Nvidia brings SLI back to life. Coming in September.

[VIAN]

CHKSIX

Unfortunately, that above statement holds no water with SLI. Buying a card from each generation and then "oc'n it" will never give you the performance advantage of SLI or else it wouldn't of even been economically feasible to make and then incorporate such a design.

SLI =Scan Line Interleave. Each card has about half the work load of a single card and draws 50% of the screen while the other card does the other 50%. No single OC'd card from any generation (including R420 and Nv40) can accomplish this under any circumstance, since a one card solution is doing 100% of the work all the time.

First of all let me just say that Nvidia's SLI doesn't stand for Scan Line Interleave. And second of all you didn't fully comprehend my post. So go back and read it again.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: VIAN
CHKSIX

Unfortunately, that above statement holds no water with SLI. Buying a card from each generation and then "oc'n it" will never give you the performance advantage of SLI or else it wouldn't of even been economically feasible to make and then incorporate such a design.

SLI =Scan Line Interleave. Each card has about half the work load of a single card and draws 50% of the screen while the other card does the other 50%. No single OC'd card from any generation (including R420 and Nv40) can accomplish this under any circumstance, since a one card solution is doing 100% of the work all the time.

First of all let me just say that Nvidia's SLI doesn't stand for Scan Line Interleave. And second of all you didn't fully comprehend my post. So go back and read it again.

At least educate the poor bastage when correcting him nV SLI=Scalable Link Interface.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Rollo
I might have been wrong about my guess that possible SM3 gains were the main reason we were seeing the firesale $75 below MSRP on limited availability at launch X800XTs.

I wonder if ATI heard about the closed door demos of this or got some other intelligence, and said,"Crap. We're screwed. We need to get these in high end guys hands NOW, or they'll be waiting a few months and buying PCIE 6800s".

I liked the X-Files, can you tell?

the problem is both your hypothesis fail at the most basic level: it's not ati selling for under msrp, it's 2 online retail outlets (gateway & cdw), neither of which have delivered any product afaik (or a VERY limited #).

edit: that would be akin to claiming nvidia is scared and that's why we saw $299 GT's from BB and the cheap deals from CUSA you posted for the PNY cards - and we know that's simply not true.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: gururu
So are the mobos gonna have appropriately spaced pci-express slots to fit two 6800ultras?
3DFX legacy lives on!! About time this feature was brought back to life!

Tier 1 mobo makers will more than likely follow IEEE standards as to where slots are supposed to go. That is more than likely what Nvidia's bridge PCB is based on.

 

[VIAN]

At least educate the poor bastage when correcting him nV SLI=Scalable Link Interface.

Thanks, I always forget that.

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_sli/

I went here to learn about it. SLI doesn't give you double the performance, it gives you 1.87 times the performance of one card at a maximum. It won't give you that in all games, but it will in some, while others will fall below that. Nvidia does say that it has potential to reach 2x if programmers start writing code for it.

Nvidia's technology works by dividing the picture horizontally and splitting the workload equally. They have and algorith to chose how much of the screen each cards get so that the workload stays equal.

They also wanted to use the term SLI, because people were familiar with it - a.k.a. marketing.


Another problem with SLI is that while one card, the master card will get 16x PCIe, the other card will only get 8x PCIe. This isn't really a bad thing for gaming, but if you plan on having other PCIe components, it's a shame that the 24 PCIe lanes are all in use.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: VIAN

Another problem with SLI is that while one card, the master card will get 16x PCIe, the other card will only get 8x PCIe. This isn't really a bad thing for gaming, but if you plan on having other PCIe components, it's a shame that the 24 PCIe lanes are all in use.

Actually, that's wrong. SLI is fully capable of of 16x PCIe on both cards, it's only the current prototype motherboards that limits the second card to 8x.

The current prototypes of motherboards with two PCI Express x16 slots are actually only using one PCI Express x16 interface and one x8 interface, simply with an x16 connector (so it's physically an x16 slot, but electrically, an x8 slot)

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2097&p=2


So go back and read it again.

 

[reever]

So go back and read it again

How does that make his statement wrong? It's still running off all 24 lanes and one card is revieving a signal with just 8x bandwidth

 

[Creig]

Well, he said that the problem was with SLI. It's not SLI that's limiting the bandwidth, but the current motherboards.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

I though bandwidth wasn't an issue for graphics cards at this time.

 

[Creig]

Once dual 16x slot PCIe motherboards are released, SLI will be able to take full advantage of it.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
I though bandwidth wasn't an issue for graphics cards at this time.

Very true.

 

[VIAN]

So go back and read it again.

Aren't we a smart ass.

Unfortunately, I didn't read that article.

Plans are still unknown for right now, who knows how many lanes they are going to upgrade it to.

 

[ChkSix]

Originally posted by: VIAN
CHKSIX

Unfortunately, that above statement holds no water with SLI. Buying a card from each generation and then "oc'n it" will never give you the performance advantage of SLI or else it wouldn't of even been economically feasible to make and then incorporate such a design.

SLI =Scan Line Interleave. Each card has about half the work load of a single card and draws 50% of the screen while the other card does the other 50%. No single OC'd card from any generation (including R420 and Nv40) can accomplish this under any circumstance, since a one card solution is doing 100% of the work all the time.

First of all let me just say that Nvidia's SLI doesn't stand for Scan Line Interleave. And second of all you didn't fully comprehend my post. So go back and read it again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Vian..no need for attitude.. And second of all, read THIS:

Why? SLI (scan line interleave)

Go check it on in the second paragraph, second sentence of Tom's Hardware article here.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040628/index.html

Can you see where it says SCAN LINE INTERLEAVE? It does do that, hence CUTTING THE SCREEN EQUALLY BETWEEN TWO CARDS. It is also means scalable link interface. Who else thinks I need educating? Bunch of wise asses today huh? :beer:

My comment to your post wasn't to you, but out of someone quoting it. And if I go back and read it again, I'll give you the same answer just so I can join the wise ass crew today.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: ChkSix
Vian..no need for attitude.. And second of all, read THIS:

Why? SLI (scan line interleave)

Go check it on in the second paragraph, second sentence of Tom's Hardware article here.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040628/index.html

Can you see where it says SCAN LINE INTERLEAVE? It does do that, hence CUTTING THE SCREEN EQUALLY BETWEEN TWO CARDS. It is also means scalable link interface. Who else thinks I need educating? Bunch of wise asses today huh? :beer:

Except that the 6800 does not do Scan Line Interleave. Scan Line Interleave is ONE CARD DRAWING ALL THE EVEN LINES AND ONE ALL THE ODD LINES (interleaving the scan lines, hence the name), not CUTTING THE SCREEN EQUALLY BETWEEN TWO CARDS. Read things more carefully before you make incorrect posts and then bitch at the people who correct you. The article you linked to says this:

Six years ago, if you'd mentioned the three letters SLI to a gamer, you would have been greeted with wide eyes and wild excitement. Why? SLI (scan line interleave) was a new concept that promised no less than improved gaming performance and playable frame rates at what was then an unheard of 1024x768 resolution with a Z-buffer enabled by combining the rendering power of two Voodoo 2 add-in cards. Since then, we haven't seen anything of the sort commercially available.

They're talking about the Voodoo2 SLI, which DID use Scan Line Interleave. Not the 6800.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: ChkSix
I don't think it will be small at all, considering any Nivida card from 6800 to the 6800Ultra can be used in this configuration.

The only reason for such an answer is to downplay SLI's significance. And that isn't logical at all, but a lot of us already realize that.

what's not logical about history?

"Metabyte definitely has something with Parallel Graphics Processing, but I can't help but wonder how niche the add-on 3D card market really is? That's the main reason 3DFX pulled out of 3D-only, and it's a damned good thing that Stepsister technology works on integrated 2D/3D cards - everyone's eventually going to upgrade right? So why not get a card that gives you drivers with awesome features AND the potential to double your performance later? " ~ Firingsquad 2/26/99

it's not like this technology caught fire.. how easily some people forget...

while it's quite interesting and may even be quite beneficial, it's a bit early yet to be proclaiming anything, good or bad..

 

[Killrose]

One thing on this SLI/Metabyte whatever you want to call it. We are not in the old day's of slow CPU's and GPU's where you had to have everything just to play Quake1 @640x480 with a decent frame rate.
You were kinda stuck buying SLI if you were into the latest gamming.

Nowady's most gammers have something CPU wise above 2+gig and a GPU in the 9700/Ti4600 class, and can play anygame at a decent frame rate, it's only a question of howmuch AA/AF you have to have, it is not needed to play the game.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Killrose
One thing on this SLI/Metabyte whatever you want to call it. We are not in the old day's of slow CPU's and GPU's where you had to have everything just to play Quake1 @640x480 with a decent frame rate.
You were kinda stuck buying SLI if you were into the latest gamming.

Nowady's most gammers have something CPU wise above 2+gig and a GPU in the 9700/Ti4600 class, and can play anygame at a decent frame rate, it's only a question of howmuch AA/AF you have to have, it is not needed to play the game.

it's all relative...

back in 99 i had p3 500 and a diamond viper (tnt2), which was pretty high end.. it ran quake 2 around 50fps @ 800x600.. the point being if there's such a great market, why didn't wicked succed and when you could run it 1.5-2x faster? the added complexity, heat, cost, etc simply makes it a niche market.. the avg joe (and don't kid yourself, that's where the $$'s are.. the high end stuff is simply for bragging rights) doesn't want to deal with that..

am i saying nvidia's sli will fail? not at all. they definately have more marketing power and cash than wicked ever did. what i am saying is that, as cool as this solution appears right now, it's success is hardly guaranteed. much of it depends on the progress of the next gen parts (or lack thereof?), the cost, and so on and so forth...

 

[ChkSix]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: ChkSix
Vian..no need for attitude.. And second of all, read THIS:

Why? SLI (scan line interleave)

Go check it on in the second paragraph, second sentence of Tom's Hardware article here.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040628/index.html

Can you see where it says SCAN LINE INTERLEAVE? It does do that, hence CUTTING THE SCREEN EQUALLY BETWEEN TWO CARDS. It is also means scalable link interface. Who else thinks I need educating? Bunch of wise asses today huh? :beer:

Except that the 6800 does not do Scan Line Interleave. Scan Line Interleave is ONE CARD DRAWING ALL THE EVEN LINES AND ONE ALL THE ODD LINES (interleaving the scan lines, hence the name), not CUTTING THE SCREEN EQUALLY BETWEEN TWO CARDS. Read things more carefully before you make incorrect posts and then bitch at the people who correct you. The article you linked to says this:

Six years ago, if you'd mentioned the three letters SLI to a gamer, you would have been greeted with wide eyes and wild excitement. Why? SLI (scan line interleave) was a new concept that promised no less than improved gaming performance and playable frame rates at what was then an unheard of 1024x768 resolution with a Z-buffer enabled by combining the rendering power of two Voodoo 2 add-in cards. Since then, we haven't seen anything of the sort commercially available.

They're talking about the Voodoo2 SLI, which DID use Scan Line Interleave. Not the 6800.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Mattias....you forgot to post this as well, which leads to Scan Line Interleave in BOTH OLD AND NEW (Voodoo AND 6800) cards. I said cut, however u put it in technical terms which is exactly what I meant. Add the rest of the next paragraph before you tell me I am still wrong and need to read things correctly.

Today's SLI is doing the SAME THING AS VOODOO. Try to tell me where it isn't INTERLEAVING between both cards to draw a complete scene! Oh yeah..the part you left out in your post from Tom's article is below. This is the very next paragraph as you were so quick to quote me on but convienently left out.

However, it seems that this may change very soon. With the introduction of PCI Express, using two graphics cards in parallel is once again a possibility, and surely many a gamer's dream. Back in March, we already speculated on such possibilities in our PCI Express article.

What do you think they are talking about, AT&T now? Or is it a continuation on the paragraph prior that dealt with Scan Line Interleaving?

Changing a name doesn't change what it's doing...sorry. A x86 does the same thing as a Prescott, but because the name changes I don't say that in it's most primitive form they aren't both crunching 0's and 1's with the same end goal.

Or better yet, maybe you need to look at this:

http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040628/nvidia-01.html

I think a few of you need to calm down before you tell me I need to read first. Obviously, it seems like I am the only one doing the reading while a few of you are quick to jump on my ass, only to make yourselves look like troglodytes in the process.

 

[Keysplayr]

True, but its not just about AA/AF Killrose. We are talking much higher minimum sustainable framerates with AA and AF that is not possible at the highest settings on a single card. I will be conservative in saying that your 1600x1200 maxxed AA/AF framerates should easily increase by 30% using NV SLI which in itself is substantial. I would expect more than 30% though. They said a maximum improvement of about 1.87X.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ChkSix

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: ChkSix
Vian..no need for attitude.. And second of all, read THIS:

Why? SLI (scan line interleave)

Go check it on in the second paragraph, second sentence of Tom's Hardware article here.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040628/index.html

Can you see where it says SCAN LINE INTERLEAVE? It does do that, hence CUTTING THE SCREEN EQUALLY BETWEEN TWO CARDS. It is also means scalable link interface. Who else thinks I need educating? Bunch of wise asses today huh? :beer:

Except that the 6800 does not do Scan Line Interleave. Scan Line Interleave is ONE CARD DRAWING ALL THE EVEN LINES AND ONE ALL THE ODD LINES (interleaving the scan lines, hence the name), not CUTTING THE SCREEN EQUALLY BETWEEN TWO CARDS. Read things more carefully before you make incorrect posts and then bitch at the people who correct you. The article you linked to says this:

Six years ago, if you'd mentioned the three letters SLI to a gamer, you would have been greeted with wide eyes and wild excitement. Why? SLI (scan line interleave) was a new concept that promised no less than improved gaming performance and playable frame rates at what was then an unheard of 1024x768 resolution with a Z-buffer enabled by combining the rendering power of two Voodoo 2 add-in cards. Since then, we haven't seen anything of the sort commercially available.

They're talking about the Voodoo2 SLI, which DID use Scan Line Interleave. Not the 6800.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Mattias....you forgot to post this as well, which leads to Scan Line Interleave in BOTH OLD AND NEW (Voodoo AND 6800) cards. I said cut, however u put it in technical terms which is exactly what I meant. Add the rest of the next paragraph before you tell me I am still wrong and need to read things correctly.

Today's SLI is doing the SAME THING AS VOODOO. Try to tell me where it isn't INTERLEAVING between both cards to draw a complete scene! Oh yeah..the part you left out in your post from Tom's article is below. This is the very next paragraph as you were so quick to quote me on.

However, it seems that this may change very soon. With the introduction of PCI Express, using two graphics cards in parallel is once again a possibility, and surely many a gamer's dream. Back in March, we already speculated on such possibilities in our PCI Express article.

What do you think they are talking about AT&T now..or is it a continuation on the paragraph prior that dealt with Scan Line Interleaving?

Changing a name doesn't change what it's doing...sorry. A x86 does the same thing as a Prescott, but because the name changes I don't say that in it's most primitive form they aren't both crunching 0's and 1's with the same end goal.

Oh brother. It IS NOT scan line interleaving dude. Thats when odd and even lines are split up between two GPU's. Nvidia's solution does not do this. The rendering is done by percentage of complexity via a load balancing algorithm. Each 6800 does not interleave lines in between what the other is rendering. One card does the top percent and the other does the remainder of the percent. Nothing is interleaved.

 

[ChkSix]

Sh|t, I'm wrong. Sorry, rough fuc qing day.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ChkSix
Sh|t, I'm wrong. Sorry, rough fuc qing day.

Yup, we all have those.

 

[Killrose]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
True, but its not just about AA/AF Killrose. We are talking much higher minimum sustainable framerates with AA and AF that is not possible at the highest settings on a single card. I will be conservative in saying that your 1600x1200 maxxed AA/AF framerates should easily increase by 30% using NV SLI which in itself is substantial. I would expect more than 30% though. They said a maximum improvement of about 1.87X.

Yeah, I realise every time we are able to increase resolution and AA/AF, we are treating ourselves to supposedly new/higher levels of gamming enjoyment/goodness, and don't get me wrong, it's a good thing

I think it is time we have a CPU socket and a GPU socket on mainboards that tie into a PCI-e compatable video card. Does the second card in this type of system actually need it's own on-board ram to perform its needed duty? and is one card a slave if you will, to a master video card? And why even bother with this tecnology if new GPU's keep outpacing the previous generation by 30-40%?

What if the 6800 you buy today will not SLI with tommorrows 6900?....ohh the pain of it all!!

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Killrose

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
True, but its not just about AA/AF Killrose. We are talking much higher minimum sustainable framerates with AA and AF that is not possible at the highest settings on a single card. I will be conservative in saying that your 1600x1200 maxxed AA/AF framerates should easily increase by 30% using NV SLI which in itself is substantial. I would expect more than 30% though. They said a maximum improvement of about 1.87X.

Yeah, I realise every time we are able to increase resolution and AA/AF, we are treating ourselves to supposedly new/higher levels of gamming enjoyment/goodness, and don't get me wrong, it's a good thing

I think it is time we have a CPU socket and a GPU socket on mainboards that tie into a PCI-e compatable video card. Does the second card in this type of system actually need it's own on-board ram to perform its needed duty? and is one card a slave if you will, to a master video card? And why even bother with this tecnology if new GPU's keep outpacing the previous generation by 30-40%?

What if the 6800 you buy today will not SLI with tommorrows 6900?....ohh the pain of it all!!

According to Nvidia, you cant even mix 6800's with each other. The cards do not necessarily have to be from the same OEM, but they do need to both be 6800 vanilla's, or 6800GT's or 6800Ultra's. Both cards have to have the same horsepower (GPU pipes, GPU speed, mem type and speed) for NV SLI to work.
So you cant use a 6800vanilla with a 6800GT or Ultra let alone a potential 6900 card.

And, I very much doubt that the next gen of cards will deliver the performance increase that the R420/NV40 delivered over the R360/NV35.

 

[Insomniak]

I like this...Nvidia is innovating again...I don't care what anyone says, they're always done that more than any company excepting maybe 3Dfx (and considering where 3Dfx is now, it's hardly a surprise that Nvidia is breaking new ground left and right.)

Between TWIMTBP, Cg, the Return of SLI, pointing the industry towards shaders and programmability...I have to say, I've always been impressed with NV.

ATi makes excellent hardware, but I've yet to see them lead the way in developing new technologies...



*ducks*