NSA breaks privacy rules "thousands of times per year"

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,577
9,958
136
because a program setup to be ripe for abuse will never be abused.... right Mr. Clapper?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/15/politics/nsa-privacy-rules/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The NSA broke privacy rules "thousands of times each year" since 2008, The Washington Post reported Thursday, citing an internal audit and other documents.

Material was provided to the newspaper this summer by National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden.

The audit found 2,776 incidents of "unauthorized collection, storage, access to or distribution of legally protected communications," the Post reported in its story.

"Most were unintended. Many involved failures of due diligence or violations of standard operating procedure. The most serious incidents included a violation of a court order and unauthorized use of data about more than 3,000 Americans and green-card holders," it said.

The audit was dated May 2012 and looked at the prior 12 months.
Obama: Doing the dishes to regain trust

The NSA responded to the Post's story, saying "a variety of factors can cause the numbers of incidents to trend up or down from one quarter to the next."

Factors can include implementation of new procedures, technology or software changes and expanded access.

"The one constant across all of the quarters is a persistent, dedicated effort to identify incidents or risks of incidents at the earliest possible moment, implement mitigation measures wherever possible, and drive the numbers down," the agency said.

Snowden stepped forward publicly in June to claim responsibility for leaking to the media that the NSA had secretly collected and stored millions of phone records from accounts in the United States. The agency also collected information from U.S. companies on the Internet activity of overseas residents, he said.

Snowden fled first to China and then to Russia before Moscow granted him temporary asylum despite pressure from the Obama administration to return him to the United States to face charges.

He has been charged with three felony counts, including violations of the U.S. Espionage Act, for the leaks.

sadly nothing will come of this. much like folks on wall street not getting sent to jail for crippling the economy domestically and internationally, literally millions of counts of civil liberties violations will simply be swept under the rug.

NSA is "too big to fail"
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
So if I "unintentionally" point a gun at you and pull the trigger it should just be forgotten because I said it was unintentional?
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
So if I "unintentionally" point a gun at you and pull the trigger it should just be forgotten because I said it was unintentional?

Shooting someone a major thing, collecting minor incidental data is not.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
You said "or." That implies that the infractions were either minor or they were unintended. As if you're excusing them simply because they "didn't mean to."

Typically, in the private sector, negligence costs people their jobs. I wonder who will get fired over this.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
You said "or." That implies that the infractions were either minor or they were unintended. As if you're excusing them simply because they "didn't mean to."

Typically, in the private sector, negligence costs people their jobs. I wonder who will get fired over this.

Such things are beyond our need to know.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Remember when Obama said
If you look at the reports, even the disclosures that Mr. Snowden’s put forward, all the stories that have been written, what you’re not reading about is the government actually abusing these programs and, you know, listening in on people’s phone calls or inappropriately reading people’s e-mails.

What you’re hearing about is the prospect that these could be abused. Now part of the reason they’re not abused is because they’re — these checks are in place, and those abuses would be against the law and would be against the orders of the FISC

He lied.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...snt-actually-abusing-its-powers-he-was-wrong/
 

Brigandier

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2008
4,395
2
81
A few thousnad a year is like a few a day with a Friday party of busting a perp illegally.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. I'm sorry if you claim your SUV for taxes, you deserve to rot in hell.
 

Angry Irishman

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2010
1,883
1
81
A few thousnad a year is like a few a day with a Friday party of busting a perp illegally.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. I'm sorry if you claim your SUV for taxes, you deserve to rot in hell.

Double post
 
Last edited:

Angry Irishman

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2010
1,883
1
81
A few thousnad a year is like a few a day with a Friday party of busting a perp illegally.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. I'm sorry if you claim your SUV for taxes, you deserve to rot in hell.

Having nothing to hide is really not the point or is it the danger. With that line of thinking I might as well invite a federal agent to sit at the end of my bed or at the dinner table. I should just ignore the guy because I've got nothing to hide.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
A few thousnad a year is like a few a day with a Friday party of busting a perp illegally.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. I'm sorry if you claim your SUV for taxes, you deserve to rot in hell.

I want nudes of you and your family. bank statements, and keys to your house...

you have nothing to hide so its cool. and I promise I wont do anything bad with anything you give me
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
A few thousnad a year is like a few a day with a Friday party of busting a perp illegally.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. I'm sorry if you claim your SUV for taxes, you deserve to rot in hell.

I have nothing to hide from people I trust. Is there any good reason for me to trust the NSA?
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
I'm still wondering why he hasn't defected to North Korea.

I think we should put a camera in Brig's & DCal's bedroom and have a live feed streaming in Time's Square and also on a special free TV station for everybody to watch. I mean.... If they have nothing to hide they won't mind right??
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,184
107
106
big deal, nothing but minor or unintentional violations.

Thank you for your infinite librul wisdom. I forgot that the government doesnt need to follow their laws as long as you perceive their infractions to be "minor".
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,055
48,057
136
I love this. Their next excuse will be it wasn't a lie because he didn't know. Watch.

You guys are so overwhelmed with ODS that you've just lost your minds.

On what planet are you on where you think Obama wasn't referring to what behavior is permissible under regulations? That's like if Obama said "The FBI is not a drug dealing organization" and then you find out that an FBI agent has been dealing in violation of the law. Is Obama somehow a liar for that? Sweet jesus.

I personally find it likely that whatever safeguards are being used to prevent unauthorized searches aren't nearly strong enough, and that's a problem. I don't think Obama has been nearly forthcoming enough on this and that's a problem too. For about seven years now I've been arguing that the oversight provisions for warrantless wiretaps is woefully insufficient. Funny thing is that conservatives only started having a problem with it around January, 2009.

That being said, these articles basically tell us nothing as we don't know how many of these violations were caused by deliberate or indifferent action and how many were caused by simple mistakes. I for one am not outraged by inadvertent action caused by a typo, and I'm sure if this were anyone but Obama you wouldn't be either.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,055
48,057
136
I just looked into this more and more than 2/3rds of the incidents (about 1,900 of the 2,700) involved cases where a foreign target being wiretapped went from being outside the US (no warrant required) to being inside the US (warrant required) without the NSA realizing it quickly enough. SUCH SCANDAL.

The issue here has been, and always has been, how horrible the scope of things that can be done LEGALLY is, not stupid crap like this.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
17,714
9,599
136
On what planet are you on where you think Obama wasn't referring to what behavior is permissible under regulations? That's like if Obama said "The FBI is not a drug dealing organization" and then you find out that an FBI agent has been dealing in violation of the law. Is Obama somehow a liar for that? Sweet jesus.

In your hypothetical example, if the FBI had been given (or given itself) official sanction to deal drugs, then someone's (who was responsible for such an instruction), head needs to go on the block, figuratively speaking.

Or, if rules against drug dealing were in place yet were disregarded, not enforced or laughably lax rules were in place regarding the security of seized drugs, then someone in authority has to figuratively swing for it.

Or, if someone was given official instructions to deal drugs, but when news of this reaches the public, people in authority deny everything and let the person who got caught red-handed swing for it, that would be wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability

Just to confirm that I'm not a complete idiot though, just because someone in the FBI were to deal drugs, it does not result in Obama being a liar or having broken some promise or held some opinion about the FBI.

Re the main topic:

However, in any organisation big enough, there will always be some rules being broken (with intent or not). The question is, does the organisation take reasonable steps to the head of it to reasonably have a clear conscience when they say that their organisation is law-abiding. Considering the NSA's apparent track record of serial dishonesty, I can't say I have much faith in them, or the intelligence community in the UK either when they trot out the usual crap like "the greater good", "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear", and "we trust the US with all of our stuff".

One other thing I should point out however, the rule for the general public is "ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law", and especially in an organisation whose job is security, they should know the rules with regard to security.

The problem with saying "oh, lots of these were minor offences", is that one or a few such "minor offences" combined with a security breach from an external source (or say leaving a laptop on a train), could lead to catastrophic results. Also factor in "familiarity breeds contempt", the fact that a lot of government entities don't know the difference between password protection and encryption, and an organisation that perhaps doesn't take privacy seriously enough combined with insufficient security, it may as well be a trading station for criminals and foreign powers.
 
Last edited:

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
I just looked into this more and more than 2/3rds of the incidents (about 1,900 of the 2,700) involved cases where a foreign target being wiretapped went from being outside the US (no warrant required) to being inside the US (warrant required) without the NSA realizing it quickly enough. SUCH SCANDAL.

The issue here has been, and always has been, how horrible the scope of things that can be done LEGALLY is, not stupid crap like this.

Do you get paid to be a spokesperson for this administration?