Now it is being reported that the Gun program for Pilots is being expanded!

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misle

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Nov 30, 2000
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Link to story

The Obama administration has no plans to end a program that trains commercial airline pilots to carry guns and thwart terrorist attacks, and in fact is seeking to expand resources for oversight and training, government officials and pilots organizations say.

"We're looking for new resources and more money to bring in for next year. The benefits of the program are obvious. The pilots are an intrinsic part of our whole aviation-security strategy and one of our layers of security," said Robert Bray, director of the Federal Air Marshal Service, which oversees the program.

The Federal Flight Deck Officers (FFDO) program was created after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and has since trained 12,000 pilots on how to carry weapons and defend their aircraft against an attack. Among the planned expansions, Mr. Bray said, is the construction of a new center in Dallas, where armed pilots can receive recurring training.

Click the link to read the entire story.

Well, I hope this is accurate. I know the other thread got a lot of debate going on regarding the need and safety of pilots carrying firearms. But now it looks like the program will still be going strong (hopefully).
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: cubeless
wow... my emails to the pols worked???

They were never going to end it. They were just taking some money in the existing program and diverting it to oversight of said program.
 

Atheus

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Jun 7, 2005
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Brilliant, all a terrorist needs to do is impersonate an airline pilot, and the tools for his hijack are kindly provided for him by the airline.
 

nobodyknows

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Sep 28, 2008
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Brilliant, all a terrorist needs to do is impersonate an airline pilot, and the tools for his hijack are kindly provided for him by the airline.

God your a troll.
 

mect

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Jan 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Brilliant, all a terrorist needs to do is impersonate an airline pilot, and the tools for his hijack are kindly provided for him by the airline.

Yeah, since he'd really need the gun if he was already in control of the plane.
 

Atheus

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Jun 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: mect
Originally posted by: Atheus
Brilliant, all a terrorist needs to do is impersonate an airline pilot, and the tools for his hijack are kindly provided for him by the airline.

Yeah, since he'd really need the gun if he was already in control of the plane.

Fair point. The copilot and cabin crew would notice a dud pilot though, so he'd have to take them hostage, for which he could use the gun. Or passengers could storm the cockpit and take the weapon off the pilot for themselves. Or a hijacker could take a hostage and hold them as a human shield and force the pilot to give the weapon up. Or a dozen other things. I simply don't think this would stop a hijack - it just means hijacks have to be done differently. Wouldn't putting a fat steel door on the cockpit and instructing them never to open it under any circumstances be better than actually encouraging them to come out and fight? They're hardly soldiers anyway. What makes you think they would even shoot someone if they had to? Or if they fired what makes you think they wouldn't miss and make a hole in the fuselage? Guns are not the solution to all problems.
 

Atheus

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Jun 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Originally posted by: Atheus
Brilliant, all a terrorist needs to do is impersonate an airline pilot, and the tools for his hijack are kindly provided for him by the airline.

God your a troll.

Ah yes, but tomorrow I won't be trolling, and you'll still be stupid.
 

nobodyknows

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Sep 28, 2008
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Originally posted by: Atheus
Brilliant, all a terrorist needs to do is impersonate an airline pilot, and the tools for his hijack are kindly provided for him by the airline.

God your a troll.

Ah yes, but tomorrow I won't be trolling, and you'll still be stupid.

Maybe, but thankfully not as stupid as you.
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Brilliant, all a terrorist needs to do is impersonate an airline pilot, and the tools for his hijack are kindly provided for him by the airline.

Err...no. Recertification/training is required every 6 months currently. And your background is researched thoroughly before you're allowed to carry a gun in the first place...especially for an airline. And if the background check is anything like in NJ for regular civilians to get a basic Firearms ID card, he'll be caught long before anything bad happens.
 
Feb 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: mect
Originally posted by: Atheus
Brilliant, all a terrorist needs to do is impersonate an airline pilot, and the tools for his hijack are kindly provided for him by the airline.

Yeah, since he'd really need the gun if he was already in control of the plane.

Fair point. The copilot and cabin crew would notice a dud pilot though, so he'd have to take them hostage, for which he could use the gun. Or passengers could storm the cockpit and take the weapon off the pilot for themselves. Or a hijacker could take a hostage and hold them as a human shield and force the pilot to give the weapon up. Or a dozen other things. I simply don't think this would stop a hijack - it just means hijacks have to be done differently. Wouldn't putting a fat steel door on the cockpit and instructing them never to open it under any circumstances be better than actually encouraging them to come out and fight? They're hardly soldiers anyway. What makes you think they would even shoot someone if they had to? Or if they fired what makes you think they wouldn't miss and make a hole in the fuselage? Guns are not the solution to all problems.

Many, many pilots are veterans. They always get preferred treatment.

And where would the pilots shit on oceanic flights? There aren't bathrooms in the cockpit. They aren't encouraged to "come out and fight." Where have you seen that? It would be a last line of defense.

And putting a hole in the fuselage isn't a big deal if it were to occur.

For the record, I think it's a wash and makes no difference whether they carry a gun or not.
 

daishi5

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Feb 17, 2005
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Originally posted by: techs
Number of terrorist attacks stopped by pilots with guns: 0

How many terrorists have tried to use airplanes in terrorist attacks since we armed our pilots? In other words, number of terrorists who used airplanes in terrorist attacks even though pilots had guns: 0 So, we seem to be at a stalemate, although number of terrorists who attacked planes when pilots had no guns is at something like: 20. So maybe not quite a standstill. However, I am not going to try to lie to you and say that see there are no attacks so our plan worked, we just have no true evidence either way whether or not it has been effective. However, we do know it has been safe, there have been 0 incidents where passengers or crew have been injured or killed due to this policy.

Therefore consider this, we have a safety device, it will be rarely used, but if it is ever used, it could save a large number of lives each time it is used. We have been using it for 8 years, and in that time this safety device has harmed no one. We do not promise that this device will always work, sometimes it will not be enough, but we believe that it will save more lives than it will fail to save. However, some people are scared that this safety device will harm people want it removed, even though no one has been harmed yet in thousands of cases where it was present.

Take a step back, you can insert a large number of safety devices into that previous statement, and for most of those devices that you could insert into that statement, the people who want it removed would be considered idiots. Yet, somehow when we use the word "gun" that exact same reasoning becomes the norm.

For the record, before 9/11 plane hijackings were considered a hostage situation, the plane landed, and the hijackers negotiated using the planes passengers as a collateral. After 9/11 the game changed, the entire plane is a weapon, the gun in the cockpit is a last resort tool to prevent the terrorists from gaining control of the giant missle in the sky. The gun is given to the pilot as a final layer in a layered defense. We are not relying completely on the pilot, we also have the improved doors, the increased TSA stupidity, the shoe checks, bomb sniffers, and all that other stuff. The pilot is there in case the terrorists get past all the other stuff, just in case the other layers are compromised. And FYI if they compromise a pilot, even with out a gun, he can crash that plane, so even if you take the gun out of the equation, a compromised pilot is a dead plane.

The pilots are not supposed to go out and save the passengers, they are supposed to maintain control of the plane, even if the passengers are executed. It would be a horrible position to be in, but we all know that if hijackers gain control of the cockpit, a lot more than just the passengers will die. Letting them have guns is just giving them one more chance to prevent that from happening again if someone manages to defeat all the other layers of security. Taking away a layer of security just because you think bad things will happen despite the thousands of flights with no problems is just silly.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: techs
Number of terrorist attacks stopped by pilots with guns: 0

LOL! Now there is some logic. :roll:

Here it is, spun the other way:


Number of terrorist attacks on US planes since pilots were allowed to carry: 0
 
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