nVidia CEO: We are a software company

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Barfo

Originally posted by: T2k
Nvidia is not making any serious money on software so far, nothing that would change its balance sheets.

Would you care to provide a link to back this claim?
It makes sense that Nvidia has higher profit margins with CUDA and Tesla apps than the Geforce line.

Strictly speaking they do not have any software product for sale, what should I back up...?

PS: unless you meant these "blockbuster" applications...

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: schenley101
I actually agree with Huang. normally to me, he seems full of bs, but Nvidia,s major advantage over ATi is its software integration and developer tools/relations. they make lots of effort to help developers make use of their hardware. also, with quadro, the support is amazing. if you have a problem, they give immediate attention, and help you solve the problem. with firegl/pro, the support is lackluster and not very fast at best.

AMD/ATI is working on its CPU/GPU fusion, just like Intel is busy with the same thing - Nvidia have no x86 license, no CPU architecture ergo no choice, they have to carve out their new market if they want to survive...

 

[BenSkywalker]

Strictly speaking they do not have any software product for sale, what should I back up...?

You aren't understanding his rather clearly explained point then. nVidia's revenue is driven by software- if all PC games stopped shipping, the PC workstation application market vanished and Larrabee popped up and dominated HPC performance, what source of revenue would nVidia have? By pushing software demands into territory that works well on their hardware, they help promote sales of their hardware. This has clearly been their driving force for quite a while now and has been readily apparent by their approach to the market. CUDA, PhysX, GPGPU in general- all things that push the industry into an area that nV is clearly dominant in at the moment. By driving the software into the direction that works best on their hardware, they advance their market importance considerably.

This is a markedly different strategy then AMD which is focusing on following the trends laid out by MS and trying to match up with them as well as possible in the most cost effective manner they can.

It is two very different approaches on the business end, and is one of the reasons it has been clear for a while now that programs like TWIMTBP are hugely important to nV while AMD tends to shy away from such activity. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, just pointing out the core difference in philosophical approach between them.

 

[akugami]

@T2K,

It's ok to hate Wreckage and the crap that he pulls. It's ok to hate nVidia. You are entitled to your own opinions. However, Wreckage is also entitled to his opinions.

When he posts something that makes sense or actually adds to the conversation, then give credit where credit is due. What you are doing is just the same type of crap he pulls.

Enough of the antics. You're only ruining your own reputation. If you want to refute what they say, then do so.




As for the interview, I actually agree with a lot of what Huang is saying if you take his obvious bias into context. I do disagree with some of his reasonings but I can understand where he is coming from.

I think jiffylube1024 put it best by saying that nVidia is not yet a software company but that's where they want to transition to. Sort of like Apple where they tie you in to their software and tools to sell their hardware.

I've always felt that nVidia would be best served going forward by moving to an iTunes+device type model for the future. I've posted to this effect in past threads. The reason is because nVidia and ATI's days are numbered as far as making a large profit in the GPU sector catering to gamers.

It's like CPU's and how many low end laptops and even netbooks are good enough for the average computer user. It does everything they need/want. By the same token, we'll soon reach the milestone in the GPU sector where even the lower end discrete GPU's will be good enough for most gamers. Think of it as being similar to the Wii and a PS3 if you will. Sure, the Wii is inferior graphically to the PS3 but it's good enough for most people.

While there are still decent strides being made in the quality and power of GPU's, there's going to be a day when the improvements will seem minor to the average gamer and that's when both ATI and nVidia will be in trouble. At least AMD/ATI can sell integrated x86+GPU solutions. nVidia does not have that luxury.

Another reason is, of course, Intel and AMD/ATI integrating GPU cores onto their CPU's. Pretty much close to hitting a system-on-a-chip solution. nVidia is going to lose a huge chunk (especially in the growing laptop sector) of revenue when that happens.

I understand why nVidia is pushing CUDA and GPGPU capabilities. It needs to tie specialty software into its hardware to always ensure that they can sell hardware. It makes good business sense for them to try this though I have mixed feelings about how well it will succeed as well as how nVidia has gone about it. I have zero problems with their CUDA efforts for GPGPU but the PhysX stuff has just seemed like one huge slap in the face to gamers.

*EDIT*

Just like to add that I'm actually looking forward to what comes from their Tegra efforts. I think this is actually an exciting prospect going forward.

 

[ronnn]

If nvidia doesn't get it together, they soon will be a vaporware company.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Here is the full interview for those who don't want to just focus/speculate on 1 small part of it.
http://www.chw.net/2009/10/chw...a-a-jen-hsun-huang/2/#

That is a good link!

The full interview is interesting, and it definitely puts his puzzling quote back into context. Jen-Hsun Huang is definitely outspoken on his company's philosophy, and everything else for that matter. He's also the #1 Nvidia Zealot, pouring a big glass of haterade on everything not Nvidia - Intel's Nvidia-esque chipset strategy, the Lucid Hydra chip, etc.
-----------

His comparison to Apple on being a software company in the guise of a hardware company is interesting but definitely not a great example to compare Nvidia with (at least not Nvidia today). First of all, Apple was considered a software company that makes money on hardware because of software like Mac OS X, iTunes, the simpe and easy to use iPhone interface, etc. Traditionally their big innovations are in software.

But then again, this trend has completely changed of late. What are Apple's big innovations of the past 5+ years? Their big innovations are things like the iPhone and iPod, as well as things like Apple TV that haven't really hit it big. Apple's other big innovations are now hardware design innovations, like the Macbook, Macbook Pro and Macbook Air, the iMac, etc.


Nvidia is overwhelmingly a hardware company; their innovations are in making fast and power efficient GPU's primarily, as well as chipsets. Their big hits were things like the Nforce 2 and Nforce 4 chipsets, the 68xx, 78xx, 88xx and GT(X) 2xx series of GPU's, the mobile GPU's and now Tegra. CUDA and PhysX (not even an Nvidia design originally) haven't really hit it big (yet). JHH's comments about introducing programmable shaders and fully programmable GPU's was an excellent point, but he makes it sound like every innovation from Direct X 7 to DX 11 was all Nvidia's idea!


I think JHH's comments reflect Nvidia of the future, not really Nvidia of today. In the future, Nvidia will be forced to embrace the software side of things, as their desktop chipset business is in jeopardy, and if they don't have the fastest/best priced GPU's, their GPU marketshare is in danger as well.

Huang's comment that "anyone can make [GPU/CPU/chipset] chips , it is really expensive but anyone can do it" is utterly absurd. By that logic, anyone can do anything if the right amount of money is thrown at the problem.

Compare the number of applications for GeForce 6&7 series cards to G80 and above. A DVD player, Pure Video Codec.

Are you kidding? NV never made more than chump change on these, let alone the bad taste they left when they tried to sell their encoder even after you bought their cards while ATI was giving away theirs for free of charge for their customers.

To hundreds of CUDA apps and more emerging all the time from scientific communities worldwide.

Neither did these ones...

I'd say Nvidia surely is evolving from a hardware only company to something substantially more. They are a GPU design company who has been working on software to run on them. Fermi is the next step in this process. To compare them to Apple isn't quite what I had in mind, because today in the PC/laptop area, Apple makes nothing but x86 shells and a nice OS to ride on them. In that respect (excluding Ipods/Iphones) they are a software only company. Tegra has entered the market and according to J. Huang, will be in many big players new smartphones in 2010. And Nintendo DS is pretty huge if Tegra is in there. Millions upon millions of them are sold every year. New models won't be an exception. And if Nintendo is using Nvidia's Tegra in it's new DS, there is a good chance Nintendo will utilize Nvidia GPU's in their next console. That is just speculation. I don't know if Nintendo has contracted anyone yet for the next gen of their console. Anyway, the article covers a lot of areas, so I'm skipping around.

Oh, please, save your NV PR slides

Nvidia is not making any serious money on software so far, nothing that would change its balance sheets.

Excellent observation, T2k. Nvidia offers excellent SDK's for developers and scientist, geologists, researchers to create their own apps. And then what happens T2k? Nvidia sells more hardware. Tesla to be specific. Nvidia makes it's money on enabling anyone to create applications for the CUDA architecture. Others will adopt the apps, perhaps refine them. Nvidia offers assistance to anyone who needs it. This is what I call, "nurturing" the baby. Watch it grow and grow.

And T2k, if you cannot have a simple conversation without being the nastiest mofo on this forum, just please pipe down and go hit a punching bag for a while or something. Please. Pretend my face is on it if it helps.