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NRA in turmoil, gun manufacturers going bankrupt, Thanks Trump

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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,362
3,037
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But we're not talking about small civillian arms. Those aren't even the weapons everyone is afraid of when they push the 'we need to get rid of guns' agenda.
Anything legal to own in the US is a small civilian arm.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
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Anything legal to own in the US is a small civilian arm.
point taken but assault rifles would be given to anyone they deemed worthy. They have no need for top of the line military grade equipment to push a coup along. We're not talking first world countries.

Go ask them. You obviously have a very low opinion of the intelligence and moral fiber of our military.

And predictions for society's doom have been around for almost as long as society itself. Usually from someone selling something. I have faith we can handle whatever challenges come our way, including climate change.
I'm prior and a vet. It's not about the opinion of the military but the people who control them. I'm not talking about some obvious coup. It all starts with the 'it's in your best interest and safety'.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
I know, I know, there is something amazingly special about the United States that means that what worked in every other country in the world won't work here.

I've said many times before that we don't need to repeal the 2A, all we need is to reinterpret it to it's original concept and make 'well regulated militia' an important requirement again.
Yes there is. We have far larger number of gun in existence, we have the right to gun ownership guaranteed by our constitution and we were founded on the ideals that this is a free, democratic country. For better or worse, that is who we are as a country and culture.

The well regulated militia was intended to be a STATE militia to protect against overreach by the federal government. So each state gets to decide it's own gun laws so they can have a group of armed individuals ready to serve if they deem it necessary to call them up. It was never a requirement that those armed individuals serve, just that there should be no federal prohibition to their right to be armed. Pretty much what we have now.

If you are going to fall back on the "original" intent of the 2A then at least be honest.

EDIT: but I do agree that the intent of all laws is what really matters. Not the letter or specific details often used to try and subvert the overall intent. The 2A was written to protect the states from the fed and to protect the individual from government. Arguing that it only extends to muskets or doesn't cover "assault weapons" is trying to subvert it's overall purpose.

Telling citizens: "Here's a single-shot shotgun that cost $25k in fees and licencing to use once per year to hunt pheasants with. You have to keep it locked in a secure gun club facility, can check it out with exactly two shells for it, but we haven't banned guns. There's your 2A rights for you. Happy?" <--- doesn't really cut it.
 
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Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
point taken but assault rifles would be given to anyone they deemed worthy. They have no need for top of the line military grade equipment to push a coup along. We're not talking first world countries.



I'm prior and a vet. It's not about the opinion of the military but the people who control them. I'm not talking about some obvious coup. It all starts with the 'it's in your best interest and safety'.
So the reason the people shouldn't be armed is because you feel their constitutional rights and our democracy in general could be overthrown, but only slowly over time? I'm not sure what we are arguing here.

It was suggested that it's ridiculous to keep arms as a final check on government tyranny. I strongly disagree. But now it's sounds like you are arguing that since the military wouldn't be on our side, and could be basically tricked into going along with a gradual end to democracy, that we should ban civilian gun ownership because it won't help anyway?

It feels like we are going in circles and productive debate has ended.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
So the reason the people shouldn't be armed is because you feel their constitutional rights and our democracy in general could be overthrown, but only slowly over time? I'm not sure what we are arguing here.

It was suggest that it's ridiculous to keep arms as a final check on government tyranny. I strongly disagree. But now it's sounds like you are arguing that since the military wouldn't be on our side, and could be basically tricked into going along with a gradual end to democracy, that we should ban civilian gun ownership because it won't help anyway?

It feels like we are going in circles and productive debate has ended.
You misunderstood me, I should have clarified, I'm against gun banning. I was just discussing your take on the how it would go down and why I'm against taking weapons away from those who can handle it as most pro gun banning think of it as FUD because 'history' means nothing I guess. "Tricked' isn't really the word I would use though.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,489
12,002
136
NRATV folds production:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/us/nra-nratv-ackerman-mcqueen.html#click=https://t.co/F6Q1Uf7f7J

The National Rifle Association has shut down production at NRATV.

The N.R.A. on Tuesday also severed all business with its estranged advertising firm, Ackerman McQueen, which operates NRATV, the N.R.A.’s live broadcasting media arm, according to interviews and documents reviewed by The New York Times.

While NRATV may continue to air past content, its live broadcasting will end and its on-air personalities — Ackerman employees who included Dana Loesch — will no longer be the public faces of the N.R.A.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
8,463
5,643
136
Not feeling any real sympathy for Loesch and crew. They were particularly vile people who dismissed tragedies and made thinly-veiled threats. Hopefully NRATV itself folds due to a lack of viewers.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,352
25,079
136

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
27,828
13,641
136
I'm sure some of the Trump acolytes here will up their donations to the NRA to get them back on the air :)
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
8,463
5,643
136
This is getting better and better.

Interesting there isn’t more outrage among conservatives that the organization they donated all that money to basically stole it and went shopping. This isn’t even particularly uncommon for right wing political organizations though so maybe that’s why?
That might actually be part of it. If you're used to voting for a party that never delivers meaningful tax cuts and social support to someone at your income level, what's donating to a bunch of corrupt, anti-democratic lobbyists, really?
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,154
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NRA should have been shut down long ago. They were paying tens of millions of dollars a year and in January they had something like 49,000 unique visitors for the entire month.

Add to that the fact that of late most of their programming had nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment and was more right wing ranting about immigrants and everything else it served no purpose.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,394
4,041
126
Good fucking riddance to the NRA. What started as a ignoble venture with questionable underpinnings has turned into fearmongering and propaganda.
FTFY. I can see nothing noble when it concerns guns beyond absolute gun control.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,394
4,041
126
Actually having small arms did made the Resistance effective against Nazis during WWII. Why do you think the US went out of the way to provide them with to those fight them?
How relevant is that in today's world? Guerrilla warefare exists, yes, not really in the USA, though.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,340
14,562
136
NRA should have been shut down long ago. They were paying tens of millions of dollars a year and in January they had something like 49,000 unique visitors for the entire month.

Add to that the fact that of late most of their programming had nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment and was more right wing ranting about immigrants and everything else it served no purpose.
It served GOP purposes just fine. It just didn't reach as large an audience as they'd hoped for.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,019
1,865
136
The death of NRATV is a national tragedy and cannot stand. We, as red-blooded, God-fearing, WHITE, Christian AMERICANS must do everything in our immense power to undo this travesty and prevent anything like it from EVER happening again.

Thoughts and prayers.


Whew! I feel so much better now that I know I've done everything I can to solve this very important issue.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,394
4,041
126
I seem to remember an advertisement on TV from around a couple of years ago, a super buff male on an outdoors target shooting range rousting the faithless (er... "faithful") and nearing the end of it saying something to the effect that the anti-gun folks were ultimately trying to ban guns entirely. Well, TBH, that's what I want.
- - - -
What is now proved was once only imagined. — William Blake
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
61,333
5,171
126
I mean, you should be able to run a business on thoughts and prayers alone. Get gud NRA.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
I watch the Outdoors Channel on occasion and I think there are a few shows on there sponsored by the NRA, but nothing political. The shows I enjoy mostly just talk about the history of old guns. I've never felt any desire to plug myself in to the NRATV fear machine.

I hope this meltdown with the NRA forces the rational gun owners to speak up. Too much overblown hyperbole and fear mongering on both sides, IMHO.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,228
21,264
146
What about, "..the right of the people, to keep and bear arms."?
I like how your use of ellipses ignores the other part of these consitutional words that are pretty much quite relevant and provides further context and more meaning to the declared right. ...but this is the same NRA nutball tactic of reinterpreting the constitution that they have been doing for the last 30 or 40 years. Only these words matter! Not those others in that sentence!
 
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