Now that we *ARE* going over the Fiscal Cliff, lets look at early 2013

[JEDI]

CNN Update at 12/31/12 ~4:30pm:

"The House of Representatives won't vote on any plans to avert the fiscal cliff on Monday, leaders have told members. "


i predict more gridlock and do nothing in early 2013.

remember when the death tax expired? everyone thought congress will fix it quickly. well it didnt and no deth tax that year.
A notable winner from that fiasco: George Steinbrenner's (owner of the Yankees) heirs. no death tax on his billions

because of the death tax debacle, there's even a small chance Congress does nothing for all of 2013 to fix anything from the fiscal cliff.
it might be the new status quo...

How about you?

 

[Brainonska511]

Repost: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2292978

 

[Wreckem]

The death tax never expired.

It was zero that 1 year because that was the Bush and Republican Congress legislated it do do that. They phased it down yearly with it set to zero for 1 year and then the legislation was to sunset(was passed via reconciliation so it had to sunset unless renewed) making the estate tax set to pop back to a $1million exemption with a 55% in 2011. However, with the two year extension of the Bush tax cuts, the estate tax got set at a $5million exemption and a 35% rate until 2013 when all the tax cuts were to set to expire.

The estate tax/death can never expire unless repealed/changed. If nothing is passed it reverts to $1million exemption and a 55% rate.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Who will the American populace blame? The Democrats or the Republicans? I put the blame fully on the Republicans for this mess. They're the ones who created the commotion over the debt ceiling which ultimately resulted in the cliff problem.

 

[raildogg]

Who will the American populace blame? The Democrats or the Republicans? I put the blame fully on the Republicans for this mess. They're the ones who created the commotion over the debt ceiling which ultimately resulted in the cliff problem.

Please move beyond Democrats and Republicans.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Please move beyond Democrats and Republicans.

This^^^

Both parties of Congress and the President are equally to blame. They all made the shit sandwich now we have to eat it.

Also, Obama's leadership, supposed leadership, is no where to be found. Making the rounds on the Sunday news circus blaming the other guy doesn't entail leadership. Someone needs to be facilitating these discussions and they pick Biden....wow.

Don't think that either side isn't getting exactly what they really want. This way they can just finger point and sling shit across the Hill while all the while diverting the blame from themselves.

 

[IronWing]

Way it looks now is that we'll spend the interim between now and when the Treasury again uses up all its accounting tricks to postpone reaching the debt ceiling with pointless arm waving. As that deadline approaches we'll see the can kicked down the road again. What we won't see is comprehensive tax reform, comprehensive fiscal reform, nor a budget for FY13. Remember when Congress used to pass annual budgets? We'll get a continuing resolution with rescissions and a lot of squawking.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Who will the American populace blame? The Democrats or the Republicans? I put the blame fully on the Republicans for this mess. They're the ones who created the commotion over the debt ceiling which ultimately resulted in the cliff problem.

The debt problem neatly exposed that the "emperor had no clothes". (Politicians in charge have no backbone) :thumbsup:

It was a accumulation of Congress over the years to continually max out it's credit cards and instead of stopping excessive spending and putting the fiscal house in order, the again ate trying to sign up for two more cards that year. One card was to take cash advances to make minimum payments on existing cards. The other card was to keep on spending on items not needed.

Congress has always chosen to not worry, but leave the headache for the following suckers.

What the debt ceiling did is force the issue that no one wanted to address. A couple years ago, smoke and mirrors were used to buy time. Because of that trick, everyone expected another hocus pocus. Now that did not happen, the next option was to play bluff poker using two decks. That has failed, each player wad dealt the same hand

So now that Congress would not do their job, the cliff occurs. People who designed it, knew that there needed to be teeth just in case Congress failed. Smart thinking on their part.

 

[KlokWyze]

This^^^

Both parties and the President are equally to blame. They made the shit sandwich now we have to eat it.

Also, Obama's leadership skills suck.

The GOP gets their votes on emotional, religious, socially "conservative" issues, but their only real goal is too fuck everyone except the rich over. The Dems are shit in many ways, but the GOP is openly anti-middle/lower class. Period. They literally and openly employ tactics that hurt everyone.

 

[Angry Irishman]

The GOP gets their votes on emotional, religious, socially "conservative" issues, but their only real goal is too fuck everyone except the rich over. The Dems are shit in many ways, but the GOP is openly anti-middle/lower class. Period. They literally and openly employ tactics that hurt everyone.

Oh I don't disagree but you think the Democrats are doing the country any favors with the "help" it provides the middle class or better yet illegal aliens? Really? The government needs to keep to following the Constitution and stop helping by putting us in economic ruin.

 

[Xellos2099]

it is more like they were hoping some kind of boom would ease the issue like internet and housing boom back then. It fail and obama pet projecty solar energy boom fail and now they don;t know what to do with no boom.

 

[techs]

It was beyond the Founding Fathers comprehension that elected officials would seek to damage the very country they govern.
Apparently they never met the modern Republican Party.

 

[Angry Irishman]

It was beyond the Founding Fathers comprehension that elected officials would seek to damage the very country they govern.
Apparently they never met the modern Republican Party.

Now you're just trolling....or really that ignorant and brainwashed. I'm really not sure.

 

[techs]

Now you're just trolling....or really that ignorant and brainwashed. I'm really not sure.

Yeah. First holding the debt ceiling "hostage", Republican word, not mine. Which added a quick 20 billion to the deficit and which every responsible economist has said was a major drag on the economy. Now the "fiscal cliff" which is caused further drag. And in a few months the Republicans plan on holding the economy hostage again when the debt ceiling comes up.

And, amazingly, the debt ceiling means nothing about spending more money. It means paying back money we owe. Incredibly, money the Republicans voted to spend.

If that's not intentionally damagin the country I don't know what is.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Yeah. First holding the debt ceiling "hostage", Republican word, not mine. Which added a quick 20 billion to the deficit and which every responsible economist has said was a major drag on the economy. Now the "fiscal cliff" which is caused further drag. And in a few months the Republicans plan on holding the economy hostage again when the debt ceiling comes up.

And, amazingly, the debt ceiling means nothing about spending more money. It means paying back money we owe. Incredibly, money the Republicans voted to spend.

If that's not intentionally damagin the country I don't know what is.

I think you're missing the point all together.....you have no criticism of the Democratic party? At all?

Keep living in your utopia.

Oh, and as far as damaging the country....this zealot alignment with one party or the other is damaging this country. When I was a kid I was taught in middle school that the key to American politics was compromise none of which either party is partaking in right now or for some time.

I do blame the President for engaging in these same practices and not leading regardless of his party affiliations. Crazy concept but there are so many in Congress and politics in general who really have no idea what the entails.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Yeah. First holding the debt ceiling "hostage", Republican word, not mine. Which added a quick 20 billion to the deficit and which every responsible economist has said was a major drag on the economy. Now the "fiscal cliff" which is caused further drag. And in a few months the Republicans plan on holding the economy hostage again when the debt ceiling comes up.

And, amazingly, the debt ceiling means nothing about spending more money. It means paying back money we owe. Incredibly, money the Republicans voted to spend.

If that's not intentionally damaging the country I don't know what is.

And not one single Democrat voted on any spending bill?

Both sides are at fault. Trying to place the blame on only one is how we got to such a situation in the first place.

One has to pay their bills. One also needs to live within their means. If not voluntarily, the line of credit should be shut off!

 

[kage69]

This^^^

Both parties of Congress and the President are equally to blame. They all made the shit sandwich now we have to eat it.

Also, Obama's leadership supposed leadership is now where to be found. Making the rounds on the Sunday news circus blaming the other guy doesn't entail leadership. Someone needs to be facilitating these discussions and they pick Biden....wow.

Don't think that either side isn't getting exactly what they really want. This way they can just finger point and sling shit across the Hill while all the while diverting the blame from themselves.

Except, they're not.


I don't think anyone involved is completely blameless, but illustrating anyone as having the same level of fault as the collective fuckstain we know as the GOP is just flat out wrong, or they're trying to shelter those fools from the scorn they rightly deserve.
I don't expect Obama to do Congress' job, but it would have been nice if his party grew a little backbone and wasn't afraid to get dirty.


Both parties do it, both parties are to blame... when will this bad false equivalency joke die? It's so old it could vote!

No one gets everything they want in DC deals. Like, ever. It's always been that way and doesn't support your 'pointing the finger' notion at all.
The pubs having been blaming Obama for everything, they don't need a Congressional norm to help them with it.



Obama's leadership sucks? Maybe if you're the partisan type still having issues with him spanking the competition. I wouldn't call him ideal, but after he pursued and got the most wanted man in the world, showed nepotistic idiots like Bush how you handle a hurricane, got something done with healthcare instead of kicking it down the road for another 19 years or so...

It's sucked for republicans though, sure.

 

[kage69]

The GOP gets their votes on emotional, religious, socially "conservative" issues, but their only real goal is too fuck everyone except the rich over. The Dems are shit in many ways, but the GOP is openly anti-middle/lower class. Period. They literally and openly employ tactics that hurt everyone.

*applause*

 

[Angry Irishman]

Except, they're not.


I don't think anyone involved is completely blameless, but illustrating anyone as having the same level of fault as the collective fuckstain we know as the GOP is just flat out wrong, or they're trying to shelter those fools from the scorn they rightly deserve.
I don't expect Obama to do Congress' job, but it would have been nice if his party grew a little backbone and wasn't afraid to get dirty.


Both parties do it, both parties are to blame... when will this bad false equivalency joke die? It's so old it could vote!

No one gets everything they want in DC deals. Like, ever. It's always been that way and doesn't support your 'pointing the finger' notion at all.
The pubs having been blaming Obama for everything, they don't need a Congressional norm to help them with it.



Obama's leadership sucks? Maybe if you're the partisan type still having issues with him spanking the competition. I wouldn't call him ideal, but after he pursued and got the most wanted man in the world, showed nepotistic idiots like Bush how you handle a hurricane, got something done with healthcare instead of kicking it down the road for another 19 years or so...

It's sucked for republicans though, sure.

Not one thing you've just said is based in fact....except "No one gets everything they want in DC deals"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

 

[chowderhead]

Who will the American populace blame? The Democrats or the Republicans? I put the blame fully on the Republicans for this mess. They're the ones who created the commotion over the debt ceiling which ultimately resulted in the cliff problem.

People should look in the mirror for someone to blame. The voters keep voting the same people in. We want money for nothing and programs without supporting the money needed to pay for them. 2 wars were funded on a credit card and tax cuts for everyone! Don't cut my sacred cows! Cut someone else's. Take a poll of the American people and I will wager a large percentage believe foreign aid is one of the largest pieces of the budget. Everyone needs to sacrifice for the mistakes that were made in the past but voters keep reelecting the same people because most are in safe districts so they need only to worry about not getting a primary challenger from their base.

 

[KlokWyze]

Oh I don't disagree but you think the Democrats are doing the country any favors with the "help" it provides the middle class or better yet illegal aliens? Really? The government needs to keep to following the Constitution and stop helping by putting us in economic ruin.

Yeah they definitely buy votes with a lot of that BS. Like I said, both parties are corrupt in different ways and I honestly dislike both, but the GOP economic stances are reprehensibly bad. This is not an exaggeration.

I can understand the reasoning behind anti-abortion laws. I don't agree, but I can see why some people are strongly against abortion.

The GOP's defence of the rich's assets at all costs is incredibly bad. Indefensible on essentially any and all points. Utterly bizarre. Can someone who supports this ideological servitude of the wealthy explain it to me? :hmm:

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Except, they're not.


I don't think anyone involved is completely blameless, but illustrating anyone as having the same level of fault as the collective fuckstain we know as the GOP is just flat out wrong, or they're trying to shelter those fools from the scorn they rightly deserve.
I don't expect Obama to do Congress' job, but it would have been nice if his party grew a little backbone and wasn't afraid to get dirty.


Both parties do it, both parties are to blame... when will this bad false equivalency joke die? It's so old it could vote!

No one gets everything they want in DC deals. Like, ever. It's always been that way and doesn't support your 'pointing the finger' notion at all.
The pubs having been blaming Obama for everything, they don't need a Congressional norm to help them with it.



Obama's leadership sucks? Maybe if you're the partisan type still having issues with him spanking the competition. I wouldn't call him ideal, but after he pursued and got the most wanted man in the world, showed nepotistic idiots like Bush how you handle a hurricane, got something done with healthcare instead of kicking it down the road for another 19 years or so...

It's sucked for republicans though, sure.

It sucks for Democrats too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/fiscal-cliff-deal_b_2390067.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...fiscal-cliff/?wprss=rss_economy&tid=pp_widget
And now, with the House giving all the leverage to Obama by actually taking us over the cliff, he has Biden working up support for the deal that was supposed to keep us off it.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/12/what_are_we_still_doing_here.php?ref=fpblg
Of course all that does pull the rug out from under the "it's both sides' fault" crowd. Obama is clearly not playing his hand to its fullest in what I have to assume is an honest attempt to actually get something done but he's just making the gridlock worse. The extreme right doesn't respect compromise, and the more he caves, the less willing they are to accept "yes" as an answer.

 

[Lemon law]

Repost: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2292978

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As in MHO, OP, what a damn fool thing to post. As your link refers to a result of going over the fiscal cliff as of 12/31/2012, as a wiser Jedi OP on this thread asks the more pertinent question, " Now that we *ARE* going over the Fiscal Cliff, lets look at early 2013?"

As I can say three things. (1) All more P&N speculation maybe point granted. (2) As we look at the election of 11/2012, the GOP emerged weaker, as Obama was re elected, and the democratic party has a larger majority in the US Senate, and the GOP has a much smaller majority in the US House. (3) Why are most P&N posters concentrating on just GWB era tax cuts sun setting, when the far greater threat to the US economy are the draconian cuts to to US military and social spending that are likely to send the US fragile economy into a severe recessions or a depression! (4) A severe recession or depression is exactly not in the interests of the wealthy Americans who fund the GOP. And very likely, on 1/1/2013 the very wealthy who fund the GOP, will be sending strongly worded messages to GOP Senators and Congressmen and women, that they have gone way way too far. (5) As for all US voters, the pain of falling over the fiscal cliff, the pain will be immediate and lasting in unprecedented ways.

As my only prediction is as follows, when the 2013 congress and Senate conveniences in early 2013, there is one more chance. As McConnell may no longer be the US Senate minority leader and more likely John Boehner will no longer be sqeaker of the House. And with better GOP leadership, it may be possible to get a win win compromise rapidly. Failing that we may be talking about Boehgner Hogs and Boehner villes, just as we talked about Hoover villes and Hoover Hogs 80 years ago. And by 2014, there will be few Republicans who can win re election for dog catcher.

 

[DCal430]

I place around 70-80% of the blame on Republicans and around 20-30% on the democrats. The Republicans definitely deserve the vast majority of the blame. They don't give a shit about the people just the rich.

 

[kage69]

Not one thing you've just said is based in fact....except "No one gets everything they want in DC deals"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

I'm not sure which I like more; you retreating from the portion of your post that I specifically addressed, or the end there where you are agreeing with me that your prior attempt to sound informed over Congressional deal making isn't actually the important note you tried to make it sound like.

Oh no wait, a lame Billy Madison youtube link instead of showing anything to substantiate your remarks. Well played sir!

*golf clap*


Please continue this comical display, I approve.