Nvidia 40nm update.

[taltamir]

he is helping by actually CONVEYING to us what nvidia says... we can dismiss what nvidia said as PR bull, but that doesn't mean the messenger is at fault for bringing it to us.

the message nvidia sent basically says, "oh we have 40nm too, but due to limited supply we don't sell it to regular customers, only our corporate customers" (tesla? IGP? what? meh)

So, in effect, nvidia actually admits to having no actual answer in the consumer video card market for the 40nm transition, or a plan to release one anytime soon.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: taltamir
he is helping by actually CONVEYING to us what nvidia says... we can dismiss what nvidia said as PR bull, but that doesn't mean the messenger is at fault for bringing it to us.

the message nvidia sent basically says, "oh we have 40nm too, but due to limited supply we don't sell it to regular customers, only our corporate customers" (tesla? IGP? what? meh)

So, in effect, nvidia actually admits to having no actual answer in the consumer video card market for the 40nm transition, or a plan to release one anytime soon.

40nm isnt bringing anything to the table for either company until the next-gen anyway. I really dont see the big deal.

Unless you really care that much about saving a couple dollars in power, the 4770 is just crowding the marketplace in an already oversaturated segment.

 

[taltamir]

i said nvidia has no 40nm answer, not that 40nm is the ultimate feature and that all other gpus should go in the trash... i still use a 65nm GPU because "upgrading" just to lower my power consumption is not cost effective. I will lose more money on the upgrade (shipping costs, and selling used card to buy new one).

However, the reduced head and power consumption could matter in UFF cases like the shuttle, or media center PCs where noise is paramount.

 

[IlllI]

seems to me like they are going to start with maybe 1 card them ramp up and eventually replace all of them with 40nm. maybe by the end of the year they'll all be 40nm products? or could it take longer?

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by the seeming reactive response this otherwise passive information is receiving. Its an FYI, meant to be nothing more and nothing less.

Keys, please don't let the take-home message for yourself or your NV contacts be that of the negative sentiments voiced here. Some of us do like this update info, it beats nothing (or worse, speculation) which is all we would otherwise have were it not for your going to the effort to create this info thread. :thumbsup:

Well, you have to admit that Nvidia does like to try and steal the spotlight away from AMD any chance they get.

-On the 40nm 4770 launch, Nvidia announces they have their own transition to 40nm, but currently have no available 40nm product and won't have any for some time to come.

-On the 4890 launch, Nvidia also announces the release of their GTX 275. But it is in limited quantities until they can ramp up production a few weeks later. They could have easily chosen to stockpile cards until they had enough cards for a hard launch but instead chose a soft launch in order to time its release with AMD's 4890 launch date.

-On the eve of the 4850/4870 launch, Nvidia contacts AnandTech and tries to convince the reviewers to put more emphasis on PhysX and CUDA in an attempt to make AMD cards look like a poor choice compared to their Nvidia counterparts. The resulting information contained in the HD 4890 review regarding this attempt causes the entire Nvidia PR department to pop a collective aneurysm.

It's nice to know that Nvidia is hard at work on their own 40nm cards, but given what we've seen in the past, the timing of this announcement doesn't seem like much of a coincidence given that the NDA on the 40nm 4770 was officially lifted this morning.

QFT. If Nvidia can release a statement saying 'we are working on this too! But we couldn't have told you last week' you can bet maybe some people will be swayed to wait a little longer and hold off purchasing a 4770 and for Nv thats a win- casting doubt in buyers minds for the competitor= marketing.

Unless you really care that much about saving a couple dollars in power, the 4770 is just crowding the marketplace in an already oversaturated segment.

Ummm no. Did you even read AT's review? The 4770 is more than lower power consumption than everything else- It's also the top performer for its price point and you may be surprised that the midrange market is the vast bulk of where AMD/Nv's sales take place. Here let's have a look the conclusion:

It isn't clear when NVIDIA will have a part in this generation of their architecture that competes in the near $100 market. For now, the best option is clear: the Radeon HD 4770 is the way to go.

It is clear that this is the only card worth getting at this price point hardly a card that's 'crowding the marketplace'.
/OT

 

[taltamir]

nvidia can easily compete pricewise... they just have to accept much smaller margins. both companies maintain pretty hefty margins... however smaller margins means less money to research next gen cards which means a slow decline and eventually death.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: SirPauly
Am I missing something?

How is Key's helping the community out by getting nVidia's response on .40, a diatribe on over aggressive PR?

Never cease to amaze me you Nvidia folks

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by the seeming reactive response this otherwise passive information is receiving. Its an FYI, meant to be nothing more and nothing less.

Keys, please don't let the take-home message for yourself or your NV contacts be that of the negative sentiments voiced here. Some of us do like this update info, it beats nothing (or worse, speculation) which is all we would otherwise have were it not for your going to the effort to create this info thread. :thumbsup:

Well, you have to admit that Nvidia does like to try and steal the spotlight away from AMD any chance they get.

-On the 40nm 4770 launch, Nvidia announces they have their own transition to 40nm, but currently have no available 40nm product and won't have any for some time to come.

-On the 4890 launch, Nvidia also announces the release of their GTX 275. But it is in limited quantities until they can ramp up production a few weeks later. They could have easily chosen to stockpile cards until they had enough cards for a hard launch but instead chose a soft launch in order to time its release with AMD's 4890 launch date.

-On the eve of the 4850/4870 launch, Nvidia contacts AnandTech and tries to convince the reviewers to put more emphasis on PhysX and CUDA in an attempt to make AMD cards look like a poor choice compared to their Nvidia counterparts. The resulting information contained in the HD 4890 review regarding this attempt causes the entire Nvidia PR department to pop a collective aneurysm.

It's nice to know that Nvidia is hard at work on their own 40nm cards, but given what we've seen in the past, the timing of this announcement doesn't seem like much of a coincidence given that the NDA on the 40nm 4770 was officially lifted this morning.

QFT. If Nvidia can release a statement saying 'we are working on this too! But we couldn't have told you last week' you can bet maybe some people will be swayed to wait a little longer and hold off purchasing a 4770 and for Nv thats a win- casting doubt in buyers minds for the competitor= marketing.

Unless you really care that much about saving a couple dollars in power, the 4770 is just crowding the marketplace in an already oversaturated segment.

Ummm no. Did you even read AT's review? The 4770 is more than lower power consumption than everything else- It's also the top performer for its price point and you may be surprised that the midrange market is the vast bulk of where AMD/Nv's sales take place. Here let's have a look the conclusion:

It isn't clear when NVIDIA will have a part in this generation of their architecture that competes in the near $100 market. For now, the best option is clear: the Radeon HD 4770 is the way to go.

It is clear that this is the only card worth getting at this price point hardly a card that's 'crowding the marketplace'.
/OT

How exactly is it clear when there is a sub $100 4850 for sale right now?

The mid range in graphics cards are all seperated by a couple dollars and a couple FPS. Call me when something exciting happens.

 

[Wreckage]

So ATI had to move to 40nm to compete with the GTS250 in power usage, but it still lags behind in performance and features.

If you want to say ATI can make a cheaper card, that's fine. But you get what you pay for I guess.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
So ATI had to move to 40nm to compete with the GTS250 in power usage, but it still lags behind in performance and features.

If you want to say ATI can make a cheaper card, that's fine. But you get what you pay for I guess.

Don't the 4830 and the 4770 outperform the GTS250 across the board?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SirPauly
Am I missing something?

How is Key's helping the community out by getting nVidia's response on .40, a diatribe on over aggressive PR?

It isn't.
This question was asked a few times by several members. I forwarded it to NV as I do a lot of questions. Some things they cannot comment on, some they can. They could on this one. I shared. Doesn't get simpler.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage
So ATI had to move to 40nm to compete with the GTS250 in power usage, but it still lags behind in performance and features.

If you want to say ATI can make a cheaper card, that's fine. But you get what you pay for I guess.

Don't the 4830 and the 4770 outperform the GTS250 across the board?

The GTS250 generally outperforms a 4850 and is closer to a 4870-512.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: taltamir
he is helping by actually CONVEYING to us what nvidia says... we can dismiss what nvidia said as PR bull, but that doesn't mean the messenger is at fault for bringing it to us.

the message nvidia sent basically says, "oh we have 40nm too, but due to limited supply we don't sell it to regular customers, only our corporate customers" (tesla? IGP? what? meh)

So, in effect, nvidia actually admits to having no actual answer in the consumer video card market for the 40nm transition, or a plan to release one anytime soon.

They certainly could be saying that. But that is not what concerned me. All I know is, it answered the question some had here in the forum. That's really all that matters to me.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage
So ATI had to move to 40nm to compete with the GTS250 in power usage, but it still lags behind in performance and features.

If you want to say ATI can make a cheaper card, that's fine. But you get what you pay for I guess.

Don't the 4830 and the 4770 outperform the GTS250 across the board?

The GTS250 generally outperforms a 4850 and is closer to a 4870-512.

Care to back that up with links?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage
So ATI had to move to 40nm to compete with the GTS250 in power usage, but it still lags behind in performance and features.

If you want to say ATI can make a cheaper card, that's fine. But you get what you pay for I guess.

Don't the 4830 and the 4770 outperform the GTS250 across the board?

The GTS250 generally outperforms a 4850 and is closer to a 4870-512.

40nm update guys. Not "this crap".

This thread could actually be locked up if a mod is so inclined. All that really matters is the first post.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage
So ATI had to move to 40nm to compete with the GTS250 in power usage, but it still lags behind in performance and features.

If you want to say ATI can make a cheaper card, that's fine. But you get what you pay for I guess.

Don't the 4830 and the 4770 outperform the GTS250 across the board?

The GTS250 generally outperforms a 4850 and is closer to a 4870-512.

Care to back that up with links?

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16504/11

In the majority of our tests, the GeForce GTS 250 proved faster than the Radeon HD 4850 1GB, if only slightly so.

Now you provide a link showing the 4830 ahead of the GTS250 in the majority of tests.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage
So ATI had to move to 40nm to compete with the GTS250 in power usage, but it still lags behind in performance and features.

If you want to say ATI can make a cheaper card, that's fine. But you get what you pay for I guess.

Don't the 4830 and the 4770 outperform the GTS250 across the board?

The GTS250 generally outperforms a 4850 and is closer to a 4870-512.

Care to back that up with links?

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16504/11

In the majority of our tests, the GeForce GTS 250 proved faster than the Radeon HD 4850 1GB, if only slightly so.

Now you provide a link showing the 4830 ahead of the GTS250 in the majority of tests.

If you read the new AT review of the 4770, it beats it in pretty much everything, and the 4830 basically ties it.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast


If you read the new AT review of the 4770, it beats it in pretty much everything, and the 4830 basically ties it.

So you admit to being a liar? The 4830 is behind the GTS250, even in the Anandtech review.

If you look at the majority of reviews it's not even close.

 

[Keysplayr]

Easy Wreckage. 4770 is as just as much ahead of the GTS250 as it is behind. Depends on the game. According to AT review. It is the GTS250 512 version however. TechReport used the 1GB versions. Big difference between GTS250 512 and 1GB versions.

And for the last time before I complain to the mods and try to get the thread locked, please re-read the thread title.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast


If you read the new AT review of the 4770, it beats it in pretty much everything, and the 4830 basically ties it.

So you admit to being a liar? The 4830 is behind the GTS250, even in the Anandtech review.

If you look at the majority of reviews it's not even close.

What about the 4770? You're the liar.

The GTS250 is only the fastest card in your world, Wreckage.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Easy Wreckage. 4770 is as just as much ahead of the GTS250 as it is behind. Depends on the game. According to AT review. It is the GTS250 512 version however. TechReport used the 1GB versions. Big difference between GTS250 512 and 1GB versions.

And for the last time before I complain to the mods and try to get the thread locked, please re-read the thread title.

No problem, I agree about the 1GB 250. However he did say the 4830. Which is ridiculous.

I won't discuss it in this thread further.

 

[Keysplayr]

Ok, fine. The thread will probably be locked anyway, but you guys are both ridiculous. It's all there in front of both of you in plain english. Wreckage can obviously see the 4770 is faster in some games than the GTS250512. Sickbeast can obviously see that the GTS250 1GB is faster than the 4850 over at TR. Why can't you guys admit to exactly what you read? We can, why can't you?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Ok, fine. The thread will probably be locked anyway, but you guys are both ridiculous. It's all there in front of both of you in plain english. Wreckage can obviously see the 4770 is faster in some games than the GTS250512. Sickbeast can obviously see that the GTS250 1GB is faster than the 4850 over at TR. Why can't you guys admit to exactly what you read? We can, why can't you?

Actually Wreckage is the one who derailed this thread with his insane comment that the GTS250 beats AMD's 40nm parts. I simply refuted what he said. If he wants to talk about a more expensive 1gb part, cherry pick a review, then call me nuts, that's fine and it's his problem.

I just don't see how Wreckage can get away with so much baseless criticism of AMD.

I was honestly under the understanding that the 4830 is faster than the GTS250. I'm gonna go find some reviews.

BTW, why is the thread being locked?

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

~snip~
BTW, why is the thread being locked?

Most likely to end debate on the issue. Keys forwarded his info, and now before the masses can hate on NVidia for their suspected grass roots media ploys they are going lock it up. Further pushing members to head to other forums.

This thread has pretty much devolved into what is typical around here. The usual cast of characters come into just about any thread and push their not-so-hidden agendas. It is pretty easy to see the leanings of members and wonder where their enthusiasm comes from. Is it truly just rampant brand loyalty or is there more at stake for the poster.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by the seeming reactive response this otherwise passive information is receiving. Its an FYI, meant to be nothing more and nothing less.

Keys, please don't let the take-home message for yourself or your NV contacts be that of the negative sentiments voiced here. Some of us do like this update info, it beats nothing (or worse, speculation) which is all we would otherwise have were it not for your going to the effort to create this info thread. :thumbsup:

some of our AMD fans seem to think that keys is evil because he's in the focus group. Thanks, rollo...