NV G84/G86 may all be bad even desktop.

[Nemesis 1]

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/.../09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad

I know its from the inq. But still if there is no foundation for trueth they couldn't print this could they. Anyone have better info .

 

[taltamir]

did you just give the inq. the benefit of the doubt?

 

[Blazer7]

Yes he did. I've seen that article some hours ago and it had me thinking. If it's true then this explains the beating nV's stock took. If it's not Huang won't let that pass like this and the INQ will be in deep $$!# before they know it.

 

[Stoneburner]

Clearly there is something wrong with CERTAIN nvidia chips, it's just that the INQ is claiming it's a much larger problem. ON the other hand, the INQ is not only often wrong, it bashes Nvidia consistently.

We shall see if tech journalists will investigate themselves. I mean, when anandtech claimed 33 percent of xbox360's were failing, it was taken as gospel


Get to work anandtech staff!

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/.../09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad

But still if there is no foundation for trueth they couldn't print this could they.

:thumbsdown:

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Clearly there is something wrong with CERTAIN nvidia chips, it's just that the INQ is claiming it's a much larger problem. ON the other hand, the INQ is not only often wrong, it bashes Nvidia consistently.

We shall see if tech journalists will investigate themselves. I mean, when anandtech claimed 33 percent of xbox360's were failing, it was taken as gospel


Get to work anandtech staff!

the inq not only bashes nvidia consistently, they even explain that they do so because nvidia revoked their "news reporter" status and treats then as the unreliable hacks they are...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Its not about INQ. on speculation on not released products. If what they are reporting isn't true . Seems to me NV could sue them . If it hurt NVs business. Besides we all know that NV reported a hugh write down for the next QT. So it could be true. I have to be lucky I shorted NV . and now all this occurrs . Sorry to say I am loving it . Its $$$ in the bank . If its true I think maybe other sites should try some investagative reporting . IF nv isn't forthcoming with info. Than the hardware sites should report that and add there own thoughts to the problem . It is up to NV how this gets handled. But no sweeping under the rug.

I have no problems with NV . I just preferr ATI . Basicly ATI had better IQ for a long long time. But making money and market timing is everthing. Next up for me is to Buy AMD stock in the next 3 market cycles.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Blazer7
Yes he did. I've seen that article some hours ago and it had me thinking. If it's true then this explains the beating nV's stock took. If it's not Huang won't let that pass like this and the INQ will be in deep $$!# before they know it.

On the drive yesterday I listened to a WSJ radio report that mentioned Nvidia having some bad chips and a heat problem with others; so either they are connected a lot of not so visible dots or there is an actual story out there.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Its not about INQ. on speculation on not released products. If what they are reporting isn't true . Seems to me NV could sue them . If it hurt NVs business. Besides we all know that NV reported a hugh write down for the next QT. So it could be true. I have to be lucky I shorted NV . and now all this occurrs . Sorry to say I am loving it . Its $$$ in the bank .

I have no problems with NV . I just preferr ATI . Basicly ATI had better IQ for a long long time. But making money and market timing is everthing. Next up for me is to Buy AMD stock in the next 3 market cycles.

LOL

Most people realize The Inquirer is to be ignored, when a more respected site like Anandtech says every one is defective, I'll pay more attention.

Won't be holding my breath waiting.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Its not about INQ. on speculation on not released products. If what they are reporting isn't true . Seems to me NV could sue them . If it hurt NVs business. Besides we all know that NV reported a hugh write down for the next QT. So it could be true. I have to be lucky I shorted NV . and now all this occurrs . Sorry to say I am loving it . Its $$$ in the bank . If its true I think maybe other sites should try some investagative reporting . IF nv isn't forthcoming with info. Than the hardware sites should report that and add there own thoughts to the problem . It is up to NV how this gets handled. But no sweeping under the rug.

I have no problems with NV . I just preferr ATI . Basicly ATI had better IQ for a long long time. But making money and market timing is everthing. Next up for me is to Buy AMD stock in the next 3 market cycles.

Well just because you hope its true, doesnt mean it is

 

[rjc]

I have an Asus V1S with a nv 8600gt since february, it does seem to run fairly hot, cant use it on my lap for any length of time for instance.

Can anyone recommend some software to continually monitor and log the temperature during the day? I just want to see if it is swinging up and down alot which might precipitate the problem.

I saw on the notebook review forum someone else said it was not the GPU itself but the C51 chip which was overheating, anyone have any idea what that is?

Did notice also as well as the inquirer article & hp page there do seem to be a large number of complaints about the dell xps laptops(ie 1330s and 1530s) and apple macbooks of various forums which have 8400/8600's, ie they all wont boot just 1 long beep and 2 short beeps.

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: rjc

Can anyone recommend some software to continually monitor and log the temperature during the day?

I'm pretty sure RivaTuner can log the data to a file.

 

[Quiksilver]

You mean people still read INQ?

 

[CKTurbo128]

TheInq. has a well-known anti-nVIDIA bias, so it's not surprising that they're using this situation to bash nVIDIA yet again. Probably has something to do with nVIDIA blacklisting the site.

In any case, if this is true and the problem affects all G84/G86 chips, nVIDIA will be in trouble. The timing isn't good for them either, since they also have to deal with: 1.) Competition from AMD/ATI's latest lineup, 2.) Dispute with Intel over licensing for QuickPath tech. (Nehalem), 3. Large stock price drop over the last month, 4.) Rambus suing nVIDIA.

 

[Screech]

This is very interesting....I have a dell laptop with a 8400M GS (G86M). The first video card I had in this laptop failed completely and had to be replaced about a half year after purchase (thankfully this was, and still is, all under warranty). This was replaced with a completely new Motherboard + video card combo, but every now and then while doing something that, for this card, is graphics-intensive (like running civ4) the laptop shuts down......I've been thinking it is the video card overheating....

Anyway.....take that as you want to...

 

[taltamir]

"ATI has been IQ so I really really REALLY wish nvidia has a huge major catastrophy, a not very logical one, which will make them loose lots of money and make ATI dominate the market and hurt consumers due to lack of competition.."

Great logic there... or does the all loving ATI give away cheap advanced hardware and push hard to further improve even if they feel they have market dominance... does your utopian dream involve nVidia going under and AMD pushing hard for new technological innovation, hitting the mark every time, and providing amazingly low prices and great IQ even in a monopoly status?

 

[rjc]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I'm pretty sure RivaTuner can log the data to a file.

Yeah it seems to log it to a file in with a 'hml' suffix. Not sure how to extract it into a spreadsheet or something so i can graph it.

I use the laptop for work so will run it on monday for a full day to see if i can see any spiking. From just playing around with regular windows software the card on boot idles at 60degC or so and up to around 68 or so. Fan runs constantly, which must be draining on the battery. From looking on notebook review this appears standard.

Trying any games send it quickly into the 90s celcius before some downclocking appears to kick in after 10mins or so, causing game performance to dive. This is most disappointing as i was hoping to use the laptop to occasionally play a few games.

 

[rjc]

Originally posted by: screech
This is very interesting....I have a dell laptop with a 8400M GS (G86M). The first video card I had in this laptop failed completely and had to be replaced about a half year after purchase (thankfully this was, and still is, all under warranty). This was replaced with a completely new Motherboard + video card combo, but every now and then while doing something that, for this card, is graphics-intensive (like running civ4) the laptop shuts down......I've been thinking it is the video card overheating....

There was a poll & thread on notebook review about the x1330 which has a 8400gs:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=266624
Average temp looks to be in the 60s degC, there was some complaining in the thread about HWmonitor misreporting temps as too low, and also the 156 nvidia driver also taking 10degC off the actual temp for some reason.

 

[Chiropteran]

Originally posted by: nRollo
LOL

Most people realize The Inquirer is to be ignored, when a more respected site like Anandtech says every one is defective, I'll pay more attention.

You going to ignore HP too? Yeah, HP probably put up a fake page just to support the Inq's story, that makes sense. And all the Dell laptop failures with G84/G86 must be fake too right?

You don't have to trust Inq on this, just do your own research.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: rjc

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I'm pretty sure RivaTuner can log the data to a file.

Yeah it seems to log it to a file in with a 'hml' suffix. Not sure how to extract it into a spreadsheet or something so i can graph it.

I use the laptop for work so will run it on monday for a full day to see if i can see any spiking. From just playing around with regular windows software the card on boot idles at 60degC or so and up to around 68 or so. Fan runs constantly, which must be draining on the battery. From looking on notebook review this appears standard.

Trying any games send it quickly into the 90s celcius before some downclocking appears to kick in after 10mins or so, causing game performance to dive. This is most disappointing as i was hoping to use the laptop to occasionally play a few games.

Try this. It'll help you take control of your cooling. Laptop manufacturers invariably err on the side of silence rather than necessary cooling.

 

[rjc]

Try this. It'll help you take control of your cooling. Laptop manufacturers invariably err on the side of silence rather than necessary cooling.

Thank you for the link, i will try this out later. I did notice HP had put out a a bios fix and dell has put out mutiple bios versions for the x1330 with fan speed increases but none yet for the x1530 which is physically larger and has an 8600...suggesting the main problem is occuring either in 8400gs chip or the smaller form factor notebooks.

Upping the fan speed is probably the best practical solution...sadly doesnt do much for the already poor battery life in these modern laptops. Also particular to the asus v1s and g1s models the fan vents on the right side, often making mouse use uncomfortable, increasing the speed is likely to completely roast the rodent.

Re inq article credibility...

Usually better not to shoot the messenger without evidence. Roughly from the nvidia 8k statement the charge is $200m. From here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/v...n_Peddie_Research.html
Nvidia seems roughly to be selling slightly less than 9million units per quarter say 35million for the year. What percentage 8400 and 8600? How much do each replacement cost?
Completely guessing that 8400/8600 were 50% of nvidia mobile sales in the previous year and each replacement costs $100. This would imply 17million units sold of which 2million are faulty and need replacing. ie 11% failure rate.

(Could someone make these numbers better - how much does a replacement typically cost, there have been lots of recalls in the past? How many 8400/8600s have been sold?)

 

[Paratus]

[nV tech] Sir we analyzed their attack pattern, the 4870, Rambus lawsuit, the thermal problems on G84/G86, and there is a danger! Should I ready your golden parachute?
[Grand CEO Jen-Hsun] Flee now in our moment of triumph!? I think you over estimate their chances!

 

[shangshang]

even if what the INQ said is grossly exaggerated or even outright untrue, it would still be very hard for NV to sue the INQ for actual damages in court. NV would need to prove that somehow the words of the INQ led to the loss of sales and incomes. The First Amend gives INQ a lot of leeway and puts the burden of proof on NV. If it was easy for NV to sue, then they would have already. But this applies for US parties. Isn't the INQ based in the UK or something? If that's the case, then it'll only make it more difficult for NV to sue them. NV ain't suing nobody.

 

[shangshang]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Its not about INQ. on speculation on not released products. If what they are reporting isn't true . Seems to me NV could sue them . If it hurt NVs business. Besides we all know that NV reported a hugh write down for the next QT. So it could be true. I have to be lucky I shorted NV . and now all this occurrs . Sorry to say I am loving it . Its $$$ in the bank . If its true I think maybe other sites should try some investagative reporting . IF nv isn't forthcoming with info. Than the hardware sites should report that and add there own thoughts to the problem . It is up to NV how this gets handled. But no sweeping under the rug.

I have no problems with NV . I just preferr ATI . Basicly ATI had better IQ for a long long time. But making money and market timing is everthing. Next up for me is to Buy AMD stock in the next 3 market cycles.

you gotta be kidding me about buying AMD the stock. It's been a dog for the last decade. I'm sure it'll have its bounce. But why would you want to invest in a laggard and not a leader? Are you one of those investors who like to buy the underdogs and root for it? You'll get lucky once in a while, but not a good longterm investment strategy.

 

[Blazer7]

Originally posted by: shangshang
even if what the INQ said is grossly exaggerated or even outright untrue, it would still be very hard for NV to sue the INQ for actual damages in court. NV would need to prove that somehow the words of the INQ led to the loss of sales and incomes. The First Amend gives INQ a lot of leeway and puts the burden of proof on NV. If it was easy for NV to sue, then they would have already. But this applies for US parties. Isn't the INQ based in the UK or something? If that's the case, then it'll only make it more difficult for NV to sue them. NV ain't suing nobody.

AFAIK the INQ is based in the UK but that doesn't make much of a difference. UK or USA if the INQ's article is false then difficult or not Huang will be suing them and you can take that to the bank.