NUC & BRIX discussion thread

[you2]

When will they be available ?

 

[Kaido]

When will they be available ?

No pricing or release date yet, although this article did mention having an NVIDIA card as a discrete GPU option & also a new HDMI stick PC: (was their first one even ever available?!)

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing/asus-unveils-trio-of-new-vivomini-pcs-1312361

 

[Hugo Drax]

Intel is supposed to be releasing a quad core i7 NUC with iris pro 580 and thunderbolt 3 connector. its looks to be the size of a Mac Mini. Definitely looks like an interesting product.

Apple looks to have abandoned the Mac Mini line, so this might be my Mac Mini replacement.

 

[Blue_Max]

Intel is supposed to be releasing a quad core i7 NUC with iris pro 580 and thunderbolt 3 connector. its looks to be the size of a Mac Mini. Definitely looks like an interesting product.

I just hope it's not priced like the mac mini... I also hope they give it quiet cooling -- I seriously want one!

 

[PizzaOfDeath]

srsly guys, this is going to be expensive much more than mac mini. this will replace my mm too.

it's skull canyon or build my own tiny mitx system which will have desktop class cpu but with non iris gfx.

or built a mitx with broadwell c but i dont wanna go back to old platofrm

on balance i will await this nuc but many skylake/iris all in ones will come soon zotac/gigabyte etc etc.

 

[Kaido]

Intel is supposed to be releasing a quad core i7 NUC with iris pro 580 and thunderbolt 3 connector. its looks to be the size of a Mac Mini. Definitely looks like an interesting product.

Apple looks to have abandoned the Mac Mini line, so this might be my Mac Mini replacement.

Apple hasn't abandoned it, it's just the same problem that crops up every few years - they simply don't update it that often. They mostly sell laptops & iMacs, so that's where all the R&D goes. They've had their chance to shrink the Mac Mini with the NUC platform for years, but I'd imagine they're waiting for the Skull Canyon design so they can add a blade SSD in there for a big leap up in performance.

 

[TheStu]

Apple hasn't abandoned it, it's just the same problem that crops up every few years - they simply don't update it that often. They mostly sell laptops & iMacs, so that's where all the R&D goes. They've had their chance to shrink the Mac Mini with the NUC platform for years, but I'd imagine they're waiting for the Skull Canyon design so they can add a blade SSD in there for a big leap up in performance.

Looking at what they did with the Retina MacBook, it's much more likely that any new Mini will have soldered everything. Lower power, fanless, Core M design, much like how the current Mini (at least the base model) is effectively a screen-less MacBook Air.

 

[Kaido]

Looking at what they did with the Retina MacBook, it's much more likely that any new Mini will have soldered everything. Lower power, fanless, Core M design, much like how the current Mini (at least the base model) is effectively a screen-less MacBook Air.

Given Apple's lockdown history, that'd definitely make sense. It'd be interesting to see a micro-PC the size of an external 2.5" hard drive with some decent power for sure!

 

[TheStu]

Given Apple's lockdown history, that'd definitely make sense. It'd be interesting to see a micro-PC the size of an external 2.5" hard drive with some decent power for sure!

I'd be happy with something small that packs 1-2 TB3 ports. Then I can dump my bulky tower and consolidate down to basically a little box (or retina MacBook, but I wonder about CPU power), drobo (or similar), and an eGPU.

I wonder if (mini?) STX is that dream. I haven't seen too many boards for it yet.

 

[Kaido]

Setup my Skylake NUC today: (for my work PC)

NUC6i5SYH: ($427)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018Q0GN60

32GB RAM: ($215)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015YPB8ME

512gb Samsung 950 NVMe: ($327)
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-950-512GB-PCIe-NVMe/dp/B01639694M/

1TB Samsung 850 2.5": ($326)
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-75E1T0B-AM/dp/B00OBRFFAS/

Total hardware cost was about $1300. The chip is a laptop i5 (i5-6260U) dual-core, hyperthreaded, 1.8ghz with 2.9ghz turbo @ 15w TDP:

http://ark.intel.com/products/91160/Intel-Core-i5-6260U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-2_90-GHz

Tray price is $304, so if you look at it that way, the NUC itself only costs about a hundred bucks more. So the laptop i5, 32 gigs of RAM, a 512gb NVMe boot drive, and a 1TB SSD for VM's. Went with Win10 Pro; wanted to go with Win7 but didn't want to go through the hassle of having to find non-standard drivers. Install was cake; use the MCT tool to create a bootable USB:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

The only two things I'm not overly excited about are (1) the fact that it uses a laptop instead of a desktop chip (wish I had 4 cores instead of 2), and (2) the graphics are Intel Iris 540. But 32 gigs of RAM gives me a lot more room to play with VM's (16 on my last rig was pretty tight), so there's a tradeoff for going small AND quiet (Gigabyte has a desktop i7 BRIX...noisy as heck & only does 16 gigs, and I tested 32gb in the GTX760 BRIX model & that was a no-go).

On the flip side, it basically gives me an extremely tiny homelab for a reasonable cost ($1300 for 1.5TB total of SSD's & 32 gigs of RAM is definitely not bad at all). My workstation is virtual & protected with snapshots, backed up to a $249 8TB USB drive, plus a I have my other VM's to monkey around with for software testing & whatnot. It will probably run all day off my old UPS

 

[Kaido]

Updated the NUC6i5SYH to BIOS SYSKLi35.86A (latest), won't recognize my boot drive now (512gb Samsung 950 NVMe). So either the drive died, or something is funky with the BIOS update. Downgrading looks like it will be a pain, but I don't have any spare NVMe blades to test it with, bah!

 

[you2]

If you boot from a USB can the system see the NVMe drive ?

 

[Kaido]

If you boot from a USB can the system see the NVMe drive ?

I popped a 2.5" SSD in there & installed Win10 again. No sign of the NVMe. Returning it today. First time I've ever had a Samsung SSD fail on me...

 

[Kaido]

The BIOS update fixed my Ethernet issue (wouldn't recognize the cable before).

Did a speed test on the 2.5" 1TB Samsung EVO 850, only clocks in at 393 MB/s read. I've heard the larger SSD's go quite a bit slower. I'll see how fast my replacement NVMe is when it arrives.

 

[Smitty30]

Updated the NUC6i5SYH to BIOS SYSKLi35.86A (latest), won't recognize my boot drive now (512gb Samsung 950 NVMe). So either the drive died, or something is funky with the BIOS update. Downgrading looks like it will be a pain, but I don't have any spare NVMe blades to test it with, bah!

Nothing is wrong with your Samsung 950 NVMe. The latest BIOS update disabled the M.2 slot for some reason. The NUC Blog covered this back in January:

http://nucblog.net/2016/01/where-did-my-m-2-ssd-go-skylake-nuc-bios-v33/

Just re-enable it and it will work correctly.

 

[Kaido]

Nothing is wrong with your Samsung 950 NVMe. The latest BIOS update disabled the M.2 slot for some reason. The NUC Blog covered this back in January:

http://nucblog.net/2016/01/where-did-my-m-2-ssd-go-skylake-nuc-bios-v33/

Just re-enable it and it will work correctly.

Awesome thanks, will try that tomorrow. Figured it was something like that! My Samsung SSD's have been really really reliable historically...

 

[Aikouka]

Out of curiosity, what are you using the NUC for that made you equip it to the brim?

I don't have any spare NVMe blades to test it with, bah!

I was a bit confused as to why you specifically mentioned NVMe here. At least in my experience, just because it's M-keyed doesn't mean the m.2 slot doesn't support SATA-based SSDs (B key). Both of my Skylake boards have m-keyed m.2 slots, and they both support SATA m.2 SSDs. So, if you had one of those lying around, you should be able to use that too.

 

[Kaido]

Out of curiosity, what are you using the NUC for that made you equip it to the brim?

I was a bit confused as to why you specifically mentioned NVMe here. At least in my experience, just because it's M-keyed doesn't mean the m.2 slot doesn't support SATA-based SSDs (B key). Both of my Skylake boards have m-keyed m.2 slots, and they both support SATA m.2 SSDs. So, if you had one of those lying around, you should be able to use that too.

1. Virtual machines. 32 gigs means I can give more RAM to the virtual machines (host gets some, work VM gets some, test VM gets some, etc.), and a faster drive means they boot up & run quicker for r/w operations. Although so far, the dual-core laptop CPU is the bottleneck - constantly gets pegged at 100%

2. So, it gets a bit confusing with modern drive connectors. My NUC6i5SYH has a traditional 9.5mm 2.5" slot, as well as an M.2 slot (supports both 2242 and 2280 length). M & B-keying aside, the M.2 slot is also NVMe-compatible (which is an interface specification for directly-connected PCIe Gen3 devices), which means it can run the super-fast Samsung 950 Pro-series 2280 M.2 chips.

Your typical SSD is 500 MB/s-ish, whereas a Samsung NMVe drive is typically around 2,500 read & 1,500 write. I'll do some benchmarking in my NUC; from what I've read, the NUC can't take full advantage of the speed, so the numbers might be chopped in half (still fast, just not the full speed it's capable of). Still, that's pretty nice for running virtual machines, where you have the host plus several VM's doing concurrent read/writes, boots, etc.

TL;DR: New Skylake NUC = phenomenal cosmic power (32GB RAM + 2,500 MB/s M.2 2280 NVMe SSD stick), itty bitty living space :awe:

 

[you2]

This is slightly off topic but I am curiuos why you need virtual machines on a nuc. I haven't found a lot of usage for virtual machines to date yet i hear a lot of other folks use them right and left so I am curious why someone (or how someone) would use multiple virutal machines. I can sort of understand it for running windows software on a linux machine (more efficient in some cases than wine) or for having a super powerful machine (blade) for large organization to share but a nuc doesn't really fall into either of these categories when you talk about multiple vms.

1. Virtual machines. 32 gigs means I can give more RAM to the virtual machines (host gets some, work VM gets some, test VM gets some, etc.), and a faster drive means they boot up & run quicker for r/w operations. Although so far, the dual-core laptop CPU is the bottleneck - constantly gets pegged at 100%

 

[TeknoBug]

VMs are good for specific software or benchmarks or having an alternative operating system (especially for "work" software) without dual booting.

 

[Kaido]

This is slightly off topic but I am curiuos why you need virtual machines on a nuc. I haven't found a lot of usage for virtual machines to date yet i hear a lot of other folks use them right and left so I am curious why someone (or how someone) would use multiple virutal machines. I can sort of understand it for running windows software on a linux machine (more efficient in some cases than wine) or for having a super powerful machine (blade) for large organization to share but a nuc doesn't really fall into either of these categories when you talk about multiple vms.

In my particular situation:

1. I work in a tiny cubicle. The more space I can free up, the better. I don't have the room on my desk for a tower PC, and I was constantly kicking the tower underneath my desk.

2. The NUC platform is powerful enough to run several reasonable virtual machines. Core i5 (dual-core + hyperthreading), tons of RAM, fast SSD, high-speed USB 3.0 ports. It's not a CPU powerhouse, but it's enough to get the job done if you don't go nuts.

3. I prefer running my work computer in a VM for a lot of reasons. First, if something crashes, it only crashes my VM, not the host, so I can keep working on other things while I reboot the VM. Second, snapshots make backups really easy. If something breaks or I get a virus or whatever, no hardware is involved...just roll back to the next snapshot. Effortless.

4. Useful for burner VM's...opening potentially unsafe files to test for viruses that people got say via email in a workplace environment, testing out new software & updated revisions or Windows update to see what is affected & what breaks, that sort of thing. Rather than having to have physical hardware to do that, you can test stuff out, then just rewind to the last snapshot to start fresh again. One click disables network access if you need isolation. You can direct-connect USB devices via host pass-through in a VM. Lots & lots of applications just in this one area alone.

5. Testing VM's...use a VPN to see what things look like from the outside of your network. Run different OS's, updates, browsers - especially good for web design. Again, lots of use-case scenarios here...kind of depends on what you want to do.

So I have a tiny, quiet box mounted underneath my desk (out of kicking range), not taking up any space or power, with a nice, safe host OS, and several VM's that are protected with snapshots that let me do a lot more work, faster, and concurrently. All in a package about the size of a two-pack of Hostess cupcakes. As far as using a Linux host goes, sure, but Windows installs in minutes via a USB stick (or clone restore), has easy drivers, easy setup & configuration, the most compatibility, and lots of security software available for the host as needed (easy-to-configure A/V, firewalls, etc.). If you want, you can go crazy with firewall rules & lock down everything on the host so only VM NAT traffic gets through. And then clone the host using a Ghost-like program to make sure you have an extra copy of everything. Makes life sooooooooo easy.

I have a powered multi-port USB 3.0 hub on my desk for the rest of the stuff as needed...8TB backup drive, USB readers (floppy, Bluray/DVD/CD, IDE, SATA, M.2, mSATA, etc.), that sort of stuff. Combined with a quality toolkit (iFixit has great ones for under $100), some cleaning tools like an electric "canned air" machine & electronic cleaning wipes, label printer, etc., my overall computer repair center has really shrunk down quite a bit. Everything fits on my desk & in a couple drawers now. On a big UPS, the NUC & LED screen lasts, like, hours now when the power goes out. This setup basically lets me do nearly everything I need to do on a daily basis as a computer tech. Pretty nice!

 

[Aikouka]

2. So, it gets a bit confusing with modern drive connectors. My NUC6i5SYH has a traditional 9.5mm 2.5" slot, as well as an M.2 slot (supports both 2242 and 2280 length). M & B-keying aside, the M.2 slot is also NVMe-compatible (which is an interface specification for directly-connected PCIe Gen3 devices), which means it can run the super-fast Samsung 950 Pro-series 2280 M.2 chips.

Yeah, I know about the NVMe support, but my point was just that if you thought the other SSD had died, you could use any m.2 SSD to test the slot. In other words, your post sounded like you couldn't test it because you only had one NVMe-based SSD when any m.2 SSD would work.

Your typical SSD is 500 MB/s-ish, whereas a Samsung NMVe drive is typically around 2,500 read & 1,500 write. I'll do some benchmarking in my NUC; from what I've read, the NUC can't take full advantage of the speed, so the numbers might be chopped in half (still fast, just not the full speed it's capable of). Still, that's pretty nice for running virtual machines, where you have the host plus several VM's doing concurrent read/writes, boots, etc.

But how much of this do you even see in real-world use? I upgraded to Skylake and went with a m.2 SSD to reduce the cabling in my PC; however, I couldn't find any indication that I would see a benefit from a 950 Pro over an 850 EVO. Given that the 950 Pro costs nearly twice as much as the 850 EVO for the same capacity, I went with what seemed like the more viable option. It would actually be interesting to see if a VM-heavy setup warranted the faster drive.

 

[Kaido]

Yeah, I know about the NVMe support, but my point was just that if you thought the other SSD had died, you could use any m.2 SSD to test the slot. In other words, your post sounded like you couldn't test it because you only had one NVMe-based SSD when any m.2 SSD would work.

But how much of this do you even see in real-world use? I upgraded to Skylake and went with a m.2 SSD to reduce the cabling in my PC; however, I couldn't find any indication that I would see a benefit from a 950 Pro over an 850 EVO. Given that the 950 Pro costs nearly twice as much as the 850 EVO for the same capacity, I went with what seemed like the more viable option. It would actually be interesting to see if a VM-heavy setup warranted the faster drive.

Sorry, misread then. Ah, and good point about using a standard M.2 drive. Didn't have any M.2's handy tho, d'oh! I'll give everything a test later this week when I'm back off the road. That is one of the things I'm curious about...on my current 850, running multiple VM's can get slogged down a bit with read/writes. But I think now that's going to be more limited by the dual-core i5 than anything, which has constantly been pegging at 100% CPU usage during setup & testing. Really wish they offered a BRIX Pro-style model with a desktop quad-core chip. Of course, then it wouldn't be silent...tradeoffs everywhere :\

 

[Aikouka]

Since most of your issues seem to be with processing power, it seems like this new release from MSI is what you might need:

http://anandtech.com/show/10089/msi-rollsout-cubi-2-plus-sff-pcs-featuring-intels-sfx-platform

 

[cliftonite]

Is there an estimated release date for the Intel Skull Canyon with the i7?