Now, that the Windows (Bay Trail, 8-inch) tablets are here...

[AnitaPeterson]

Hi folks,

It looks like 2014 may very well be the year in which Windows tablets can finally become both affordable and useful.

There's already a thread in this sub-forum, which praises the Dell Venue 8 Pro. Acer has now issued the W4 (which addresses all the screen shortcomings of the W3), Toshiba has a device which not only sports HDMI, but also integrates a GPS chip, Lenovo gets rave reviews for its slim and light Miix 2, and the Wacom-equipped ASUS is already making many people reach for their wallets. Most of these have 2 GB RAM, and quad-core Atoms, and the following wave is sure to bring 4 GB of RAM and 64-bit support (and perhaps higher resolutions).

So I'm wondering: Could this be the watershed moment for full Windows (none of that RT nonsense!) tablets? After all, guaranteed compatibility with the enormous number of applications and games already on the market should make a pretty good case for going back to Microsoft.

Do you have one already? Please post some opinions. Do you use it as much as you previous (Android/Apple) tablet? Do you use a stylus? Are you pleased with the way it handles media and its processing capabilities? Is the limited amount of RAM affecting your usage? Do you find that there are programs you can't run - not necessarily because of the small screen, but because the touch interface or other limitations?

 

[paperwastage]

i have the 10" Asus T100

2GB RAM sounds small, but it's enough for me given the use case of my device.

the problem of getting backwards compatibility with Windows application is the backwards compatibility part - few of these programs have touch navigation in mind when they were designed/implemented, so it's going to be hard navigating using the touch screen (this is why I got the T100 with the keyboard dock, because I knew it'll be complicated if I only had the touch screen)

I wish there was an android port working on my device. a large use case of my T100 undocked would be like an iPad/Android device replacement - on the subway/commute watching movies. the built-in Metro movie player isn't as polished as existing Android apps (eg scroll left/right to fast forward x seconds,..)

 

[Ravynmagi]

There are already laptops shipping with 4GB and Baytrail processors. Not sure if that patch that manufactures have been waiting for has happened yet or not. But I imagine 4GB tablets can't be much further off now.

I have a Dell Venue 8 Pro. It's a great piece of hardware and I got it for a steal at $200 during the Microsoft Store's holiday sale. And It seems like it's often selling for $230 these days.

However my go to tablets are still my Nexus 7 2013 and iPad Mini 2. The app quality is still significantly better. There are a few gems in the Windows store, there is a Manga app that I love on my Windows tablet more than anything I've found on iOS and Android. And Modern IE is awesome for web browsing because I love the full screen experience if offers and the swipe gestures.

But other than a couple great apps I use, things go to crap quickly after that. I'd love to read my Kindle books on my 8 inch Windows tablet, but the Kindle app is absolute garbage on Windows, Nook app seemed even worse (which surprised me since Microsoft gave B&N money and are partners or something). There is no YouTube app and I haven't found a quality third party YouTube app yet (Tube Lite was okay, but appears to be out of date and a lot of the features don't work correctly anymore).

I dunno if 2014 will be the year. Android has great apps, but there is still a quality difference between it an iOS and Android has quite a bit more market share than Apple these days. But the developers still coddle iOS because they apparently make more money on that platform.

I think it'll be even more of a challenge for Windows, they are still way back in third place. And they are the third consideration when it comes to app development. I don't think it's going to get better that quickly.

 

[code65536]

Dell Venue 8 Pro here.

I was excited about the prospect of a real Windows on a tablet. But it turns out that using the Windows desktop on an 8" touchscreen isn't really the best of experiences. There are a few things that I do on the desktop side, and I'm glad to have that as an option, but most of my usage has been with Metro.

I also have a Nexus 7. But now my N7 is basically collecting dust. Much to my surprise (since I used to be in the I-hate-Metro camp because I approached Metro as a keyboard/mouse users), Metro as a touch interface is actually pretty good, once I got used to its gesture-heavy way of doing things. And the on-screen keyboard is so much better than the on my N7.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Oh yeah. And Windows RT is definitely dead. Only Microsoft and soon to be Microsoft owned Nokia make RT tablets, and only 1 each at that. Everyone else abandoned the silly idea.

The $500 Surface 2 would be selling like hotcakes if Microsoft had only put a Baytrail SoC and Windows 8.1 on it. I would have definitely bought it. So I hope Microsoft will finally concede defeat on Windows RT soon.

 

[quikah]

There is a 4GB windows tablet available now. Fujitsu Q584, but it costs the same as a Surface Pro! HP is coming out with 64-bit/4GB tablet, Elitebook 1000 and propad 600, I don't see a need for 64-bit on a tablet personally.

I am planning to buy a 10" windows tab, still spinning my wheels on which one, they all have a bad flaw. I really dislike the 16:9 AR most have.

Asus t100 - poor resolution, 16:9
HP Omni - dumb port placement and no keyboard dock option
Miix 2 10 - has a really dumb keyboard doc mechanism, seems like a lot of reports of bugs
Dell venue11 - 16:9, kind of expensive with keyboard
Fujitsu - $$$$$$
Surface 2 - RT , 16:9
Nokia - RT , 16:9

 

[cronos]

Anyone knows if there will be a bigger version of Asus VivoTab Note? i.e. anyone heard of a planned 10-12" Baytrail with full Windows and wacom digitizer coming out this year?

 

[SAWYER]

I dont keep up with hardware, what is the big deal about Baytrail?

 

[code65536]

I dont keep up with hardware, what is the big deal about Baytrail?

It doesn't suck.

My DV8P's 4-core Bay Trail CPU outperforms my netbook's 2-core Ivy Bridge ULV Celeron, despite the Bay Trail having a lower TDP.

 

[Imaginer]

Not a bay trail, but the Acer Icona W3 810 is about the same size if not smaller.

The good thing about it is, you can have an even smaller footprint than 10 inch tablets and having your desktop space on the go with your Modern spaces.

To those having problems in the desktop spaces, scaling at 150% puts working in the desktop space back at where computers used to be at a resolution of 1024x768 working spaces in scale to balance to use cases.

To those that have problems without a pen, there are always thin tipped capacitive styluses AND there is TouchMousePointer making the touch screen as a trackpad.

I will again re-iterate this with regards to Office on the go on these smaller tablets. If one is to complain about them, why not also fault netbooks on that similar case?

For office work on a small device, the discrepancy lies in document input and feedback in viewing your entered text/numbers. The on-screen keyboard (the split thumb one is easily the best option) is doable.

With caveats...

With the desktop Office and how in the desktop areas, the on-screen keyboard does not deploy automatically like in Modern apps, one has to click or poke the keyboard icon to bring the keyboard manually. This also can obscure a good portion of the widescreen aspect ratio of the already. This can be alieviated, using the "Screen split" icon next to the close icon of the virtual keyboard, which would tile the keyboard and all of the working space of the desktop. I have resorted to this for very short text input without having to place my device down or find a table or place to sit. Granted, for intense text and number entry, you will need a dock or external keyboard no matter what the device is.

I will also comment about pen and touch versus the cursor dragging methods of mice, trackpads, and nubs of the past. If a device can offer both options, that is a GOOD thing.

The pen, by default in many user's eyes, is the default go to solution. This is been long existent in the Tablet PC realm. With this option, you can input text and numbers by the OCR handwriting keyboard which works well enough - and works as well enough given deployed circumstances. This is not for long essays however, short text input and sentences is what I found this being viable. You can also use this to point at things.

The biggest difference in the pen and trackpad, is the pen eliminates the small but noticable over time, drag, sliding, and zeroing-to-the-target time of the trackpad. It also allows for a much finer manipulation of dense, small UI. Which is another trade-off in device size to function and computational power.

My take on 16:9?

The 16:9 ratio of some tablets, it makes sense if you use the thumb split keyboard, watching many formats of widescreen videos, and most importantly that many people look over when it comes to Windows tablets, the allowing of multi-tasking two applications to be displayed more easily side by side, rather than even more restrained if under a 4:3 ratio.

Coming from manipulating my phone in this manner, having my middle, ring and pinky fingers behind and in the back of the device, using my index and thumb to pinch and zoom and point, if I do this with both hands, I can easily manipulate two apps at once and since they are side by side, it is much in reach while being nominally displayed. A 16:10 ration would put my thumbs closer together in reach.

Also, I have this to say about 16:9.

Of course, if using the device in a portrait mode, the 16:9 16:10 aspect ratio makes much more sense. It gives plenty of vertical room to have the keyboard and have your feedback visual output at the same time. It brings the visual area more in line as with the 4:3 aspects.

Given my manipulation method, I would possibly have used an 8" device in portrait mode mostly with reading and text entry. With the weight of the 8" devices, most people can hold the weight on the middle, ring, and pinky fingers with one hand for a short period (two, definitely).

I will say this, from a convergence standpoint, the definite sweet spot for a desktop, direct pixel/screen to touch input, a 10 inch tablet is the definitive area for balance of size footprint area while keeping account for a physical keyboard attachment to keep in line with the device size, the keyboard attachment being the right size for comfortable physical typing, and is well as being sized for work and play with any existing applications and apps.

Otherwise, with smaller and smaller tablets, one will find needing an external bluetooth keyboard, which defeats the purpose of device consolidation and attachment. If one buys those jackets, they increase the size to hold, but the screen is still small and in the middle of the jacket.

8 inch tablets, are much like what I seen before with the Sony Viao Picturebook series (which I wanted at the time of release, but passed because I did not need the mobility at the time nor did it have the computational power desired)

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/199809/98-085/index.html

The thing is, these have the nubs and no touch screen. Give the Lenovo Yoga abilities (or the device design paradigms of the Surface) and this would be as viable of a device.

Keep in mind of a physical keyboard attachment sized to your hands AND being sized to be attached to the device and folded up nicely.

Would I buy another 8 inch tablet? Yes, given if I have need for a very small, full computer in needed areas.

 

[ControlD]

But other than a couple great apps I use, things go to crap quickly after that. I'd love to read my Kindle books on my 8 inch Windows tablet, but the Kindle app is absolute garbage on Windows, Nook app seemed even worse (which surprised me since Microsoft gave B&N money and are partners or something). There is no YouTube app and I haven't found a quality third party YouTube app yet (Tube Lite was okay, but appears to be out of date and a lot of the features don't work correctly anymore).

In what way? Granted, I have only spent a day with my new Venue 8 Pro but I find the Kindle app to be just fine. It supports dual column reading layouts, etc. just like the iPad version does. I also get direct access to the Kindle store which is something I missed when using the iOS version.

I guess I don't miss a native Youtube app because I use Plex for all of my media needs. That is another area where I am really liking a full W8 device. Rather than having to purchase a dedicated mobile app, I can simply use Chrome with the Plex app installed and get a very good experience.

Like I have said, I have only been using my device for a day so I'm not qualified to say it is awesome or crappy yet. What I do like, and part of the reason I gave my iPad to a family member, is that I don't need to make nearly as many compromises when it comes to program usage. If I want to have Beersmith close to me on brewing day I no longer need to use a crappy scaled down "mobile" version. I can install the full version, connect to my home server and grab the latest database and roll with it. Previously I had to use a scaled down version, export my recipes to a dropbox account, etc. I would rather go without a tablet than have to go back to relying on app store replacements for things I already own.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Regarding the Kindle app. On some Windows 8 tablets, like my Dell Venue 8, while reading a book the bottom menu bar doesn't hide properly, staying partially visible and slightly covering the page number. Also there is no reading progress while reading, there is no font selection, and the Kindle Store often won't even launch.

 

[sm625]

It is going to take more than baytrail to convince people to buy these things. Unless they get the price down well under a nexus 7, no one will buy it. Why would they? The tablet experience is just terribly bad on windows 8. In theory it can do more than android, but in actual use the OS is so clunky and poorly conceived that no one will actually do anything more than what they could do on an android tablet. So any extra features windows brings is pretty much moot.

One thing I will give windows credit for is parental controls that at least function well enough to prevent a 10 year old from staying up all night playing the damn thing. Android is a frickin disgrace when it comes to that.

 

[ControlD]

It is going to take more than baytrail to convince people to buy these things. Unless they get the price down well under a nexus 7, no one will buy it. Why would they? The tablet experience is just terribly bad on windows 8. In theory it can do more than android, but in actual use the OS is so clunky and poorly conceived that no one will actually do anything more than what they could do on an android tablet. So any extra features windows brings is pretty much moot.

One thing I will give windows credit for is parental controls that at least function well enough to prevent a 10 year old from staying up all night playing the damn thing. Android is a frickin disgrace when it comes to that.

Must be personal preference. I find Windows 8 to be perfectly fine to use as a tablet OS. Much better than as a desktop. I have been consistently underwhelmed by the tablet experience when using Android or iOS. I don't need a phone OS on a tablet, I want something more.

 

[s44]

A number of people here are excited by them, but I see the Miix 8 v2 at clearance price a month after release... which is probably a bad sign as far as sales.

 

[TripleThreatTLT]

It is going to take more than baytrail to convince people to buy these things. Unless they get the price down well under a nexus 7, no one will buy it. Why would they? The tablet experience is just terribly bad on windows 8. In theory it can do more than android, but in actual use the OS is so clunky and poorly conceived that no one will actually do anything more than what they could do on an android tablet. So any extra features windows brings is pretty much moot.

One thing I will give windows credit for is parental controls that at least function well enough to prevent a 10 year old from staying up all night playing the damn thing. Android is a frickin disgrace when it comes to that.

I find the OS experience to be dramatically better. My wife who is most definitely not techie just made me sell her galaxy note 10.1 and replace it with the dell venue 8 pro.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

I am surprised to see Windows tablets panned for the poor performance of their "tablet apps", as if there weren't any offers on the "regular" (desktop) Windows side. For instance, doesn't Sumatra PDF read a multitude of ebook formats? Why, then, would anyone need a targeted (and therefore, by definition, limited) Kindle app? Especially with Calibre available one click away?

Along similar lines, why bother with a Youtube or Facebook "app", instead accessing these sites through a regular browser? Or how come VLC isn't used as a near-universal video player?

 

[Tom]

"Toshiba has a device which not only sports HDMI, but also integrates a GPS chip, Lenovo gets rave reviews for its slim and light Miix 2, and the Wacom-equipped ASUS is already making many people reach for their wallets. "

Who talks like this ? Who uses the word "watershed" ?

 

[ControlD]

I find the OS experience to be dramatically better. My wife who is most definitely not techie just made me sell her galaxy note 10.1 and replace it with the dell venue 8 pro.

That's funny. My wife is also looking sideways at her 10.1 after seeing my VP8 as well. She really wanted a Surface and I am still thinking about selling her Note and MacBook Air and getting her a Surface Pro 2 to replace them both.

 

[Crotulus]

I've been very happy with my Dell Venue 8 Pro. Everything feels snappy enough. and it's kind of cool to plug in an xbox controller and play some indie games via Steam. I's also nice to have a real browser that I can stream Amazon Prime since Amazon does not want to release an Android app.

 

[ControlD]

Regarding the Kindle app. On some Windows 8 tablets, like my Dell Venue 8, while reading a book the bottom menu bar doesn't hide properly, staying partially visible and slightly covering the page number. Also there is no reading progress while reading, there is no font selection, and the Kindle Store often won't even launch.

Strange, I am also using a Venue Pro 8 and mine displays fine and the store works as well. In regards to your other issues, have you tried swiping down from the top? This gives you your current position and the same display options (text size etc.) that the Android version of Kindle provides.

 

[sequoia464]

A number of people here are excited by them, but I see the Miix 8 v2 at clearance price a month after release... which is probably a bad sign as far as sales.

Lenovo has what appears to be a very nice 8.3" tablet coming out soon -they might be wanting to sell off the mixx supply in advance of that.

Lenovo ThinkPad 8 ... http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/5/5277418/lenovo-thinkpad-8-specifications-release-date-price

Personally prefer my Windows tablet to the iPad and android tablets that we have.

 

[Torn Mind]

"Toshiba has a device which not only sports HDMI, but also integrates a GPS chip, Lenovo gets rave reviews for its slim and light Miix 2, and the Wacom-equipped ASUS is already making many people reach for their wallets. "

Who talks like this ? Who uses the word "watershed" ?

Geologists and people interested in the fate of a specfic body of water(i.e Chesapeake Bay) use watershed.

In addition, watershed in this context is used correctly, as it also has a definition of "a time when important change happens".

While the OP should have used semicolons, I don't see what exactly is wrong with her way of writing when it is essentially correct English sans a punctuation error.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Who talks like this ? Who uses the word "watershed" ?

People with a higher education? People who don't suffer from ADD? People born in Britain? People who DON'T live in Tennessee? Take your pick...