 400w powmax PSU. It took out my $180 motherboard. They are very generic and known to cause all kinds of problems. I would NEVER trust my system with a generic PSU again. I would definatly consider trying another PSU. Enermax and Antec both make good PSU's as well as several other companies, but Powmax is extremely generic.

On top pf what stevty2889 said, your drop to 11.50 on the 12 volt line is too much. Its suggesting exactly what you think .... your PSU can't keep up. As for your PSU taking out your MOBO .... beware, its possible! When that PSU goes, sometimes it sends a spike through the system that can take out several pieces of your hardware with it. Mobo, cpu, vid card are common victems to this. I'd replace it before you have a more expensive problem on your hands.

 

[Android8675]

Thanks everyone. I'm on my secondary computer until I can get the PSU replaced. Glad we could confirm my suspicions so I'm not blowing more cash on stuff I don't need.

Gonna go place an order at NewEgg tonight.

 

[Android8675]

Well, got the new power supply installed, I'm getting very stable voltage readings across the board. my ATX+12v reading is around 12.03, so it's much better than it was, but the damn system is still quitting out of games or crashing.

I've never been so dumb founded in all my life and i've been building systems since I upgraded my 386 to a 486.

So, here's some DXDiag output. I'm open to suggestions, and I'm too fustrated to remember what I have and have not tried, so throw it all at me. What would you suggest. At this point i'm thinking video card is the problem, but I have no idea why, the card as far as I know works fine, only thing I can think is that the nvidia chipset causes ATi cards to crash.

Any help is appreciated. The system is crashing less as I can play EQ2 for longer periods between crashes, but if I throw HL2 into 1280x1024 mode with lots of details I'll barely make it off the train before crashing.

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 12/1/2004, 01:20:40
   Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 1 (2600.xpsp2_gdr.040517-1325)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: NVIDIA
          Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+, ~2.0GHz
             Memory: 1024MB RAM
          Page File: 307MB used, 2154MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
    DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
  DirectX Files Tab: No problems found.
      Display Tab 1: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
          Music Tab: No problems found.
          Input Tab: No problems found.
        Network Tab: No problems found.

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
        Card name: RADEON 9700 PRO
     Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
        Chip type: RADEON 9700 AGP (0x4E44)
         DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
   Display Memory: 128.0 MB
     Current Mode: 1280 x 1024 (32 bit) (75Hz)
      Driver Name: ati2dvag.dll
   Driver Version: 6.14.0010.6490 (English)
      DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
 Driver Date/Size: 10/26/2004 20:35:58, 214528 bytes
      WHQL Logo'd: Yes
    Mini VDD Date: 10/26/2004 20:35:38, 820224 bytes
         Registry: OK
     DDraw Status: Enabled
       D3D Status: Enabled
       AGP Status: Enabled


-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
            Description: SB Live! Audio [D8E0]
 Default Sound Playback: Yes
 Default Voice Playback: Yes
            Driver Name: ctaud2k.sys
         Driver Version: 5.12.0001.0252 (English)
            WHQL Logo'd: Yes
          Date and Size: 7/19/2002 10:47:52, 837548 bytes
            Other Files: 
        Driver Provider: Creative
         HW Accel Level: Full
       Voice Management: Yes
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: Yes, Yes
               Registry: OK

Any help is appreciated.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Originally posted by: Android8675
I'm tempted to slap in my old Geforce 4 ti4200 and see if it makes any difference.

Have you done this yet?

 

[tshock22]

Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser

Originally posted by: Android8675
I'm tempted to slap in my old Geforce 4 ti4200 and see if it makes any difference.

Have you done this yet?

I second that. That would be my next step of testing.

Another thing to consider: Heat

Your new processor is giving your vidcard a lot tougher workout in HL2 than your older cpu. In fact, it's probably shifted the bottleneck of your system from the cpu to the gpu. With the vidcard gpu maxxed at 100% for a period of time, it's likely it could be overheating and dumping you back to the desktop. What I would do is remove the vidcard fan/heatsink and replace the thermal paste/pad with some new stuff. Also, verify the heatsink is void of any dust. Regardless of whether this is the real problem or not, it's a good maintenence procedure anyways.

Only other thing that comes to mind is to try different sets of nforce mboard chipset drivers. Maybe your current motherboard drivers are a bad match with the ati card.

Good luck..........

 

[Android8675]

Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser

Originally posted by: Android8675
I'm tempted to slap in my old Geforce 4 ti4200 and see if it makes any difference.

Have you done this yet?

Just did it, same problem.

Don't know what to do about a potential heat problem. I'm a little afraid to remove the heatsink from my radeon mainly because I can't figure out how to get the posts to release without distroying the posts that hold the heatsink to the board. There any how-to's for this?

Guess the next stop is the mobo drivers. currently running 5.10, guess I'll see if nvidia has any notes on the subject.

Anyone know anything about the particulars of this mobo with certain RAM? Are there ram configurations that could be causing this problem? I think I posted the ram info above. I'd probably have to purchase more ram if I wanted to test this. I don't have any other PC3200 ram other than the 1gig stick that's currently in this box.

Would PC2700 ram work ok on this board? if so I can try the 512 stick in my other box on this system.

 

[tshock22]

Originally posted by: Android8675

Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser

Originally posted by: Android8675
I'm tempted to slap in my old Geforce 4 ti4200 and see if it makes any difference.

Have you done this yet?

Just did it, same problem.

Don't know what to do about a potential heat problem. I'm a little afraid to remove the heatsink from my radeon mainly because I can't figure out how to get the posts to release without distroying the posts that hold the heatsink to the board. There any how-to's for this?

Guess the next stop is the mobo drivers. currently running 5.10, guess I'll see if nvidia has any notes on the subject.

Anyone know anything about the particulars of this mobo with certain RAM? Are there ram configurations that could be causing this problem? I think I posted the ram info above. I'd probably have to purchase more ram if I wanted to test this. I don't have any other PC3200 ram other than the 1gig stick that's currently in this box.

Would PC2700 ram work ok on this board? if so I can try the 512 stick in my other box on this system.

OK........so by testing the ti4200 we've narrowed it down that it's not the specific video card. You said you ran memtest86 and it passed, so i'm inclined to believe the memory is OK, but you can put the pc2700 ram in the box. There are either bios settings to force the memory to run at 166mhz, but my nforce3 250 board will autodetect the memory speed and you will should see it autoset to 166mhz when it posts. I would try some different forceware drivers for your MB. Try the ones that shipped with your MB.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Just scanned so forgive me if this has been done, but I would get that SBLive out of there, nuke all the bloatware and drivers for it and see if the problem persists.

 

[KevinH]

I have almost that exact same setup except I went with the X800 Pro. It's working like a charm for me. Likewise my old system was an NForce 2 board + 9700 Pro and that too went without a hitch.

I hope this helps you as here are the drivers I chose to use. Force ware drivers were stock. I disabled the onboard sound as that was giving me a hardlock with looping audio and replace it with the Hercules XP Game Theater. I used the latest Omega drivers from www.driverheaven.net (yeah I know that site sux guys ). Make sure Fast writes are turned off in your driver as they are On by default with the stock ATI drivers (I think this may be the culprit here). Shoot me a pm if you have any questions.

In regards to DaPunisher's opinion on the SBLive I would also agree with that with the caveat that you have another sound card to use. Personally the onboard audio has given issues to a lot of people. I have heard that certain bios updates have fixed this issue but if you could avoid using either altogether, that would be a good idea.

 

[Android8675]

Originally posted by: tshock22
OK........so by testing the ti4200 we've narrowed it down that it's not the specific video card. You said you ran memtest86 and it passed, so i'm inclined to believe the memory is OK, but you can put the pc2700 ram in the box. There are either bios settings to force the memory to run at 166mhz, but my nforce3 250 board will autodetect the memory speed and you will should see it autoset to 166mhz when it posts. I would try some different forceware drivers for your MB. Try the ones that shipped with your MB.

I was just about to go out and buy more ram, or order it online (can't beat newegg at any retail outlet).

I was scanning the DFI site and here's what they had listed for supported memory on the DFI board:

# Three 184-pin DDR SDRAM DIMM sockets
# Supports single channel (64-bit wide) memory interface
# Supports up to 3GB memory when using DDR333
Supports up to 2GB memory when using DDR400
# Supports PC2700 (DDR333) and PC3200 (DDR400)
DDR SDRAM DIMM
# Supports x8/x16, non-ECC, up to 512Mb DDR devices
# Supports unbuffered DIMM

Not sure if this means that 1Gig sticks have to be ECC, and since mine isn't I figured I'd plop down some money on a 512x2 set (recommendations welcome, trying to stay under $200).

I am currently running the nForce 4.27 drivers, and I also installed the drivers from the moboCD, no change there.

While memtest86 seemed to execute ok I still have my doubts. According to the DFI site this board will run with ram as slow as PC2100, so I might grab the ram from my secondary system and try it out, if I can get it to post. (single 512 stick of PC2100 I think, might even be PC2700)

Just scanned so forgive me if this has been done, but I would get that SBLive out of there, nuke all the bloatware and drivers for it and see if the problem persists.

Tried that once. I might try it again if it wasn't for the fact that the onboard sound, sounds aweful compaired to the Live.

Make sure Fast writes are turned off in your driver as they are On by default with the stock ATI drivers (I think this may be the culprit here). Shoot me a pm if you have any questions.

Tried fast writes on and off, didn't notice any difference although when off it does seem to crash less, so I left it off. Still crashes though.

Might just get the ram, if it's not that I can always resell the ram to someone else.

My head hurts.

 

[Android8675]

Looks like it was the Memory...

Found out my second box had a PC2700 stick of ram (512Megs), so I slapped it in there and proceeded to play HL2 for about 2 hours with no problems at all. I'm not throughly convinced so I'm gonna go hit EQ2 now for a while and see what happens.

Don't know if what the DFI site said was the problem or if the module is defective. It's odd that memtest86 didn't find any problems. Perhaps I'll run the test again and see what happens after a couple passes.

I put in an order for:
Geil Ultra Series Value Dual Channel 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 w/ Blue Heatspreader - Retail

If anyone can tell me why I should go with something else, I'm open to recommendations. I'm sure Newegg won't ship the package until monday.

(rant deleted)

Now that I flip through the manual, if I had saw that one line about the non-ECC up to 512Mb I probably could of saved myself a huge headache. Geezus Mary-H-Francis.

thanks again guys.

 

[KevinH]

Well...my advice didn't hit the nail on the head but I"m glad u're good to go .

 

[Android8675]

I'm just glad I can get back to messing around with lighting and maybe trying my hand at case modding. I slapped the 1gig stick in my secondary box and it works fine there, so I'm going to take the 512 from that box and upgrade my linux box and probably turn it into a HTPC, OR I'm going to build a MAME cabinet. Might as well have something good come out of all this.