NSA secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of citizens and businesses with help of phone companies

[eits]

Originally posted by: MadRat
TIA (Total Information Awareness) is alive and well.

transient ischemic attack?

nevermind... doctor joke.

 

[randym431]

Verizon is one of those freely giving up records. Does that mean I could cancel my verizon cell account and void their "contract" terms???
I'd love to dump verizon cell service, not just because of this but also because of what I consider their poor service and quality (at least in my area). But I have one whole year left on that two year contract, then they charge you some $150 fee each phone if you cancel before that contract is up. I'd think this issue, of cell phone records that I was (and everyone else) unaware of, could be fair grounds for canceling reguardless of any contract terms.
Anyone thought of calling verizon to press the issue?

Came across this in the first paragraph of verizon privacy agreement:

Your Privacy
8 We have a duty under federal law to protect the confidentiality of information about the quantity, technical configuration, type, destination, and amount of your use of our service, together with similar information on your bills. (This doesn't include your name, address, and wireless phone number.) Except as provided in this agreement, we won't intentionally share personal information about you without your permission.

Without my permission? I dont recall being notified they gave records to the fed, until I heard it on the news. I'm going to push this issue. Please join me if you feel they crossed the line (with your phone service company).

 

[Cristatus]

Originally posted by: NFS4
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

HUUUUUUUUUGE article

The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans ? most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

"It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.

For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made ? across town or across the country ? to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others...

In defending the previously disclosed program, Bush insisted that the NSA was focused exclusively on international calls. "In other words," Bush explained, "one end of the communication must be outside the United States."

As a result, domestic call records ? those of calls that originate and terminate within U.S. borders ? were believed to be private.

Sources, however, say that is not the case. With access to records of billions of domestic calls, the NSA has gained a secret window into the communications habits of millions of Americans. Customers' names, street addresses and other personal information are not being handed over as part of NSA's domestic program, the sources said. But the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information.

First of, I'd like to mention that I don't normally venture into P&N because it's mostly American politics, but I saw this thread in "My Forums".

Secondly: I can't guarantee that I'll come back and reply to the thread.

Now: looking at the italicized bits, I just wanted to say: does that mean that you will only be looking at calls to Pakistan? Afghanistan? Iraq? That doesn't make sense. What if people talk to their families? That's called unusual? Most people talk for up to an hour, and those same people could just as easily make a call less than a minute long.

There are easily a large number of "foreigners" in any country, even Canada, hell, even inside your own country. What's stopping people from contacting other people from inside your own country and setting up things? IIRC, two days ago I saw a news report on the London bombings, and apparently those people used to live in the UK, and probably mostly communicated in the UK itself.

How does it make sense to only look at international calls.

NOTE: I do not condone this anyways, it's stupid: period! But I'm just saying this because I wanted to think aloud, and get thoughts on it.

 

[morkinva]

Verizon stock takes hit on $50 billion lawsuit

Lawsuit asks Verizon and government to end phone snooping and seeks $1,000 for each of phone company's 50 million customers.
May 15, 2006: 12:01 PM EDT


NEW YORK (CNN) - A lawsuit is asking a federal court to order President Bush, the National Security Agency and Verizon to end a secret snooping program, and Verizon's stock took a hit on the news Monday....

 

[bersl2]

The database is already being abused.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: bersl2
The database is already being abused.

Looks like some of the Bush bootlickers here have paid the site a visit (and left their 2 cents)

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: morkinva
Verizon stock takes hit on $50 billion lawsuit

Lawsuit asks Verizon and government to end phone snooping and seeks $1,000 for each of phone company's 50 million customers.
May 15, 2006: 12:01 PM EDT


NEW YORK (CNN) - A lawsuit is asking a federal court to order President Bush, the National Security Agency and Verizon to end a secret snooping program, and Verizon's stock took a hit on the news Monday....

Awesome. :thumbsup: The only thing big telecom seems scared of are large lawsuits like this. And of course a hit to their stock price. Hit 'em where it hurts.

 

[randym431]

This is the reply to my email I sent to verizon. Shockingly, as you can read, they will not even still let "ME" know what info is involved from my account as to giving to the government.

I short, I sent another nasty email back to them. THE WAR IS ON!!!

====================================================
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is Jeffrey, and I am happy to assist you with your account concern.

We appreciate that the USA Today article and other reports about the possibility that the NSA is able to analyze local call data records is causing concern. Please be assured that Verizon Wireless places the highest value on protecting the privacy of our customers. Anything to do with the NSA is of course highly classified, so we can't comment on whether or not the news article causing concern is even accurate. But we can say that, to the extent that we cooperate with government authorities, we are confident that we are complying with all applicable statutes.

I am sorry to hear you are considering canceling your service over this issue. According to our records, you accepted a two-year customer agreement, which will expire on June, 2007. As per the Terms and Conditions of the Customer Agreement, if you cancel service prior to fulfilling your agreement, you will be charged an Early Termination Fee of $175.00 per line of service canceled.

Once your Customer Agreement expires, your wireless account will continue to be billed on a month-to-month basis until you call to request cancellation of your service or change to a different calling plan and promotion.

If you are still interested in canceling service, please contact our Customer Service Department at 800-922-0204 or airtime free from your wireless phone (*611). For security reasons, we need to speak with you to verify specific information. If you are intending on porting your number to another carrier, your Verizon Wireless service must remain active until the port is complete to ensure your wireless number(s) remain available.

We value your business and appreciate the opportunity to continue as your wireless service provider. Thank you for using Verizon Wireless products and services. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.

Sincerely,

Jeffrey
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"
=========================================================

Verizon should also add "and never stop spying on you, for the government".

The more I think about this, it makes me sick. They really think we are soooo affraid of terriost that we - AMERICANS - would just up our rights many many past wars have been fought to protect. This IS SHOCKING!
With enemies like GW Bush, who needs Bin Laden???

 

[DealMonkey]

Um. You really need to change your slogan there "Jeffrey" @ Verizon Wireless Customer Service - if that is your real name. "We never stop working for you!" isn't cutting it any longer. How about "We never stop spying on you?" That seems more representative of reality, dontcha think?

 

[WHAMPOM]

This is what should scare America silly! By obtaining your phone data in secret, they can do anything with it. A warrant would describe how to legally obtain and process the information. In other words, a warrant sets limits.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Well I hate it when I'm right.

I knew big telecom wouldn't allow you to cancel your service without paying the penalty.

I would personally cancel the service, report them to the BBB and refuse to pay the fine regardless of what they do.

But that's just me.

 

[MadRat]

If you can prove they illegally used your information or provided it illegally to an outside party then you can probably void the terms of the contract on grounds related to a breech of good faith.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: randym431
This is the reply to my email I sent to verizon. Shockingly, as you can read, they will not even still let "ME" know what info is involved from my account as to giving to the government.

I short, I sent another nasty email back to them. THE WAR IS ON!!!

====================================================
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is Jeffrey, and I am happy to assist you with your account concern.

We appreciate that the USA Today article and other reports about the possibility that the NSA is able to analyze local call data records is causing concern. Please be assured that Verizon Wireless places the highest value on protecting the privacy of our customers. Anything to do with the NSA is of course highly classified, so we can't comment on whether or not the news article causing concern is even accurate. But we can say that, to the extent that we cooperate with government authorities, we are confident that we are complying with all applicable statutes.

I am sorry to hear you are considering canceling your service over this issue. According to our records, you accepted a two-year customer agreement, which will expire on June, 2007. As per the Terms and Conditions of the Customer Agreement, if you cancel service prior to fulfilling your agreement, you will be charged an Early Termination Fee of $175.00 per line of service canceled.

Once your Customer Agreement expires, your wireless account will continue to be billed on a month-to-month basis until you call to request cancellation of your service or change to a different calling plan and promotion.

If you are still interested in canceling service, please contact our Customer Service Department at 800-922-0204 or airtime free from your wireless phone (*611). For security reasons, we need to speak with you to verify specific information. If you are intending on porting your number to another carrier, your Verizon Wireless service must remain active until the port is complete to ensure your wireless number(s) remain available.

We value your business and appreciate the opportunity to continue as your wireless service provider. Thank you for using Verizon Wireless products and services. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.

Sincerely,

Jeffrey
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"
=========================================================

Verizon should also add "and never stop spying on you, for the government".

The more I think about this, it makes me sick. They really think we are soooo affraid of terriost that we - AMERICANS - would just up our rights many many past wars have been fought to protect. This IS SHOCKING!
With enemies like GW Bush, who needs Bin Laden???

but since they are violating your contract with them by handing over the information they cant surely charge you

 

[randym431]

Can you believe, I got this email from a different verizon rep...

======================================================
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is Aimee, and I have provided the information you requested below.

There have been recent articles suggesting that the Federal Government has been collecting the phone records of potentially millions of Americans as part of the war on terror. The stories specifically reference customer records of landline companies, including AT&T and Verizon.

Verizon Wireless does not provide its customers' call records, or any information from those records, to the NSA. Any suggestion in news reports that it does is utterly false.

We value your business and appreciate the opportunity to continue as your wireless service provider. Thank you for using Verizon Wireless products and services. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.

Sincerely,

Aimee
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"
=========================================================

So now they just simple deny it???

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: randym431
Can you believe, I got this email from a different verizon rep...

======================================================
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is Aimee, and I have provided the information you requested below.

There have been recent articles suggesting that the Federal Government has been collecting the phone records of potentially millions of Americans as part of the war on terror. The stories specifically reference customer records of landline companies, including AT&T and Verizon.

Verizon Wireless does not provide its customers' call records, or any information from those records, to the NSA. Any suggestion in news reports that it does is utterly false.

We value your business and appreciate the opportunity to continue as your wireless service provider. Thank you for using Verizon Wireless products and services. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.

Sincerely,

Aimee
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"
=========================================================

So now they just simple deny it???

HAHA

I wonder which stupid manager wrote that canned response.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
This is what should scare America silly! By obtaining your phone data in secret, they can do anything with it. A warrant would describe how to legally obtain and process the information. In other words, a warrant sets limits.

I am concerned that this latest revelation over communications data mining is only the tip of the iceberg.

everyone knows that if you really want to find something or someone, you have to follow the cash flow. Phone calls and phone data mean next to nothing, financial records are where the real information is.

does this mean I need to buy me my first tin-foil cap?

 

[Pens1566]

Both Bell South and Verizon are now denying that they turned over the records to the NSA.

 

[randym431]

Both Bell South and Verizon are now denying that they turned over the records to the NSA.

Now the conspiracy begins...
Could the NSA agreed to allow phone companies to "deny" if caught?
Destroy all records, cover all tracks, and LIE LIE LIE sayeth GW and the NSA.

(and the plot...again...thickens)

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: randym431

Both Bell South and Verizon are now denying that they turned over the records to the NSA.

Now the conspiracy begins...
Could the NSA agreed to allow phone companies to "deny" if caught?
Destroy all records, cover all tracks, and LIE LIE LIE sayeth GW and the NSA.

(and the plot...again...thickens)

I find it interesting that BellSouth and Verizon not only claim they didn't hand over this info but that they weren't even asked for it. On the other hand, Quest admits being asked for it but refusing to hand it over.

 

[blackllotus]

AT&T also released a statement saying that while it has an "obligation" to assist government agencies "responsible for protecting the public welfare," it does so "strictly within the law and under the most stringent conditions" in order to protect customer privacy."

In other words "yes" they did turn over the records.

 

[BBond]

BTW, if it makes America feel any better, bush isn't just tracking YOUR calls, bush is tracking journalists' calls too.

So much for "free press" in bush's fascist oligarchy.

From Democracy Now! -- Headlines for May 16, 2006...

Report: Government Tracks Phone Calls of Journalists

In other news, a senior federal law enforcement official has admitted to ABC News that the government is now tracking phone calls made by journalists in an attempt to find out who is leaking information to the media. According to the report the government has focused on journalists from the New York Times, the Washington Post and ABC News. The disclosure comes just days after USA Today reported that Verizon, BellSouth and AT&T have handed over the phone records of millions of customers to the National Security Agency. On Monday one of the companies ? BellSouth ? denied giving the NSA customer calling records.

 

[Genx87]

So what is the latest on this story? I have heard everybody but AT&T that was mentioned in the story has said they arent part of this?

Is this another case of a journalist overblowing or getting hsi facts wrong?

 

[robphelan]

the statement bellsouth made was very specific that the "NSA" never had a "contract" with them to provide records.

people are theorizing that it was an arm of the NSA and it was an informal agreement.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: robphelan
the statement bellsouth made was very specific that the "NSA" never had a "contract" with them to provide records.

people are theorizing that it was an arm of the NSA and it was an informal agreement.

When people have to start theorizing then logic and rational thought is usually tossed out the window.

Outside of AT&T has any of the telco's mentioned admitted to doing this?
And I guess that I havent been paying too much attention but has AT&T even admitted to it?

 

[blackllotus]

Is Verizon even worth 50 billion? This lawsuit is justified, but it would bankrupt three major phone companies. I doubt it will suceed.