NSA Cheif on record : Election swayed by foreign entity

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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
136
Here's the long and short of it: the odds of recounts working entirely in Clinton's favor are slim. However, given Russian attempts to meddle in the election and the inconsistencies we've seen so far, it would be wrong to simply shoot down attempts at a recount. If it reinforces the existing decision, that's fine -- it shows that the vote was reasonably accurate, and Trump supporters can rest secure. However, if there are major discrepancies, whether due to botched counting or Russian interference, wouldn't you want to know?

A democracy is strong because it insists on checks and balances whenever there are concerns, not because it insists on a smooth transition of power at all costs.
 

Kazukian

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,034
650
91
Clinton conceded the election.

There's always some voter fraud, curious HRC's campaign has been silent on the recount issue, I wonder why?
 
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Reactions: highland145
Jan 25, 2011
17,103
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Clinton conceded the election.

There's always some voter fraud, curious HRC's campaign has been silent on the recount issue, I wonder why?
Probably because they don't see it as a serious, legitimate issue and don't see the value in compromising the long history of a peaceful transition of power to start raising a fuss over something completely unsubstantiated.
 

Kazukian

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,034
650
91
Probably because they don't see it as a serious, legitimate issue and don't see the value in compromising the long history of a peaceful transition of power to start raising a fuss over something completely unsubstantiated.

Agreed.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
You realize that left wing didn't care either, until they lost. Postponing the election was the prudent thing to do until it could get sorted out. It would have kept Obama in office another year, but no, left wing just wanted to rush Hillary into office because it was her turn and she wasn't getting any younger. Well now you lost. And it's your fault.

Postponing the election and Obama staying in office another year, seriously? The protests and riots now would seem like a rotary club meeting compared to what would happen the moment he announced that. Not to mention there is no legal precedence for him to do that that I am aware of. It would be an actual coup.
 
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raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
The side that lost would have been crying no matter if Hillary or Trump won. It's weird that Hillary is staying pretty quiet but her supporters are out there spending their time and energy. I mean, people are very much identified with their political heroes and heroines I guess. It's like people feel as if they've personally lost the election.

It's just another election cycle. Live your life.

The same liar that was in the White House will be replaced by another liar. The cycle will continue on until people realize the game. Unfortunately, people are playing this game more and are unaware that it is in fact a game.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,400
15,777
136
Think worst case. This may not be over. If the ruskies got something good on The Donald, the show may just be starting.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,604
17,164
136
The side that lost would have been crying no matter if Hillary or Trump won. It's weird that Hillary is staying pretty quiet but her supporters are out there spending their time and energy. I mean, people are very much identified with their political heroes and heroines I guess. It's like people feel as if they've personally lost the election.

It's just another election cycle. Live your life.

The same liar that was in the White House will be replaced by another liar. The cycle will continue on until people realize the game. Unfortunately, people are playing this game more and are unaware that it is in fact a game.

Keep spouting that bullshit! Both sides are not the same nor are both sides equally bad no matter how much you wish it to be true.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Keep spouting that bullshit! Both sides are not the same nor are both sides equally bad no matter how much you wish it to be true.
Of course both sides are not the same. You are given choices between the two to keep you feeling like some progress can be made by voting for your favorite candidate of the moment. The rulers aren't that stupid to have both parties believe in the same policies. They need to give the masses some choices to keep the game going.

As far as not being equally bad, it really doesn't matter in the bigger picture. Society in general is on a downward spiral and some of that can be attributed to how we are being conditioned. We are taught to pick sides: racial sides, religious sides, political sides, TV character sides, etc. We are conditioned to believe that we must belong to some organization, whether they have a D or an R in front of their name. Unfortunately, most people cannot look beyond this and are therefore reduced to little voting robots, blindly voting for their particular candidate.

People are totally unaware that the people in power would never let the ignorant massive have the power to change the political system. That is how the system works.
 

Kazukian

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,034
650
91
The side that lost would have been crying no matter if Hillary or Trump won. It's weird that Hillary is staying pretty quiet but her supporters are out there spending their time and energy. I mean, people are very much identified with their political heroes and heroines I guess. It's like people feel as if they've personally lost the election.

It's just another election cycle. Live your life.

The same liar that was in the White House will be replaced by another liar. The cycle will continue on until people realize the game. Unfortunately, people are playing this game more and are unaware that it is in fact a game.

I have no proof, but I suspect they're aware significant voter fraud will be found,
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,604
17,164
136
Of course both sides are not the same. You are given choices between the two to keep you feeling like some progress can be made by voting for your favorite candidate of the moment. The rulers aren't that stupid to have both parties believe in the same policies. They need to give the masses some choices to keep the game going.

As far as not being equally bad, it really doesn't matter in the bigger picture. Society in general is on a downward spiral and some of that can be attributed to how we are being conditioned. We are taught to pick sides: racial sides, religious sides, political sides, TV character sides, etc. We are conditioned to believe that we must belong to some organization, whether they have a D or an R in front of their name. Unfortunately, most people cannot look beyond this and are therefore reduced to little voting robots, blindly voting for their particular candidate.

People are totally unaware that the people in power would never let the ignorant massive have the power to change the political system. That is how the system works.

No, it's on a downward spiral because the electorate is getting lazier and lazier and you are a perfect example of that.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Keep spouting that bullshit! Both sides are not the same nor are both sides equally bad no matter how much you wish it to be true.


Democrats are worse, because they knew better since they were the gatekeepers and protectors of the working middle class when they sold out to corporate globalists,

but it's much easier to believe in the Russian bogeyman under your bed or some conspiracy in your head, something your can't do no wrong Democrats picked up from your Republican enemies.

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
Robert Reich
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election

What has happened in America should not be seen as a victory for hatefulness over decency. It is more accurately understood as a repudiation of the American power structure.

At the core of that structure are the political leaders of both parties, their political operatives, and fundraisers; the major media, centered in New York and Washington DC; the country’s biggest corporations, their top executives, and Washington lobbyists and trade associations; the biggest Wall Street banks, their top officers, traders, hedge-fund and private-equity managers, and their lackeys in Washington; and the wealthy individuals who invest directly in politics.

At the start of the 2016 election cycle, this power structure proclaimed Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush shoo-ins for the nominations of the Democratic and Republican parties. After all, both of these individuals had deep bases of funders, well-established networks of political insiders, experienced political advisers and all the political name recognition any candidate could possibly want.

It was the Democrats' embrace of neoliberalism that won it for Trump
Naomi Klein
Read more
But a funny thing happened on the way to the White House. The presidency was won by Donald Trump, who made his fortune marketing office towers and casinos, and, more recently, starring in a popular reality-television program, and who has never held elective office or had anything to do with the Republican party. Hillary Clinton narrowly won the popular vote, but not enough of the states and their electors secure a victory.
Hillary Clinton’s defeat is all the more remarkable in that her campaign vastly outspent the Trump campaign on television and radio advertisements, and get-out-the-vote efforts. Moreover, her campaign had the support in the general election not of only the kingpins of the Democratic party but also many leading Republicans, including most of the politically active denizens of Wall Street and the top executives of America’s largest corporations, and even former Republican president George HW Bush. Her campaign team was run by seasoned professionals who knew the ropes. She had the visible and forceful backing of Barack Obama, whose popularity has soared in recent months, and his popular wife. And, of course, she had her husband.

Trump, by contrast, was shunned by the power structure. Mitt Romney, the Republican presidential candidate in 2012, actively worked against Trump’s nomination. Many senior Republicans refused to endorse him, or even give him their support. The Republican National Committee did not raise money for Trump to the extent it had for other Republican candidates for president.

What happened?

There had been hints of the political earthquake to come. Trump had won the Republican primaries, after all. More tellingly, Clinton had been challenged in the Democratic primaries by the unlikeliest of candidates – a 74-year-old Jewish senator from Vermont who described himself as a democratic socialist and who was not even a Democrat. Bernie Sanders went on to win 22 states and 47% of the vote in those primaries. Sanders’ major theme was that the country’s political and economic system was rigged in favor of big corporations, Wall Street and the very wealthy.

he power structure of America wrote off Sanders as an aberration, and, until recently, didn’t take Trump seriously. A respected political insider recently told me most Americans were largely content with the status quo. “The economy is in good shape,” he said. “Most Americans are better off than they’ve been in years.”

Recent economic indicators may be up, but those indicators don’t reflect the insecurity most Americans continue to feel, nor the seeming arbitrariness and unfairness they experience. Nor do the major indicators show the linkages many Americans see between wealth and power, stagnant or declining real wages, soaring CEO pay, and the undermining of democracy by big money.

Median family income is lower now than it was 16 years ago, adjusted for inflation. Workers without college degrees – the old working class – have fallen furthest. Most economic gains, meanwhile, have gone to top. These gains have translated into political power to elicit bank bailouts, corporate subsidies, special tax loopholes, favorable trade deals and increasing market power without interference by anti-monopoly enforcement – all of which have further reduced wages and pulled up profits.

Donald Trump is moving to the White House, and liberals put him there
Thomas Frank

Read more
Wealth, power and crony capitalism fit together. Americans know a takeover has occurred, and they blame the establishment for it.

The Democratic party once represented the working class. But over the last three decades the party has been taken over by Washington-based fundraisers, bundlers, analysts, and pollsters who have focused instead on raising campaign money from corporate and Wall Street executives and getting votes from upper middle-class households in “swing” suburbs.

Democrats have occupied the White House for 16 of the last 24 years, and for four of those years had control of both houses of Congress. But in that time they failed to reverse the decline in working-class wages and economic security. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ardently pushed for free trade agreements without providing millions of blue-collar workers who thereby lost their jobs means of getting new ones that paid at least as well.

They stood by as corporations hammered trade unions, the backbone of the white working class – failing to reform labor laws to impose meaningful penalties on companies that violate them, or help workers form unions with simple up-or-down votes. Partly as a result, union membership sank from 22% of all workers when Bill Clinton was elected president to less than 12% today, and the working class lost bargaining leverage to get a share of the economy’s gains.

Bill Clinton and Obama also allowed antitrust enforcement to ossify – with the result that large corporations have grown far larger, and major industries more concentrated. The unsurprising result of this combination – more trade, declining unionization and more industry concentration – has been to shift political and economic power to big corporations and the wealthy, and to shaft the working class. This created an opening for Donald Trump’s authoritarian demagoguery, and his presidency.

Now Americans have rebelled by supporting someone who wants to fortify America against foreigners as well as foreign-made goods. The power structure understandably fears that Trump’s isolationism will stymie economic growth. But most Americans couldn’t care less about growth because for years they have received few of its benefits, while suffering most of its burdens in the forms of lost jobs and lower wages.

Trump won. Now we organize to block him, every step of the way
Kate Aronoff
Read more
The power structure is shocked by the outcome of the 2016 election because it has cut itself off from the lives of most Americans. Perhaps it also doesn’t wish to understand, because that would mean acknowledging its role in enabling the presidency of Donald Trump.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Democrats are worse, because they knew better since they were the gatekeepers and protectors of the working middle class when they sold out to corporate globalists,

but it's much easier to believe in the Russian bogeyman under your bed or some conspiracy in your head, something your can't do no wrong Democrats picked up from your Republican enemies.

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
Robert Reich

Please. Anybody who believes that Repubs or Donald Trump will do better than Dems is in for a very big disappointment.

What have Repubs done for working people in the last 20 years?
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I am looking forward to the working class discovering what Trump and the GOP has in store for them.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Why would I be okay with any of those scenarios (not sure how you would even read into something like that based on my response)? if there was actual evidence I would be pissed... but I am calling bullshit on this though.

And if the U.S. bombs ISIS is it not unreasonable to expect they may try to do some damage within the United States? Very moronic to think that one would approve of ISIS detonating a bomb in the U.S. because we blew up a few some jihadi convoys.

If the U.S. screws around with Russia's neighbors it is not unreasonable to assume they would try to retaliate in some manner. But again the NSA has a long way to go to earn my trust which, again, is why I think this is all crap.

You Need to think a little more when attempt to counterpoint using flawed thought processes. I don't know... maybe re-read what you typed a couple of times before you hit the post button.

Don't pretend you'd pissed at anything that results in a win for your side. That rather assumes conservatism is based on facts & ethics which is not only objective but definitionally untrue.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Democrats are worse, because they knew better since they were the gatekeepers and protectors of the working middle class when they sold out to corporate globalists,

but it's much easier to believe in the Russian bogeyman under your bed or some conspiracy in your head, something your can't do no wrong Democrats picked up from your Republican enemies.

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
Robert Reich

Liberals really are low T cucks.

Get backstabbed by rust belt rednecks and first thought is how to appease them some more.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,314
690
126
Liberals really are low T cucks.

Get backstabbed by rust belt rednecks and first thought is how to appease them some more.
? What is your solution? Even if they are what you accuse them of being, that does not change the fact that they can backstab some more for a long time to come. Disparaging them is one way to motivate them.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Liberals really are low T cucks.

Get backstabbed by rust belt rednecks and first thought is how to appease them some more.

Please. Don't blame the victims. We've all been subjected to decades of very effective right wing agitprop. Too many of us have been caught up in it.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
? What is your solution? Even if they are what you accuse them of being, that does not change the fact that they can backstab some more for a long time to come. Disparaging them is one way to motivate them.

They need to be reminded that elections have consequences. You don't stop losing at the prisoner's dilemma by being the nice guy, eg centrists always willing to meet everyone in the middle as they keep stepping backwards.

Please. Don't blame the victims. We've all been subjected to decades of very effective right wing agitprop. Too many of us have been caught up in it.

The buckshot/legendkiller/trumps and the 70k+/yr supporters in general are not victims, they're beneficiaries of the system. One where they can backstab with impunity.