Now it is the Obama administration that is silencing people who disagree with them on GW

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
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0
Change we can believe in.

Sounds like the EPA made up its mind and anyone who disagrees will be silenced.

Meanwhile the Democrat congress tries to ram through a bill to fight climate change that may not even exist.
And yes this comes from Fox News, deal with it.
A top Republican senator has ordered an investigation into the Environmental Protection Agency's alleged suppression of a report that questioned the science behind global warming.

The 98-page report, co-authored by EPA analyst Alan Carlin, pushed back on the prospect of regulating gases like carbon dioxide as a way to reduce global warming. Carlin's report argued that the information the EPA was using was out of date, and that even as atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have increased, global temperatures have declined.

"He came out with the truth. They don't want the truth at the EPA," Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla, a global warming skeptic, told FOX News, saying he's ordered an investigation. "We're going to expose it."

The controversy comes after the House of Representatives passed a landmark bill to regulate greenhouse gas emissions, one that Inhofe said will be "dead on arrival" in the Senate despite President Obama's energy adviser voicing confidence in the measure.

According to internal e-mails that have been made public by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, Carlin's boss told him in March that his material would not be incorporated into a broader EPA finding and ordered Carlin to stop working on the climate change issue. The draft EPA finding released in April lists six greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide, that the EPA says threaten public health and welfare.

An EPA official told FOXNews.com on Monday that Carlin, who is an economist -- not a scientist -- included "no original research" in his report. The official said that Carlin "has not been muzzled in the agency at all," but stressed that his report was entirely "unsolicited."

"It was something that he did on his own," the official said. "Though he was not qualified, his manager indulged him and allowed him on agency time to draft up ... a set of comments."

Despite the EPA official's remarks, Carlin told FOXNews.com on Monday that his boss, National Center for Environmental Economics Director Al McGartland, appeared to be pressured into reassigning him.

Carlin said he doesn't know whether the White House intervened to suppress his report but claimed it's clear "they would not be happy about it if they knew about it," and that McGartland seemed to be feeling pressure from somewhere up the chain of command.

Carlin said McGartland told him he had to pull him off the climate change issue.

"It was reassigning you or losing my job, and I didn't want to lose my job," Carlin said, paraphrasing what he claimed were McGartland's comments to him. "My inference (was) that he was receiving some sort of higher-level pressure."

Carlin said he personally does not think there is a need to regulate carbon dioxide, since "global temperatures are going down." He said his report expressed a "good bit of doubt" on the connection between the two.

Specifically, the report noted that global temperatures were on a downward trend over the past 11 years, that scientists do not necessarily believe that storms will become more frequent or more intense due to global warming, and that the theory that temperatures will cause Greenland ice to rapidly melt has been "greatly diminished."

Carlin, in a March 16 e-mail, argued that his comments are "valid, significant" and would be critical to the EPA finding.

McGartland, though, wrote back the next day saying he had decided not to forward his comments.

"The administrator and the administration has decided to move forward on endangerment, and your comments do not help the legal or policy case for this decision," he wrote, according to the e-mails released by CEI. "I can only see one impact of your comments given where we are in the process, and that would be a very negative impact on our office."

He later wrote an e-mail urging Carlin to "move on to other issues and subjects."

"I don't want you to spend any additional EPA time on climate change. No papers, no research, etc., at least until we see what EPA is going to do with climate," McGartland wrote.

The EPA said in a written statement that Carlin's opinions were in fact considered, and that he was not even part of the working group dealing with climate change in the first place.

"Claims that this individual's opinions were not considered or studied are entirely false. This administration and this EPA administrator are fully committed to openness, transparency and science-based decision making," the statement said. "The individual in question is not a scientist and was not part of the working group dealing with this issue. Nevertheless the document he submitted was reviewed by his peers and agency scientists, and information from that report was submitted by his manager to those responsible for developing the proposed endangerment finding. In fact, some ideas from that document are included and addressed in the endangerment finding."

The e-mail exchanges and suggestions of political interference sparked a backlash from Republicans in Congress.

Reps. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., and Darrell Issa, R-Calif., also wrote a letter last week to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson urging the agency to reopen its comment period on the finding. The EPA has since denied the request.

Citing the internal e-mails, the Republican congressmen wrote that the EPA was exhibiting an "agency culture set in a predetermined course."

"It documents at least one instance in which the public was denied access to significant scientific literature and raises substantial questions about what additional evidence may have been suppressed," they wrote.

In a written statement, Issa said the administration is "actively seeking to withhold new data in order to justify a political conclusion."

"I'm sure it was very inconvenient for the EPA to consider a study that contradicted the findings it wanted to reach," Sensenbrenner said in a statement, adding that the "repression" of Carlin's report casts doubt on the entire finding.

Carlin said he's concerned that he's seeing "science being decided at the presidential level."

"Now Mr. Obama is in effect directly or indirectly saying that CO2 causes global temperatures to rise and that we have to do something about it. ... That's normally a scientific judgment and he's in effect judging what the science says," he said. "We need to look at it harder."

The controversy is similar to one under the Bush administration -- only the administration was taking the opposite stance. In that case, scientist James Hansen claimed the administration was trying to keep him from speaking out and calling for reductions in greenhouse gases.


Repost

Anandtech Senior Moderator

Red Dawn
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Change we can believe in.

Sounds like the EPA made up its mind and anyone who disagrees will be silenced.

Meanwhile the Democrat congress tries to ram through a bill to fight climate change that may not even exist.
And yes this comes from Fox News, deal with it.

Oh jesus Pro-Jo, this is bad... even for you. I mean... wow.

An EPA official told FOXNews.com on Monday that Carlin, who is an economist -- not a scientist -- included "no original research" in his report.

"It was something that he did on his own," the official said. "Though he was not qualified, his manager indulged him and allowed him on agency time to draft up ... a set of comments.


Wow, I can't believe that an organization wouldn't want to use the non-research that an ECONOMIST cooked up with his spare time in their SCIENTIFIC opinion on climate change. I bet they didn't ask the janitor either, probably because Obama was afraid of the TRUTH the guy stocking the toilet paper was about to unleash. Shouldn't we have been more worried if Obama's EPA was using the opinions of utterly unqualified individuals to formulate their policy decisions? Isn't that what we all got so mad at Bush about?


Carlin said he doesn't know whether the White House intervened to suppress his report

I like your selective Fox News style 'question' threads. The insanely unqualified amateur wannabe scientist doesn't even have any evidence that the White House acted in any way, but it must be the Obama administration!


The EPA said in a written statement that Carlin's opinions were in fact considered, and that he was not even part of the working group dealing with climate change in the first place.

"Claims that this individual's opinions were not considered or studied are entirely false. This administration and this EPA administrator are fully committed to openness, transparency and science-based decision making," the statement said. "The individual in question is not a scientist and was not part of the working group dealing with this issue. Nevertheless the document he submitted was reviewed by his peers and agency scientists, and information from that report was submitted by his manager to those responsible for developing the proposed endangerment finding. In fact, some ideas from that document are included and addressed in the endangerment finding."

They actually gave this fool's ideas consideration. That is SO MUCH MORE than he actually deserved.


"Now Mr. Obama is in effect directly or indirectly saying that CO2 causes global temperatures to rise and that we have to do something about it. ... That's normally a scientific judgment and he's in effect judging what the science says," (Carlin) said. "We need to look at it harder."

Hahahaha, so now the non-scientist who just tried to publish something judging what the science says, is complaining that the President, also a non-scientist, is judging what the science says. This moron can't even stay internally consistent.

The controversy is similar to one under the Bush administration -- only the administration was taking the opposite stance. In that case, scientist James Hansen claimed the administration was trying to keep him from speaking out and calling for reductions in greenhouse gases.

No, it's not. One was an actual qualified individual making a scientific judgment that was suppressed, and the other is an unqualified economist working outside of his job and attempting to shoehorn his opinion into actual, qualified research. The attempt to equate the two is insanely dishonest. If the EPA were basing policy papers off the ideas of guys like this, they would be remiss in their duties to provide scientific evidence. It would be incredibly irresponsible of them.

Oh, and color me shocked that Inhofe is jumping in on this.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,770
54,808
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: senseamp
Climate change may not even exist? LOL
Global temps have been going DOWN for several years now.

And if you read any of the research on global warming you will see that it in no way impacts their findings.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: senseamp
Climate change may not even exist? LOL
Global temps have been going DOWN for several years now.

And if you read any of the research on global warming you will see that it in no way impacts their findings.

Yeah, they are going down, all right:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...Temperature_Record.png

Look, we really turned the corner right there, happy days are here again.
 

sciwizam

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: eskimospy

An EPA official told FOXNews.com on Monday that Carlin, who is an economist -- not a scientist -- included "no original research" in his report.

"It was something that he did on his own," the official said. "Though he was not qualified, his manager indulged him and allowed him on agency time to draft up ... a set of comments.


Wow, I can't believe that an organization wouldn't want to use the non-research that an ECONOMIST cooked up with his spare time in their SCIENTIFIC opinion on climate change. I bet they didn't ask the janitor either, probably because Obama was afraid of the TRUTH the guy stocking the toilet paper was about to unleash. Shouldn't we have been more worried if Obama's EPA was using the opinions of utterly unqualified individuals to formulate their policy decisions? Isn't that what we all got so mad at Bush about?

Link

Yes, because a BS in Physics from Caltech and a PhD in Economics from MIT amount to nothing. I mean it's not like he has been working at the EPA for 38 years and has been writing papers about environmental and public policy since 1967.

Just because he's an economist doesn't mean he can't do sound research. I didn't see you complaining about appointing the former AT&T chief to be GM's Chairman.

:roll:
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Originally posted by: sciwizam
Originally posted by: eskimospy

An EPA official told FOXNews.com on Monday that Carlin, who is an economist -- not a scientist -- included "no original research" in his report.

"It was something that he did on his own," the official said. "Though he was not qualified, his manager indulged him and allowed him on agency time to draft up ... a set of comments.


Wow, I can't believe that an organization wouldn't want to use the non-research that an ECONOMIST cooked up with his spare time in their SCIENTIFIC opinion on climate change. I bet they didn't ask the janitor either, probably because Obama was afraid of the TRUTH the guy stocking the toilet paper was about to unleash. Shouldn't we have been more worried if Obama's EPA was using the opinions of utterly unqualified individuals to formulate their policy decisions? Isn't that what we all got so mad at Bush about?

Link

Yes, because a BS in Physics from Caltech and a PhD in Economics from MIT amount to nothing. I mean it's not like he has been working at the EPA for 38 years and has been writing papers about environmental and public policy since 1967.

Just because he's an economist doesn't mean he can't do sound research. I didn't see you complaining about appointing the former AT&T chief to be GM's Chairman.

:roll:

Even if you assume he's qualified to speak on the subject, there are hundreds of scientists at least as well qualified who have a different opinion.
He is not all that and a bag of chips just because he got an Econ PhD from MIT.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
We already have a thread about this: Link

By the way PJ, I'm curious if you feel any moral obligation to return to correct, and perhaps even apologize for your debunked threads (like your recent NYT hit piece), or whether that level of integrity is too much to ask from you? In an ideal world, we could improve the value of P&N tremendously by holding people accountable for the quality and accuracy of their threads. Sadly, that's too subjective to work here in the real world, so we're left with an honor (or more commonly, dishonor) system. And speaking of integrity, if you're going to copy somebody else's work, you should provide a citation and link. That you continue to fail to do so says a lot about you, and it's not flattering.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,770
54,808
136
Originally posted by: sciwizam
Originally posted by: eskimospy

An EPA official told FOXNews.com on Monday that Carlin, who is an economist -- not a scientist -- included "no original research" in his report.

"It was something that he did on his own," the official said. "Though he was not qualified, his manager indulged him and allowed him on agency time to draft up ... a set of comments.


Wow, I can't believe that an organization wouldn't want to use the non-research that an ECONOMIST cooked up with his spare time in their SCIENTIFIC opinion on climate change. I bet they didn't ask the janitor either, probably because Obama was afraid of the TRUTH the guy stocking the toilet paper was about to unleash. Shouldn't we have been more worried if Obama's EPA was using the opinions of utterly unqualified individuals to formulate their policy decisions? Isn't that what we all got so mad at Bush about?

Link

Yes, because a BS in Physics from Caltech and a PhD in Economics from MIT amount to nothing. I mean it's not like he has been working at the EPA for 38 years and has been writing papers about environmental and public policy since 1967.

Just because he's an economist doesn't mean he can't do sound research. I didn't see you complaining about appointing the former AT&T chief to be GM's Chairman.

:roll:

No, I do not think someone with a BS in physics and an economics degree is qualified to conduct or effectively evaluate climate research. Why someone having a degree in some unrelated science would possibly matter is beyond me. I'm sure if he was having a discussion about theoretical physics and someone came in and said 'no, you're doing it all wrong... trust me I'm a climatologist' that would be just fine, right?

I'm glad that he's been writing papers about environmental policy. My question is 'who gives a shit'? Has he been conducting climate research? Is he a climatologist? I'm sure he understands the basics of climate research, but he is utterly unqualified to enter into a scientific debate with real scientists in the field who actually ARE conducting the research.

I don't really know anything about the whole AT&T/GM thing, so I wouldn't even know what to say. I was unaware that in order to call out Pro-Jo's article for being stupid that I needed to ferret out all cases of unqualified individuals doing things on the planet however.
 

sciwizam

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: sciwizam
Originally posted by: eskimospy

An EPA official told FOXNews.com on Monday that Carlin, who is an economist -- not a scientist -- included "no original research" in his report.

"It was something that he did on his own," the official said. "Though he was not qualified, his manager indulged him and allowed him on agency time to draft up ... a set of comments.


Wow, I can't believe that an organization wouldn't want to use the non-research that an ECONOMIST cooked up with his spare time in their SCIENTIFIC opinion on climate change. I bet they didn't ask the janitor either, probably because Obama was afraid of the TRUTH the guy stocking the toilet paper was about to unleash. Shouldn't we have been more worried if Obama's EPA was using the opinions of utterly unqualified individuals to formulate their policy decisions? Isn't that what we all got so mad at Bush about?

Link

Yes, because a BS in Physics from Caltech and a PhD in Economics from MIT amount to nothing. I mean it's not like he has been working at the EPA for 38 years and has been writing papers about environmental and public policy since 1967.

Just because he's an economist doesn't mean he can't do sound research. I didn't see you complaining about appointing the former AT&T chief to be GM's Chairman.

:roll:

Even if you assume he's qualified to speak on the subject, there are hundreds of scientists at least as well qualified who have a different opinion.
He is not all that and a bag of chips just because he got an Econ PhD from MIT.

And they maybe correct, what I was addressing was Eskimospy's assertion that just because he's an economist he is not qualified to talk about all things scientific.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,615
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I'm sure that if we had anything to fear from global warming it would be in the Bible.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
We already have a thread about this: Link

By the way PJ, I'm curious if you feel any moral obligation to return to correct, and perhaps even apologize for your debunked threads (like your recent NYT hit piece), or whether that level of integrity is too much to ask from you? In an ideal world, we could improve the value of P&N tremendously by holding people accountable for the quality and accuracy of their threads. Sadly, that's too subjective to work here in the real world, so we're left with an honor (or more commonly, dishonor) system. And speaking of integrity, if you're going to copy somebody else's work, you should provide a citation and link. That you continue to fail to do so says a lot about you, and it's not flattering
Oh please...

I am sure I'll find you make the same comment in Techs or phokus's threads too right???

Or does this 'obligation' only apply to people who you disagree with?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
We already have a thread about this: Link

By the way PJ, I'm curious if you feel any moral obligation to return to correct, and perhaps even apologize for your debunked threads (like your recent NYT hit piece), or whether that level of integrity is too much to ask from you? In an ideal world, we could improve the value of P&N tremendously by holding people accountable for the quality and accuracy of their threads. Sadly, that's too subjective to work here in the real world, so we're left with an honor (or more commonly, dishonor) system. And speaking of integrity, if you're going to copy somebody else's work, you should provide a citation and link. That you continue to fail to do so says a lot about you, and it's not flattering
Oh please...

I am sure I'll find you make the same comment in Techs or phokus's threads too right???

Or does this 'obligation' only apply to people who you disagree with?
There are plenty of you who piss and moan about Techs and Phokus, throwing out anything you can imagine to attack them and divert their threads. Why shouldn't you be held to a similar standard, especially when so many of your threads are the same empty partisan tripe, copied from disreputable sources even you are ashamed to link, and quickly exposed as devoid of substance and merit? At least Techs and Phokus have the integrity return to their threads to defend them, to demonstrate they truly believe in their positions, even if you don't agree with their reasoning. You, on the other hand obviously recognize you've posted tripe yet lack the integrity to acknowledge your errors. The only thing you appear to believe in is your duty to parrot today's party line, no matter what. In my mind, those flaws make you and your posts irrelevant. You could just as well be a simple script ... or a paid shill. The results would be the same, the discussion value nonexistent.

By the way, your duhversion notwithstanding, your thread is still a repost and it still shows a lack of character to copy others work without appropriately citing and linking the source. Oh, and you still owe the NYT an apology for your baseless, ill-informed accusations. It is the honorable thing to do.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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He's not qualified.

Review determined that there was no new research in his paper.

He was not part of the team that produced the official report. He had no reason whatsoever to expect the inclusion of his opinion. To say it was suppressed is ludicrous.

A non-story if I ever heard one.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
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all that matters to pj is that someone will see his title and not read into the actual thread. This is how he wins. someone will take the title at face value (retards yes but still people).
 

Red Irish

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Mar 6, 2009
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John, you are hereby stripped of your professorship for posting complete and utter codswallop.


 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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This so called "scientist" in his so called "scientific" report that Republicans are crying over, quotes and includes chart from the National Review magazine and also icecap.us ,friendsofscience.org and sepp.org, all human caused global warming denier think tanks. So basically this guy is trying to preach his political agenda from a taxpayer funded job, and then when he's told "no, thanks" he cries for attention.
Also, in another article on his site, he's advocating we dump reflective particles into the atmosphere to reflect sun to stop the greenhouse effect. Mkkay, yeah.
 

SunSamurai

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Jan 16, 2005
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I wonder how some people explain away the fact that around 7500 to 4000 years ago was the hottest point in human history. Industry right?

The entire human races contribution to C02 levels is around 12ppmv. A rough average looking at findings of temperatures to C02 levels for the last 400k years will tell you We, as a race, contribute around 0.12 C.

None of the huge amount of spending or horseshit policies or burdens on the economy you toss at that is going to even bring that number in half. Here is what you do; toss the fucking money at education, and by nature, we as a society will find more efficient ways to create the things we enjoy.

Right now the oceans and plant-life is what is causing the natural shift upward, as it has done for hundreds of thousands of years. We are either already at the peak, or have a fraction of a degree to go before the age old trend continues and we start to fall again, then rise, in a mini ice-age. Just like around the 1600 to1700s cooling came after the medieval warming period.

Look at the bigger picture. Things happen in cycles. We must surely be great if we think we are going more than a tiny fraction of what it takes to do anything to the Earths natural weather cycles. Earth cycles in around 10c up and down from around -8c to +2c (relative to present). Meaning in the grand scheme of things we contribute maybe 0.012%.

To put that into prospective, say a gallon of water was our climate change. The human race would contribute about one single gravity driven drop of water.

All any of this is, is platforms for political BS.
 

Red Irish

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Mar 6, 2009
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Originally posted by: SunSamurai
I wonder how some people explain away the fact that around 7500 to 4000 years ago was the hottest point in human history. Industry right?

All any of this is, is platforms for political BS.

When you touch an external hard drive, is it hot? How about a tv? Where does the heat go? How about the person next to you in bed (hope I'm not assuming too much)? What is the current global population? Is it growing? Do I have to list each and every electrical appliance that produces heat, or can we now assume that we are making things hotter?

"Hey, it was hotter before" does not constitute an argument for remaining passive in the face of a potential problem with catastrophic consequences. I prefer to hedge my bets.

If "all of this is platforms for political BS", by definition, that includes your own post.