Now Obama wants to funnel your next car purchase into GM

[drebo]

394 miles is limited range? I suggest you do some homework on the Volt and on lifecycle of new technologies in general. I'm sure you thought the Toyota Prius was going to be a failure also.

As a successfully marketed and well-selling car, it's not.

As a step in the right direction toward less dependency on oil and better gas mileage, it most certainly is a failure. The Prius is a hollow status symbol.

Driving a normal gasoline car with a much bigger engine cautiously can yield better mileage than a Prius. Hell, there are some diesel cars that get much, much better mileage.

As an exercise in marketing, the Prius was very successful. But as the savior of the world and cars and the champion against global warming? Fuck no.

EVs, hybrids, and ethanol are not the answer. They're not even good short-term solutions.

 

[PingSpike]

Fuck corn ethanol. Take away the subsides and the mandate that it be the only fuel that exists (despite the fact it destroys many existing small engines) and see how well that garbage sells.

 

[PeshakJang]

As a successfully marketed and well-selling car, it's not.

As a step in the right direction toward less dependency on oil and better gas mileage, it most certainly is a failure. The Prius is a hollow status symbol.

Driving a normal gasoline car with a much bigger engine cautiously can yield better mileage than a Prius. Hell, there are some diesel cars that get much, much better mileage.

Please provide some data on this.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2011.pdf

Prius combined is 50MPG. Next most efficient is Lexus CT200h at 42.

Real-world drivers of the Prius regularly report getting 50-70 MPG with conservative driving.

So please explain your comments.

As an exercise in marketing, the Prius was very successful. But as the savior of the world and cars and the champion against global warming? Fuck no.

EVs, hybrids, and ethanol are not the answer. They're not even good short-term solutions.

A vehicle that gets 2x the average mileage of most other vehicles is not a good short term solution?

I'm eager to hear what direction you think we should be heading.

 

[PeshakJang]

On Corn Ethanol
Corn isn't the best but there is no food argument and its energy positive,

No food argument? The UN called it a crime against humanity that we use it for fuel. Corn prices are up dramatically in the last decade. Corn ethanol removes supply, which is worldwide. Less supply, with continued increase in demand, equals prices rise. Pretty simple buddy.

 

[bfdd]

The DIY crowd is going to be far and few on these vehicles, even most non dealer shops are afraid or don't know how to work on them outside of the most basic maintenance.

actually there is quite the community for it. not as big as most, but not badly sized. guides and what not are out there.

Zebo, my dad also bought new a natural gas Honda Civic I think 2 years ago to get in on the huge tax rebates they were offering up. I think he ended up getting like 40-45% of the price back in tax rebates. That's a pretty sweet little car too. My parents are by no means green nuts, they just saw an opportunity to save money and took it.

 

[desy]

Lets see 50% of the corn crop is used for animal feed redirect that to human consumption because cows eat a lot more than people do problem solved. It really amounts to about a 3% increase in the price of food.
Price of diesel and other farm inputs like fertalizer and herbicides and pesticides matter a lot more

" The jounal, Energy recently concluded that there is no connection between biofuel production and food prices. Also, one-third of the corn used for ethanol production will be used as livestock feed as American ethanol production will supply the world with 9 million metric tons of DDG’s this year."

http://www.eeg.tuwien.ac.at/eeg.tuwien.ac.at_pages/publications/pdf/AJA_PAP_2010_3.pdf

 

[Texashiker]

Lets see 50% of the corn crop is used for animal feed redirect that to human consumption because cows eat a lot more than people do problem solved. It really amounts to about a 3% increase in the price of food.

What are the farm animals supposed to eat?

Most farmers do not have access to thousands of acres to let their cattle free range. Supplemental feed is the only option most of them have.

 

[desy]

I don't find a shortage of range land, site your links please, feedlots exists because of economics not supply, and if the argument is greenhouse gases the livestock industry by far contributes more

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-greenhouse-hamburger

It turns out that producing half a pound of hamburger for someone's lunch a patty of meat the size of two decks of cards releases as much greenhouse gas into the atmosphere as driving a 3,000-pound car nearly 10 miles

 

[Texashiker]

I don't find a shortage of range land, site your links please, feedlots exists because of economics not supply, and if the argument is greenhouse gases the livestock industry by far contributes more

Links on range land issue? Its first hand experience. My parents own about 25 acres of land, about 15 of which is suited for livestock. We have talked about getting a couple of cows and putting on the farm, but we have not been getting enough rain for grass to grow, much less corn and peas to grow. You transport cows to range land, the cost of fuel off sets the cost of feed. Have you seen the price of fuel - gas and diesel - lately?

Natural range fed beef has less of an impact on the environment, then beef that is fed commercial feed.

 

[desy]

Uhuh so do my in-laws, aunts/uncles, cousins and not 25 acres, more like 2500
sounds like you don't have the economics for livestock so you shouldn't get into them. For those that do, depressed cattle markets has removed a lot of animals from the herd, no shortage of range land around here. . . .

 

[bfdd]

Uhuh so do my in-laws, aunts/uncles, cousins and not 25 acres, more like 2500
sounds like you don't have the economics for livestock so you shouldn't get into them. For those that do, depressed cattle markets has removed a lot of animals from the herd, no shortage of range land around here. . . .

if it was economical it would be done by everyone, but it isn't. also, why would we want to eat more corn? our bodies can't break corn down all the way. i already try to eat less corn because it gives me problems with my IBS.

 

[werepossum]

if it was economical it would be done by everyone, but it isn't. also, why would we want to eat more corn? our bodies can't break corn down all the way. i already try to eat less corn because it gives me problems with my IBS.

For a LOT of very poor Mexicans, corn is a principle part of their diet. Considering that American farming is much more efficient than is Mexican farming and that adequate food already takes a substantial majority of their income, removing additional corn from the market (and thereby raising the cost of the remainder) is pretty catastrophic to these people.

If that doesn't convince you, here's a couple more points. Corn is a fairly water intensive crop grown on some fairly dry land, which will more rapidly deplete the midwest's underground aquifers and rivers. And depending on whose numbers you use, producing a gallon of corn-based ethanol takes the equivalent of either 60% of or around a gallon of petroleum products. (Most of this may be coal, natural gas, nuclear, etc. where available.) Considering that ethanol has a third less energy, we are arguably using more energy to use corn ethanol, with a bonus of accelerated engine wear.

There are of course two big caveats to that. First, using an ethanol blend reduces carbon monoxide and some other toxic pollutants, making cities much healthier places. Second and related, ethanol and ETBE are much less persistent and less toxic than MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), the other major oxygenator (and former toxic waste by-product.) So using 5% to 10% ethanol does make some sense.

 

[desy]

Lol, the point is if you weren't growing corn for animals then you could grow caviar or whatever suits your palette instead.
We feed cattle grain around here, however feed quality grain doesn't go for human consumption anyway. You will always have crop of different quality a lot of which isn't suited for human consumption.

 

[Capt Caveman]

GM: Chevy Volt Owners Averaging 1,000 Miles Between Gas Stops

One owner has averaged 547 mpg by relying more on the battery pack for propulsion

One of the vehicles that has made one of the biggest splashes in the hybrid and EV market is the Chevrolet Volt. The Volt is an extended range electric vehicle which uses the gasoline motor to charge the battery inside the car for longer range once it can’t go on electric power alone.

One of the things that Chevrolet has been a bit quiet on is exactly how far the vehicle can drive on a tank full of fuel when the batteries go dead on their own. To show just how far the Volt can drive on a tank of fuel, GM has called on some owners of the Chevy Volt to tell just how long they have been driving on a tank and it's a long way.

“Volt owners drove an average of 800 miles between fill-ups since the Volt launched in December, and in March they averaged 1,000 miles,” said Cristi Landy, Volt marketing director. “When the majority of miles driven are electrically, gas usage decreases significantly.”

When you consider that the Volt holds roughly nine gallons of fuel, the fact that GM claims the average Volt driver gets 800 miles between fill ups is even more impressive. That would work out to fuel economy in the area of 122 miles per gallon. Volt owners also note they only hit the gas station about once per month.

While Volt owners may not be sucking down as much dyno-juice as other vehicles, they are in turn tapping into the electrical grid to recharge the battery pack on a regular basis. For consumers with a daily commute of less than 40 miles (the Volt's maximum battery-only range), a nightly recharge is all it takes to keep the gasoline engine from firing up.

“I am surprised how infrequently I go to the gas station. It’s become a game to achieve as many miles as I can in EV mode,” said Steve Wojtanek, a Volt buyer in Boca Raton, Florida. “I have made it my goal to drive as efficiently as possible and I am seeing the results, with more than 3,417 miles under my belt – of which 2,225 are EV miles.” A Volt owner since December, Wojtanek is averaging 122 miles per gallon and visiting the gas station about once a month.

Another Volt owner, Gary Davis said, "On April 11, I had to buy gas for the first time since filling up on January 9. In my Volt I’ve driven 4,600 miles on 8.4 gallons of gas. That’s an impressive 547 mpg that I am achieving with my Volt."

GM cites the total driving range of the Volt as 379 miles on a tank. The typical all electric driving range on the vehicle is 25-50 miles. Davis would have to be driving less than the 25-50 miles most days to rack up the kind of fuel economy he is reporting. Some Volt dealers were asking as much as $25,000 over MSRP for the Volt when it launched.