Number of credit cards does not hurt your credit score.

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amdforever2

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2002
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I'm not necessarily referring to the ATOT population.

I have had people turn down a product that would cut their interest in half.


"Ooohhhh I heard that's not too good I think I'd better just keep what I have"
 

thomsbrain

Lifer
Dec 4, 2001
18,148
1
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Originally posted by: amdforever2
I'm not necessarily referring to the ATOT population.

I have had people turn down a product that would cut their interest in half.


"Ooohhhh I heard that's not too good I think I'd better just keep what I have"

anyone who carries a balance is a fool, so why would you expect otherwise?. and for someone who pays it off every month, it doesn't matter what the interest rate is. monthly charges, minimum finance charges, and rewards matter far more. and that 0% interest is always crap anyway, since as soon as you make another transaction they hit you with the full %, on top of a transaction fee. like i said, anyone who actually carries a balance (especially one big enough to worry about the percentage rate) is a fool.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,024
4,650
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Originally posted by: amdforever2
As soon as you make another transaction they hit you with the full percent?

What?
Yes, that is how most 0% scams work. You get a 0% interest balance transfer. Then you think you have 0% on that card. But the purchases you make are at 20%. And you can't pay off that 20% purchase until you paid of the entire 0% transfer.

Of course, any intelligent person would see that trick and isn't affected. But, 0% offers are scams for the idiots who carry a CC balance. For the rest of us, there is no need for many cards.
 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
1
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0% APR on BT's is a scam? Well I'm glad you guys think that. All the more for those of us who take full advantage of them.

:thumbsup:

Mark
 

amdforever2

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2002
1,879
0
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0% interest is not a scam.

Applying payments to low interest rate balances before higher interest rate balances has been in place since the CASH ADVANCE was invented.
 

FP

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2005
4,568
0
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Originally posted by: amdforever2
0% interest is not a scam.

Applying payments to low interest rate balances before higher interest rate balances has been in place since the CASH ADVANCE was invented.

Scam/misleading... Whatever... Call it what you like.

When people transfer money to a 0% interest rate card they are probably unaware that future purchases on the card are usually at a higher rate AND any payments to the card are applied to the LOWER (ie 0%) rate first.

So if you transfer 10g's @ 0%, make 1 gas station purchase on the card for $40 and take 5 years to pay off the card you will be paying interest on that $40 for those 5 years. Compound interest FTL in this case.
 

FP

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2005
4,568
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I actually took advantage of a 0% offer.

I had 15g's left on my car loan and my Amex card sent me an offer for 0% for the life of the balance.

So I transferred the 15g's to my Amex card @ 0% and put the Amex card in my safe, never to be used.

In my case it worked out, but I also read the fine print.

Now, if I happen to miss a payment I am fvcked. I will owe a ton of fees and the interest rate will shoot up to some ungodly amount.
 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
1
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Originally posted by: binister
Originally posted by: amdforever2
0% interest is not a scam.

Applying payments to low interest rate balances before higher interest rate balances has been in place since the CASH ADVANCE was invented.

Scam/misleading... Whatever... Call it what you like.

When people transfer money to a 0% interest rate card they are probably unaware that future purchases on the card are usually at a higher rate AND any payments to the card are applied to the LOWER (ie 0%) rate first.

So if you transfer 10g's @ 0%, make 1 gas station purchase on the card for $40 and take 5 years to pay off the card you will be paying interest on that $40 for those 5 years. Compound interest FTL in this case.

Its called reading the terms and conditions. The 0% is on the balance, not purchases. If people can't understand that concept, they shouldn't be using credit cards. Its not a scam.

As for the example you just gave, a simple approximation would be:

40*1.30^5 = $148.51

Thats with 30% interest. The end result isn't exactly the end of the world...

Mark
 

mikebb

Senior member
May 21, 2001
452
0
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Originally posted by: binister
Originally posted by: amdforever2
0% interest is not a scam.

Applying payments to low interest rate balances before higher interest rate balances has been in place since the CASH ADVANCE was invented.

Scam/misleading... Whatever... Call it what you like.

When people transfer money to a 0% interest rate card they are probably unaware that future purchases on the card are usually at a higher rate AND any payments to the card are applied to the LOWER (ie 0%) rate first.

So if you transfer 10g's @ 0%, make 1 gas station purchase on the card for $40 and take 5 years to pay off the card you will be paying interest on that $40 for those 5 years. Compound interest FTL in this case.

I would not call people's failure to read the terms of their CC agreement "misleading" or a "scam."

Every BT offer I've ever received contained the terms clearly outlined in English (not some legalese that I can't understand) that "Payments will be applied to balances with the lower/0% APR before those with the higher APR" or something to that effect. Usually this is a term that's clearly outlined in the "large print" of the offer, not in the fine print.




 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,024
4,650
126
Originally posted by: Minjin
If people can't understand that concept, they shouldn't be using credit cards. Its not a scam.
But that is where the scam comes in. They target those people who shouldn't be using the CC. Then bury the information in fine print. Miss one utility bill payment by one day and suddenly that 0% becomes 20% and the person has no way to pay it. They prey off the stupid.

The smart don't need a 0% balance transfer to begin with.

Using your logic, tricking elderly people into giving you $10k for nothing isn't a scam either. The terms are clearly described to them. It is their fault that they fall for it.
 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
1
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Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Minjin
If people can't understand that concept, they shouldn't be using credit cards. Its not a scam.
But that is where the scam comes in. They target those people who shouldn't be using the CC. Then bury the information in fine print. Miss one utility bill payment by one day and suddenly that 0% becomes 20% and the person has no way to pay it. They prey off the stupid.

The smart don't need a 0% balance transfer to begin with.

Smart people are actually those who take the most advantage of the 0%. Smart people understand the concept of utilizing OPM (other people's money). As for the previous comment, I think what you're really saying is that people need to be protected from themselves. How much of a responsibility do we really have to the stupid people in the world? I think this is the larger, more important debate (and perhaps one for a different thread)...

Mark
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,024
4,650
126
Originally posted by: Minjin
Smart people are actually those who take the most advantage of the 0%. Smart people understand the concept of utilizing OPM (other people's money).
There have been others here using 0% balance transfers to save $20. But then one month later they post that their credit score plummeted 50 points. Maybe that didn't affect them. Maybe their car insurance company checked the credit score during that time and raised their rates by $50 a year. They could have lost by "being smart".
As for the previous comment, I think what you're really saying is that people need to be protected from themselves. How much of a responsibility do we really have to the stupid people in the world? I think this is the larger, more important debate (and perhaps one for a different thread)...
No, people don't necessarily need to be protected from themselves. But predatory lending does need to be kept in check. Not all CC terms are clear. Not all people realize that accidently mailing the phone bill in one day too late might raise their CC interest by 20%. Why? Because that language is buried in fine and confusing print. I think that part should be clearly listed in large font. If the CC company wanted to be above board, why bury these confusing terms in small font?

They don't send out 0% offers because they are kind companies. They send out 0% offers because they know that they'll profit big-time on them. Thus, I recommend that people just avoid it and all CC debt and they'll be fine.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
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Smart people are actually those who take the most advantage of the 0%. Smart people understand the concept of utilizing OPM (other people's money).

Smart people don't cary debt on non-apreciating items ;)
 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
1
81
Originally posted by: bsobel
Smart people are actually those who take the most advantage of the 0%. Smart people understand the concept of utilizing OPM (other people's money).

Smart people don't cary debt on non-apreciating items ;)

You guys still don't get it. Convenience check from 0% offer => 10k in your bank collecting 5% interest. I wouldn't call that non-appreciating...

edit: Or how about if you use your 0% credit card to pay off the balance of a mortgage (that you will pay off within the year)?

Mark
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,024
4,650
126
Originally posted by: Minjin
You guys still don't get it.
No, you don't get it. You can make a minimal amount of cash on some of these deals. But that cash comes with consequences. We don't disagree with you on that point. But, if you only look at the cash and not the whole picture, you may acutally lose money on that 0% deal.

Plus, things can always go wrong. You might fall ill and miss paying your cable TV bill by one day. You might get stranded in a place that'll only accept the wrong CC. You might accidently use the wrong CC for a purchase. You might overdraft by $1 in your checking. Etc. Sure, you might avoid all these altogether (although the falling ill part would be just good luck). But most people won't. Any one of them could harm you bigtime. The mild interest you saved pales in comparison to that 0% balance transfer when it jumps to 20% without you knowing it.

 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
1
81
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Minjin
You guys still don't get it.
No, you don't get it. You can make a minimal amount of cash on some of these deals. But that cash comes with consequences. If you only look at the cash and not the whole picture, you may acutally lose money on that 0% deal.

Plus, things can always go wrong. You might fall ill and miss paying your cable TV bill by one day. You might get stranded in a place that'll only accept the wrong CC. You might accidently use the wrong CC for a purchase. You might overdraft by $1 in your checking. Etc. Sure, you might avoid all these altogether (although the falling ill part would be just good luck). But most people won't. Any one of them could harm you bigtime. The mild interest you saved pales in comparison to that 0% balance transfer when it jumps to 20% without you knowing it.

So you're saying that in order to take advantage of opportunities like this, you need to know what you're doing, know the risks, and know how to fix things should they go bad? Imagine that...

I thought we were talking about smart people.

Mark
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,024
4,650
126
Originally posted by: Minjin
I thought we were talking about smart people.
Smart people can completely prevent car accidents, cancer, etc?

And no, we are talking about the number of credit cards. Dumb people fall for the CC tricks. Smart people don't NEED them.
 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
1
81
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Minjin
I thought we were talking about smart people.
Smart people can completely prevent car accidents, cancer, etc?

Now you're getting silly. /thread for me...

Mark

 

amdforever2

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2002
1,879
0
0
The Universal Default clause can only come into effect if we know about the default.

Considering cable, water, and phone bills generally do not report to the credit bureaus, we dont know if you pay them a day late.

Also consider even paying a CC company late they generally will not REPORT you late for a good thirty days.

THEN CONSIDER even if we do SEE a thirty day late, WE STILL may not actually put you in default rate.

AND THEN
YES THEN

you can call and be like plz take me out of default rate and we might say KTHXBYE.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Btw, is it beneficial to ask for a credit increase, since they run a credit check beforehand, thus perhaps lowering the score in the short term?
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
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Originally posted by: jjsole
Btw, is it beneficial to ask for a credit increase, since they run a credit check beforehand, thus perhaps lowering the score in the short term?

It counts as a credit inquiry so it depends on how many other inquiries you've had in the last 12 months. It will also cycle off in 12 months so it really won't affect you that much. Just don't go crazy with credit inquiries.