Now We All See the Genius of AMD Going Lowend First

[IllogicalGlory]

Forza 6 isn't a full game. Plus it's crippled by UWP. But I agree, that if Pcars is tested, it's probably fair to include Hitman or AotS to balance it out.

 

[Silverforce11]

Forza 6 isn't a full game. Plus it's crippled by UWP. But I agree, that if Pcars is tested, it's probably fair to include Hitman or AotS to balance it out.

Forza isn't crippled, it's relatively bug free, smooth release compared to Quantum Break. It runs excellent, I've tested it myself when it was released.

Performance is excellent on all GPUs.

Ashes isn't even that AMD biased in numbers (10%?), if you want AMD bias, you test Quantum Break and make sure to test during combat and not cutscenes (frame capped cutscenes). A 390 is like 90% faster than a 970 during combat scenes in that game.

https://youtu.be/zK2BUeYqLVI?t=58s

I've seen enough side-by-side gameplay to know how much faster AMD is in Quantum Break, so when I see the results on HardwareCannucks, I know they tested a walking scene or a cutscene where everything is closer together. It's the little things some of these sites do, subtle... but Doom OpenGL is anything but subtle.

It's got mass coverage a week ago, gamers know the real story with that game and Vulkan.

 

[IllogicalGlory]

The 60 FPS lock makes it difficult to get meaningful benches from it. I guess you test it on 144Hz display.

 

[sirmo]

The 60 FPS lock makes it difficult to get meaningful benches from it. I guess you test it on 144Hz display.

It's even funnier than that it's a 50 fps lock..

 

[raghu78]

Hardware.fr has used the XFX Black Edition in their GTX1060 Review:
The card uses 60-80W more than the GTX1060 Founders Edition while in average 4% slower.

AIB's only hope is that AMD will reduce the MSRP of the RX 480 so that they can undercut the GTX1060.

You keep complaining of DX12 / Vulkan games being AMD biased while quoting a review which has Project Cars which is the worst example of a biased game. Talk of double standards.

 

[Silverforce11]

The 60 FPS lock makes it difficult to get meaningful benches from it. I guess you test it on 144Hz display.

There's no FPS lock anymore on UWP. Both UWP & DX12 games got patched up months ago.

 

[HiroThreading]

Sufficient to say, AMD has no worry on the console front for such a long time span as to be not worth discussing. Project Scorpio is nearly a year and a half away from launching and will have AMD. Even if the old 7-8 years is now 3-4 with refreshes, that gives at least 2020 for AMD guaranteed. And refreshes only make it more likely to maintain the same arch.

It is a very rare opinion indeed to say AMD is threatened in the console space. Don't get dug in a hole defending one invalid part of your argument. As you said, Nvidia has plenty of other strengths but AMD = consoles for a while.

I never said AMD is threatened in the console space. I said that if Nvidia deems consoles as a threat they can easily move in. Strategically, this is very different. There's no artificial barrier preventing either Nvidia or Intel from moving in.

All it takes is a very energy efficient and die space efficient CPU and GPU paired over PCI-E and then bam you have a console. CPUs are basically SOCs nowadays, so that solves most of the I/O problems that have plagued designs in the past.

Let's not forget that we've seen CELL (Sony, Toshiba, IBM), PowerPC (IBM), Pentium III, ATI and Nvidia chips go into consoles over the previous two generations. There is no special magic preventing the console makers from jumping ship if they deem it as beneficial.

My original point still stands -- I would like to see AMD release something to compete with GP100 in the HPC space. In fact, I'll say that they must release something competitive their if they wish to compete with Nvidia going forward into the future.

I certainly hope that big Vega is a Pascal (and Pascal's successor?) crushing chip.

 

[Bacon1]

Forza 6 isn't a full game. Plus it's crippled by UWP. But I agree, that if Pcars is tested, it's probably fair to include Hitman or AotS to balance it out.

The 60 FPS lock makes it difficult to get meaningful benches from it. I guess you test it on 144Hz display.

It's even funnier than that it's a 50 fps lock..

This tells me you guys haven't even bothered to play either game.

Framerate was never locked to 50, let alone 60fps. It was locked to your refresh rate. There was a bug in quantum break which limited it for some people (wasn't limited for me ever).

UWP also allows uncapped frame rates for a while now.

https://youtu.be/s8B7pMGo0Yw

That is from Forza at release and shows him getting over 65 fps on his 75hz monitor.

 

[sirmo]

This tells me you guys haven't even bothered to play either game.

Framerate was never locked to 50, let alone 60fps. It was locked to your refresh rate. There was a bug in quantum break which limited it for some people (wasn't limited for me ever).

UWP also allows uncapped frame rates for a while now.

https://youtu.be/s8B7pMGo0Yw

That is from Forza at release and shows him getting over 65 fps on his 75hz monitor.

Yeah I was just commenting on that video from Digital Foundry where they were locked at 50fps.

 

[littleg]

I never said AMD is threatened in the console space. I said that if Nvidia deems consoles as a threat they can easily move in. Strategically, this is very different. There's no artificial barrier preventing either Nvidia or Intel from moving in.

All it takes is a very energy efficient and die space efficient CPU and GPU paired over PCI-E and then bam you have a console. CPUs are basically SOCs nowadays, so that solves most of the I/O problems that have plagued designs in the past.

Let's not forget that we've seen CELL (Sony, Toshiba, IBM), PowerPC (IBM), Pentium III, ATI and Nvidia chips go into consoles over the previous two generations. There is no special magic preventing the console makers from jumping ship if they deem it as beneficial.

My original point still stands -- I would like to see AMD release something to compete with GP100 in the HPC space. In fact, I'll say that they must release something competitive their if they wish to compete with Nvidia going forward into the future.

I certainly hope that big Vega is a Pascal (and Pascal's successor?) crushing chip.

AMD have an advantage in that they are the only current manufacturer who can provide both x86 and a GPU. Having an x86 processor powering the consoles makes porting games an easier process and isn't something I can see the console makers going back on. Microsoft is heavily invested in their 'Windows Everywhere' thing which makes an x86 XBox virtually a necessity for them.

Added to this is the fact that the only way for Nvidia to enter this space would be in partnership with a CPU manufacturer and so the already thin margins would be further eroded if they had any chance of being competitive.

There's always a possibility that Intel could come in if they decided to properly get into making GPUs but there's been no indication from them that it's even a consideration at this point. Plus, for Intel anyway, the console market and the low margins therein is chicken feed.

 

[sirmo]

AMD have an advantage in that they are the only current manufacturer who can provide both x86 and a GPU. Having an x86 processor powering the consoles makes porting games an easier process and isn't something I can see the console makers going back on. Microsoft is heavily invested in their 'Windows Everywhere' thing which makes an x86 XBox virtually a necessity for them.

Added to this is the fact that the only way for Nvidia to enter this space would be in partnership with a CPU manufacturer and so the already thin margins would be further eroded if they had any chance of being competitive.

There's always a possibility that Intel could come in if they decided to properly get into making GPUs but there's been no indication from them that it's even a consideration at this point. Plus, for Intel anyway, the console market and the low margins therein is chicken feed.

Intel has tried on multiple occasions but failed. Larabee which eventually became Knight's Landing.

Intel's $1.7B licensing deal with Nvidia for their iGPUs is coming to an end at the beginning of next year. I don't think they are excited about signing a new one, especially since Nvidia and Intel are pretty big competitors now days in the HPC space.

I could actually see Intel going with AMD this time.. since I am pretty sure AMD would be cheaper, and AMD is all about licensing their tech out, but that's pure speculation.

There has also been a rumor of RTG being bought out by Intel, but I don't see that either. Just don't see AMD giving up the one thing that's keeping them alive. And they finally seem to be looking like turning back to profitability.

Next 12 months will be the most interesting in this space in a long time.

 

[linkgoron]

I never said AMD is threatened in the console space. I said that if Nvidia deems consoles as a threat they can easily move in. Strategically, this is very different. There's no artificial barrier preventing either Nvidia or Intel from moving in.

From what I understand, most console games are programmed in a more low level way than DX11. If you want games to work on both the newer Xbox/PS and the older one, I'm not sure if using AMD on one and Nvidia on the other is that easy.

Let's not forget that we've seen CELL (Sony, Toshiba, IBM), PowerPC (IBM), Pentium III, ATI and Nvidia chips go into consoles over the previous two generations. There is no special magic preventing the console makers from jumping ship if they deem it as beneficial.

Sure, but it requires two contracts with two different companies instead of one contract with AMD. Possible, but more difficult, not to mention that integration is easier when only working with one company.

 

[sontin]

We don't know that for certain.

Powercolor announced the Red Devil for $269: http://videocardz.com/62489/powercolor-announces-radeon-rx-480-red-devil-for-269-usd#disqus_thread

$20 more than the cheapest GTX1060 for the same performance and <=80W more power.

 

[AtenRa]

Powercolor announced the Red Devil for $269: http://videocardz.com/62489/powercolor-announces-radeon-rx-480-red-devil-for-269-usd#disqus_thread

$20 more than the cheapest GTX1060 for the same performance and <=80W more power.

I will suggest we first wait for the actual Red Devil reviews and then make conclusions like the one you just did.

 

[Zstream]

I will suggest we first wait for the actual Red Devil reviews and then make conclusions like the one you just did.

What's the difference between this and the reference card, outside of the fan and 8 pin? I just bought an accelero mono plus for my reference card.

 

[zinfamous]

What's the difference between this and the reference card, outside of the fan and 8 pin? I just bought an accelero mono plus for my reference card.

Hard to say how each aftermarket vendor designed their cards, but ASUS provided some details on their STRIX earlier showing different power profiles with their 2 custom 480s--drawing power only from the PSU (do you only need an 8pin and that just happens by default, or do you also need to engineer the board in some way?)

They also release at various custom stock clocks with assumed differences in max clock potential. There is also the assumption that the chips these vendors received for their boards are binned differently and/or the simple understanding that having had them on hand longer ahead of expected release, they have designed boards and settings to better work with voltage/clocks whatever than the reference models.

It's also unknown if custom 4gb boards (if they exist--it seems that there is a 4gb Nitro, at least) will actually be 4gb or locked-out 8gb boards like the reference boards.

 

[Zstream]

Hard to say how each aftermarket vendor designed their cards, but ASUS provided some details on their STRIX earlier showing different power profiles with their 2 custom 480s--drawing power only from the PSU (do you only need an 8pin and that just happens by default, or do you also need to engineer the board in some way?)

They also release at various custom stock clocks with assumed differences in max clock potential. There is also the assumption that the chips these vendors received for their boards are binned differently and/or the simple understanding that having had them on hand longer ahead of expected release, they have designed boards and settings to better work with voltage/clocks whatever than the reference models.

It's also unknown if custom 4gb boards (if they exist--it seems that there is a 4gb Nitro, at least) will actually be 4gb or locked-out 8gb boards like the reference boards.

Makes sense. I guess I'll do some benchmarking, along with temp monitoring and do a before/after type thing.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Makes sense. I guess I'll do some benchmarking, along with temp monitoring and do a before/after type thing.

Please let us know how it goes! I might emulate you down the road.

 

[Piroko]

Not entirely sure where to post this so I'll drop it into the marketing related thread.

This is what gibbo over at ocuk had to say about the GTX1060 launch:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=29803290&postcount=1333

I've had to put an order in for more Fury today with Sapphire because the sales exploded when reviews came out.

If it was my personal money I'd take £299 Fury over a £299 1060 and it seems many customers today made that exact same decision.

Today has being a huge success, 100's of 1060's sold, RX-480 sales boosted, Fury deal sales exploded, RX 480 Nitro absolutely exploded and 1070 sales also rocketed.

Seems like the market sees more shades of grey than most individuals in here.

 

[sontin]

I will suggest we first wait for the actual Red Devil reviews and then make conclusions like the one you just did.

Here is a preview of the Asus RX 480 Strix: https://www.computerbase.de/2016-07/asus-radeon-rx-480-strix-test/2/#abschnitt_benchmarks_in_full_hd

Default as fast as the GTX1060 FE in the five games. Even with an increased powerlimit it is slower than a MSI GTX1060. Power consumption is way higher (~200W vs. 120-140W for the MSI).

Like i said: A price cut is necessary that these AIBs can survive.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Interesting that a 480 does so much worse than Hawaii at Farcry Primal. Wonder what is going on there?

 

[sontin]

I think it is bandwidth. Dont forget that AMD had a huge advantage with this.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

Here is a preview of the Asus RX 480 Strix: https://www.computerbase.de/2016-07...trix-test/2/#diagramm-the-witcher-3-1920-1080

Default as fast as the GTX1060 FE in the five games. Even with an increased powerlimit it is slower than a MSI GTX1060. Power consumption is way higher (~200W vs. 120-140W for the MSI).

Like i said: A price cut is necessary that these AIBs can survive.

Strix isn't the best aftermarket cooler around, also that's all DX11 titles half of which tend to be NVidia skewed and the RX 480 looks pretty good in all of those FPS comparisons. 50 watts more for DX11 performance parity and better DX12 and Vulkan performance at very close to the same cost is the bottom line here.

You can spin it however you like but both the GTX 1060 and RX 480 present excellent values for a market segment that was in need of it. Both are compelling products and no amount of you bashing the RX 480 makes that any less true. It comes down to what titles someone plays, and how long they hold onto their cards that is going to determine what card gets recommended. You also can't discount the value proposition of cheaper FreeSync monitor with an RX 480 as a longer term solution than a GTX 1060 with a G-Sync alternative for $200 more.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

Interesting that a 480 does so much worse than Hawaii at Farcry Primal. Wonder what is going on there?

I thought the same thing, the RX 480 should have a much better showing in this game as the launch reviews were pretty brand agnostic.

 

[AtenRa]

Here is a preview of the Asus RX 480 Strix: https://www.computerbase.de/2016-07/asus-radeon-rx-480-strix-test/2/#abschnitt_benchmarks_in_full_hd

Default as fast as the GTX1060 FE in the five games. Even with an increased powerlimit it is slower than a MSI GTX1060. Power consumption is way higher (~200W vs. 120-140W for the MSI).

Like i said: A price cut is necessary that these AIBs can survive.

How nice of you to post a link with ONLY 5 games of which 4 of them are GameWorks and not even one DX-12/Vulkan.

But even in GameWorks titles like Witcher 3 and COD Black Ops III, RX 480 STRIX is faster than GTX 980, something that GTX 1060 doesnt manage to do

If you take out Anno2205, average performance will be completely different.