Now We All See the Genius of AMD Going Lowend First

[zinfamous]

390 has borked numbers in there for some reason, but it still doesn't affect the overall picture.

It just affects your endorsement of the numbers.

same poll, yet:

--one strange and puzzling set of numbers is obvious and accurate to you
--one strange and puzzling set of numbers is obviously borked and misrepresentative to you.

Clearly it's just one set of numbers that is wrong, and not the polling methodology that could be effecting all of the numbers, right?

I think I see the problem.

 

[Madpacket]

That was one store though, he was taking those numbers from a UK store. RX 480 did sell in one day what Pascal did in a month, but NV earnt much more revenue/profit. 🙂

Now I don't expect globally it is that ratio.

But for those looking at the Steam surveys, surely you can see that the top GPUs are NOT expensive parts.

It's the 750ti, 950, 960 and 970 ($299 to $329 is vastly different to $449 to $699).

If you add up the total %, it's actually about right, 85:15, ie. 85% of the gamers do buy ~$300 and less.

Think outside of your own 1st world wealthy scenarios for a bit and know that the rest of the world, have much less disposable income than we do.

Also, why the heck are we debating whether the vast majority of the market buy cheaper GPUs? This is proven time & again throughout the history of graphics cards.

Well said.

As good as the 1070/1080 are they're prohibitively expensive hence the 15%.

480's are in the sweet spot given DX12/Vulcan/Asyc capabilities. Punch above their weight is the term I keep seeing thrown around and it's true. The 1060 no doubt will dominate DX11 benchmarks but DX12 w/Async the Rx480 should keep a small lead which could widen as devs get a handle on it.

 

[railven]

The 480 will be AMD's best selling card this year. As long as yields stay high I predict it'll even outsell the 1060. Let's check back in Jan 2017 and see how this pans out.

Well that's a given. 480 invalidated 390/390X and makes any of the Fury flavors look overpriced.

At the current price it makes the 380/380X pointless.

There is basically only one card to recommend for AMD currently.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well said.

As good as the 1070/1080 are they're prohibitively expensive hence the 15%.

480's are in the sweet spot given DX12/Vulcan/Asyc capabilities. Punch above their weight is the term I keep seeing thrown around and it's true. The 1060 no doubt will dominate DX11 benchmarks but DX12 w/Async the Rx480 should keep a small lead which could widen as devs get a handle on it.

A big part of it now, is that they are really more card than is needed for 1080p gaming, which is where most gamers still play. As (if) VR and higher resolution monitors catch on, I think it is quite likely that more cards will be sold in the higher price brackets.

 

[AtenRa]

Well that's a given. 480 invalidated 390/390X and makes any of the Fury flavors look overpriced.

At the current price it makes the 380/380X pointless.

There is basically only one card to recommend for AMD currently.

Same is true for NV, 1070 and 1080 just made any 970/980/980Ti/R9/Fury and Titan obsolete.
RX 480 made any card from $199 to $299 (both AMD and NVIDIA) obsolete.

Only the sub $199 cards are left (from both AMD and NV) and those are going to be obsolete really soon with the launch of RX 470 and 460.

So the situation in August will be $99 to $299 14nm cards for AMD and $249 to $799 16nm cards for NV, until December. Every other 28nm card except the sub $99 market will be obsolete.

 

[Gikaseixas]

At the current price it makes the 380/380X pointless.

And the 1070 at the current price makes both GTX980 and GTX980TI pointless

There is basically only one card to recommend for AMD currently.

So what? There's basically only two cards to recommend for NV currently

Why only point the obvious on the AMD side. It's biased posts like this that this forum doesn't need.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Seriously? No more biased that pointing out the "captain obvious" statement that 480 will be the best selling card. Since it is the only card on 14nm, it would be a fail of colossal proportions if it were not.

 

[Dresdenboy]

I've searched this thread and neither found "China" nor "India" being mentioned here.

I think, we should step back a bit from our westerner's view and see the world as a whole without blinds. Some here discuss power consumption as would one kWh cost north of 20 cents in most parts of the world. Some see products as turds if they don't beat the leader in many or all aspects.

So it might be helpful to include different kinds of markets with their needs and determining factors in these discussions about the usefulness of products, like China and India for example. Just look at all the business AMD and others are doing there, incl. whole R&D teams, joint ventures, and production sites.

 

[IllogicalGlory]

The 390 series hasn't even been counted (at all) until now for some reason. I don't think the data is wrong, just the wait between the card being available and the data making it out. Looks like a pretty decent seller.

Hopefully, we'll see 480 numbers next month.

 

[Madpacket]

Seriously? No more biased that pointing out the "captain obvious" statement that 480 will be the best selling card. Since it is the only card on 14nm, it would be a fail of colossal proportions if it were not.

I guess I should have quantified my prediction.

There will be two more 14nm cards at lower price points very soon. However the $199 4GB Rx480 hits the sweet spot (price/performance) for mainstream 1080P gaming and entry level VR (although VR still isn't ready for mass adoption yet, it's just being used for marketing purposes by both sides). Thats why I'm "predicting" it'll outsell the 460/470 and probably the Geforce 1060 this year.

It's just a guess but I don't see anything else really competing with it. If the leaked 1060 benchmarks are real, they're not big enough of a difference to warrant the price premium. Now I'll change my tune if Nvidia takes a hair cut on margins and prices the 1060 more competitively.

Besides gaming the real elephant in the room is crypto currency mining. The 480 has proven to be the optimal mining card. Geforce cards have always lagged behind in this area and given the specs, the 1060 will not dethrone the 480, or even if it could Geforce cards simply do not work well under Windows for mining ether (which a ton of miners start out on).

Speaking of Ethereum - it isn't going away and the DAG algorithm is effectively ASIC resistant so the demand for 480's (and likely 470's) will continue to escalate. Even some of the larger government subsidized Bitcoin mining farms in China are starting to stand up Ether farms.

Any semi serious miner has at least 10 - 15 GPU's running. So even if miners make up a tiny fraction, they buy up a disproportionate amount of cards.

 

[Silverforce11]

I've searched this thread and neither found "China" nor "India" being mentioned here.

I think, we should step back a bit from our westerner's view and see the world as a whole without blinds. Some here discuss power consumption as would one kWh cost north of 20 cents in most parts of the world. Some see products as turds if they don't beat the leader in many or all aspects.

So it might be helpful to include different kinds of markets with their needs and determining factors in these discussions about the usefulness of products, like China and India for example. Just look at all the business AMD and others are doing there, incl. whole R&D teams, joint ventures, and production sites.

Already did!

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38362289&postcount=199

Think outside of your own 1st world wealthy scenarios for a bit and know that the rest of the world, have much less disposable income than we do.

 

[tweakboy]

I disagree on that note,

 

[Dresdenboy]

Already did!

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38362289&postcount=199

+1 So I'm not alone with this. 😉

 

[railven]

Same is true for NV, 1070 and 1080 just made any 970/980/980Ti/R9/Fury and Titan obsolete.
RX 480 made any card from $199 to $299 (both AMD and NVIDIA) obsolete.

Only the sub $199 cards are left (from both AMD and NV) and those are going to be obsolete really soon with the launch of RX 470 and 460.

So the situation in August will be $99 to $299 14nm cards for AMD and $249 to $799 16nm cards for NV, until December. Every other 28nm card except the sub $99 market will be obsolete.

And the 1070 at the current price makes both GTX980 and GTX980TI pointless



So what? There's basically only two cards to recommend for NV currently

Why only point the obvious on the AMD side. It's biased posts like this that this forum doesn't need.

WTH? I'm responding to a poster who is making a point about an AMD product, why would I throw Nvidia into his post?

Look in the mirror if you want to see bias.

EDIT: ie, it's obvious the 480 is going to be AMD's best seller. Now if you want to turn it into NV vs AMD, something tells me 1060 will outsell 480. Since you guys brought it up.

 

[poofyhairguy]

something tells me 1060 will outsell 480.

I personally don't think so, at least not unless Nvidia can find a way to get WAY more supply from TMSC. Just logically if they had the availability to match 480 supply with the 1060 it would be smarter to push that capacity towards 1070 wafers that could lead to a 970-style sales boom.

I personally think they are about to basically paper launch the 1060 to try and get people to hold off buying a 480, and weeks after "launch" it will be way easier to actually buy a 480 than a 1060 from Amazon, Newegg, etc near MSRP.

Hell Newegg still has a bunch of 970s in stock for $270-$300. There seems to huge lag between what we know we can buy from announcements and what we can actually buy in 2016.

 

[railven]

I personally don't think so, at least not unless Nvidia can find a way to get WAY more supply from TMSC. Just logically if they had the availability to match 480 supply with the 1060 it would be smarter to push that capacity towards 1070 wafers that could lead to a 970-style sales boom.

I personally think they are about to basically paper launch the 1060 to try and get people to hold off buying a 480, and weeks after "launch" it will be way easier to actually buy a 480 than a 1060 from Amazon, Newegg, etc near MSRP.

Hell Newegg still has a bunch of 970s in stock for $270-$300. There seems to huge lag between what we know we can buy from announcements and what we can actually buy in 2016.

If we're arguing immediate sales, I'd agree with you. Lifetime of the products, I have no reason to not think 1060 would outsell 480. Get the itching suspicion even 470 will outsell 480 end of both their runs.

If NV can put out the stock at the start, then even more chance of it outselling 480.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Look in the mirror if you want to see bias.

Nope, no need. One just has to look at your posts to see it.

EDIT: ie, it's obvious the 480 is going to be AMD's best seller. Now if you want to turn it into NV vs AMD, something tells me 1060 will outsell 480. Since you guys brought it up.

I couldn't care less if it sells better than the 480 and see that's where people like you and me differ, i just care if it's actually a better performing card and i might actually buy it for my HTPC instead of getting the 480.

People here care too much how well certain corporations perform financially as if JHH getting richer will suddenly make their gaming experience that much better LOL

 

[railven]

Nope, no need. One just has to look at your posts to see it.

Hmmmm...okay. My third GeForce card in 20+ years of PC gaming, but I'm NV Bias. This is hilarious.

I couldn't care less if it sells better than the 480 and see that's where people like you and me differ, i just care if it's actually a better performing card and i might actually buy it for my HTPC instead of getting the 480.

Odd, don't care but will post a rebuttal.

People here care too much how well certain corporations perform financially as if JHH getting richer will suddenly make their gaming experience that much better LOL

JHH is already rich. Super rich. Me making him richer is AMD's fault. Give me something to buy day1. I'm tired of the "well in 6+ months it will be faster" defense. They've had my money locked for almost a decade (throw in the ATI days outside one brief romance with GeForce 8800s, I've only owned AMD/ATI cards in my personal rig.) But they decided they didn't want it any more.

Yeah, I'm definitely bias. 🙄 Can't make this stuff up.

 

[Gikaseixas]

My third GeForce card in 20+ years of PC gaming

This how easily you were influenced :biggrin:

Odd, don't care but will post a rebuttal.

It's a forum, get over yourself bro. We're here to discuss and not caring about corp financials doesn't mean i don't care to counter certain silly arguments i read here

JHH is already rich. Super rich. Me making him richer is AMD's fault. Give me something to buy day1. I'm tired of the "well in 6+ months it will be faster" defense. They've had my money locked for almost a decade (throw in the ATI days outside one brief romance with GeForce 8800s, I've only owned AMD/ATI cards in my personal rig.) But they decided they didn't want it any more.

Good for him, he deserves it IMO.
Now, 480 could be bought day 1, much better availability than other launches but i guess you missed that somehow. :whiste:

 

[AtenRa]

I'm tired of the "well in 6+ months it will be faster" defense.

They already are Faster, most AAA games coming onward are DX-12/Vulkan, no need to wait 😉

 

[railven]

This how easily you were influenced :biggrin:

Influenced? Right, now we're back to the ad hominem. Welps, guess that's all there is really.

It's a forum, get over yourself bro. We're here to discuss and not caring about corp financials doesn't mean i don't care to counter certain silly arguments i read here

Get over myself? Is this like the go to for people when they can't think of something better? What does that even entail? I'll never understand some English idioms.

Good for him, he deserves it IMO.
Now, 480 could be bought day 1, much better availability than other launches but i guess you missed that somehow. :whiste:

I'd rather wait for the AIBs. But I'm use to waiting with AMD lately :/

 

[Sweepr]

They already are Faster, most AAA games coming onward are DX-12/Vulkan, no need to wait 😉

Faster than what? Kepler/Maxwell? Won't be faster than GTX 1080/1070 that are running in enthusiast PCs before Polaris even got to the market, maybe a few % faster than GTX 1060 in their Gaming Evolved titles (still slower overall), but let's see the impact of this in actual sales. 🙂

 

[AtenRa]

I'd rather wait for the AIBs. But I'm use to waiting with AMD lately :/

Nobody forced you to wait for the AIBs, reference models at MSRP prices (not FE prices) were available day 1. 😉

 

[railven]

They already are Faster, most AAA games coming onward are DX-12/Vulkan, no need to wait 😉

Yeah, like that DX12 list of games you recited to me before? Which seems to always change in the worse possible way.

I'll take your posts more credibly when we get that 90% of GTX 1080 on the RX 480. So at the current rate, maybe in 2017 😉

EDIT:

Nobody forced you to wait for the AIBs, reference models at MSRP prices (not FE prices) were available day 1. 😉

Who said I was forced? I chose to wait. Unfortunately AMD's ref model isn't up to what their prior models. AMD gave me no reason to buy their ref models. Where as I bought Ref 4870/5870/5870 Eye6/7970 and as far back as the 9700 Ref models.

Why spend $240 when $20 can get something most likely better? But I'm use to waiting. So it's all good. 😉

 

[AtenRa]

Faster than what? Kepler/Maxwell? Won't be faster than GTX 1080/1070 that are running in enthusiast PCs before Polaris even got to the market, maybe a few % faster than GTX 1060 in their Gaming Evolved titles (still slower overall), but let's see the impact of this in actual sales. 🙂

Faster in its category, you know $199/239 not $420-799 😉