What could we do as consumers to keep Nvidia producing Faster cards every 6 months? They now have control as to when they wanna release the next gen card hence milk the market with the 8800gtx. All those peeps waiting on the ati card will now be buying the 880gtx that came out last year.
Now that ATI/AMD Lost the war....
- Thread starter vaccarjm
- Start date
I love the ati battle with nvidia....it meant faster cards every 6 months. Each release made my 30" lcd happier. I really hope AMD takes this seriously.
This is the worst part about R600.
A lot of people are pimping the HD2900XT because it performs well at a decent price.
What they dont realize is that Nvidia has 2 SKUs that are not even in the same ballpark as AMD's fastest offering.
As a result, Nvidia will continue to charge $850 for their fastest video card. People will complain about Nvidia overcharging and that Nvidia is the devil and anyone who likes Nvidia is a viral marketer, etc.. In reality, it's no one's fault except AMD. They bought the GPU company that bested Nvidia for the most part of three generations and this is the best they could come up.
Hopefully AMD will rebound and reenter the true high end arena with a 65nm part, but I dont expect that until the fall. Until then, we're going to continue to pay >$500 for true high end video cards.
If I were nvidia, I would immediately cut the price of 8800GTX to the sub-$500 level. That would really put the hurt on AMD. I dont see how AMD could go very lower on the price of HD2900XT without incurring huge losses.
A lot of people are pimping the HD2900XT because it performs well at a decent price.
What they dont realize is that Nvidia has 2 SKUs that are not even in the same ballpark as AMD's fastest offering.
As a result, Nvidia will continue to charge $850 for their fastest video card. People will complain about Nvidia overcharging and that Nvidia is the devil and anyone who likes Nvidia is a viral marketer, etc.. In reality, it's no one's fault except AMD. They bought the GPU company that bested Nvidia for the most part of three generations and this is the best they could come up.
Hopefully AMD will rebound and reenter the true high end arena with a 65nm part, but I dont expect that until the fall. Until then, we're going to continue to pay >$500 for true high end video cards.
If I were nvidia, I would immediately cut the price of 8800GTX to the sub-$500 level. That would really put the hurt on AMD. I dont see how AMD could go very lower on the price of HD2900XT without incurring huge losses.
Cookie Monster
Diamond Member
- May 7, 2005
- 5,161
- 32
- 86
They haven't lost the war.
They may have lost the battle, but they haven't lost the war just yet. Look at how nVIDIA survived the FX era. (although they lost an arm and a leg in doing so)
I thought the OP was on vacation..
They may have lost the battle, but they haven't lost the war just yet. Look at how nVIDIA survived the FX era. (although they lost an arm and a leg in doing so)
I thought the OP was on vacation..
ATI and Nvidia have been neck-and-neck ever since 3D graphics became a reality on the PC.
The engineers at AMD are brilliant, some of the smartest and brightest minds in the world. The R600 on paper is an amazing piece of machinery, it's going to take a while before they can fully extract the performance that it is capable of. I think Rev. 2 of the R600 will be everything the R600 was supposed to be and it will most definitely silence a lot of critics.
There is no question Nvidia is now a well oiled machine and their track record over the last few years has been impeccable (in terms of hard launching and keeping to their launch dates). AMD could learn a thing or two about execution from them, having two generations of cards plagued by delays is not acceptable.
Having said that, I think the future of GPUs as we know it today is quite nebulous. Things cannot continue the way they are going with cards increasing in transistor size, power requirements, heat, noise, etc. I think we are seeing the end of that era.
The engineers at AMD are brilliant, some of the smartest and brightest minds in the world. The R600 on paper is an amazing piece of machinery, it's going to take a while before they can fully extract the performance that it is capable of. I think Rev. 2 of the R600 will be everything the R600 was supposed to be and it will most definitely silence a lot of critics.
There is no question Nvidia is now a well oiled machine and their track record over the last few years has been impeccable (in terms of hard launching and keeping to their launch dates). AMD could learn a thing or two about execution from them, having two generations of cards plagued by delays is not acceptable.
Having said that, I think the future of GPUs as we know it today is quite nebulous. Things cannot continue the way they are going with cards increasing in transistor size, power requirements, heat, noise, etc. I think we are seeing the end of that era.
I agree and what is this war he was talking about?
I hope he isn't talking about a war involving video cards because that would just be SAD!
Considering the 2900XT performs very well (depends on what game and settings, some its neck to the neck with the GTS others its close to the GTX) and is priced well, it's not a failure. A 65nm refresh with higher clocks, lower power consumption, and 1GB of GDDR4 memory will probably be coming within 3 months. It wouldn't be anything but a repeat of the past. nVidia is probably also coming with an 80nm GF 8900 soon; they did it with the 7800 Ultra -> 7900 series, and they'll probably do it again. We'll see what things look like then.
How can you guys say they lost the war? 2900XT is a high end card and is on the level of a 8800GTS 640! It is priced the same, so people will buy it. But even if they don't, it isn't a massive problem. The bulk of the money comes from the mid range, and even HARDOCP admitted that the ATi mid range looks really good and will knock over the 8600s. So from that point of view, how has ATi lost the war people?
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
They didn't lose the war, but they're on the edge. Very sad; it will take a while untill we see 8900GTX.
nemesismk2, you're one of the FEW that are glad. Most are glad because they can buy 8 series with a clear conscience. HD2900XT runs on par with 8800GTS 640, just very hot, consuming 60W more and with a noisy cooler. Plus, it costs more. What is there to like, really? Maybe the red colour, but that's it.
q]Originally posted by: Pugnate
How can you guys say they lost the war? 2900XT is a high end card and is on the level of a 8800GTS 640! It is priced the same, so people will buy it. But even if they don't, it isn't a massive problem. The bulk of the money comes from the mid range, and even HARDOCP admitted that the ATi mid range looks really good and will knock over the 8600s. So from that point of view, how has ATi lost the war people?[/quote]
Costs the same ($60 more, but retail prices will vary); but consumes more, runs hotter and is noisy.
For now, ATi's mid range looks good ON PAPER, just as HD2900XT did. Jeez, looking at those 320 stream processors, I thought it will wipe the floor with 2 8800 Ultras in SLI. Wait until the final products are out.
It's sad. But everything pointed at this. Competition is out and selling, gaining market share and yet ATi was postponing the launch due to "strategic decisions" to launch the whole family at once. HD2900XT now, the rest in one month. I wonder why didn't they launch in June? All together? That was the original plan, wasn't it?
There's no strategic decision with this. It's either you sell what you have or you don't. If you sell, you make money. You don't sell, you lose money. Why would you strategically lose money?
nemesismk2, you're one of the FEW that are glad. Most are glad because they can buy 8 series with a clear conscience. HD2900XT runs on par with 8800GTS 640, just very hot, consuming 60W more and with a noisy cooler. Plus, it costs more. What is there to like, really? Maybe the red colour, but that's it.
q]Originally posted by: Pugnate
How can you guys say they lost the war? 2900XT is a high end card and is on the level of a 8800GTS 640! It is priced the same, so people will buy it. But even if they don't, it isn't a massive problem. The bulk of the money comes from the mid range, and even HARDOCP admitted that the ATi mid range looks really good and will knock over the 8600s. So from that point of view, how has ATi lost the war people?[/quote]
Costs the same ($60 more, but retail prices will vary); but consumes more, runs hotter and is noisy.
For now, ATi's mid range looks good ON PAPER, just as HD2900XT did. Jeez, looking at those 320 stream processors, I thought it will wipe the floor with 2 8800 Ultras in SLI. Wait until the final products are out.
It's sad. But everything pointed at this. Competition is out and selling, gaining market share and yet ATi was postponing the launch due to "strategic decisions" to launch the whole family at once. HD2900XT now, the rest in one month. I wonder why didn't they launch in June? All together? That was the original plan, wasn't it?
There's no strategic decision with this. It's either you sell what you have or you don't. If you sell, you make money. You don't sell, you lose money. Why would you strategically lose money?
ATi started with all the ass kicking until 3Dfx and Nvidia were born.
My favorite ATi card though was the 8500. It provided the same performance as the competition at a $100 less. I loved them for it.
The time they truely owned was the 9700. I can remember the PR guy actually excited at the unveiling.
He said something along the lines of,"It is my job to tell you we are offering a revolutionary product. But this time I am not lying."
i honestly cant understand how people can claim 'such and such has lost the war'. people are comparing a video card thats just come out (with seemingly raw drivers) to a video card thats been out for many months, and therefore has had many months of driver optimizations.
runs hotters, yes, uses more power ? Doubtfull ... I just read toms hardware review and the r600 actually drew less system power then the 8800gtx, during game tests, http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/14/...lly_dx10_hardware_from_ati/page26.html
Can it be improved, for sure, does it suck ? No. Has ati lost the war, give me a break. Could ati have done things different and better, yes. Would I have to buy a new gpu now, I would be very much doubting between a 8800 gts 320 mb or a 2900 xt.
Can it be improved, for sure, does it suck ? No. Has ati lost the war, give me a break. Could ati have done things different and better, yes. Would I have to buy a new gpu now, I would be very much doubting between a 8800 gts 320 mb or a 2900 xt.
lopri
Elite Member
- Jul 27, 2002
- 13,310
- 687
- 126
Well, OP does have a point. From my memory to date, 8800 GTX is the card that kept its value for the longest time in GPU history. I bought one last year for $525 (AR) @the Egg, and the cheapest one today @the Egg is $519 (AR). And it looks to stay that way for some time to come. And NV has no reason to update their product line, other than for reducing THEIR cost.
You can buy their newest card in droves when it first comes out, then everyone needs to stop buying 6 months afterwards, then buy again when a new product comes out, but only if it meets your criteria.
ATI wasn't really in the 3d space for very long until 3dfx and nvidia showed up, and I don't think they were particularly kickass.
ATI has always had overpromised and underperforming parts (overly ambitious engineering) until the 9700 pro, which was an outside development anyway.
Their voodoo killers were all duds. Their geforce killer couldn't compete. Their geforce 2 killer fell by the wayside very quickly. Their geforce 3 killer tried to take on the geforce 4. They always released 6 months too late, until the 9700 pro. Didn't take long for ati's management to get ArtX's engineers on the traditional ATI path.
Yeah, but those were 2D graphics cards such as the Mach 32/64 that ATi used to kick ass with back then.
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