Now Boeing is laying off thousands!
- Thread starter piku
- Start date
Wow. That is crazy. How many more lives are going to be hurt by this tragedy?
I hope the industry gets "bailed-out".
I hope the industry gets "bailed-out".
Yeah, this is getting rediculous. The Feds are supposed to be giving a the industry a $15 billion relief package, but who knows how much good it will do.
I used to live up there. I had many friends that worked for Boeing. Boeing lays off all the time - it's cuz of the Union contract crap. I am surpirsed they didn't go broke a long time ago from all the lazy, unionized, "I'm gonna do barely anything, just enuf to get paid" kind of workers they have. I think the contract thing happenes every other year...or every 3 years or something.
EDIT: It's probably the media's usual scare tactics. I am getting rather tired of the media ALWAYS having something over-exaggerated beyond belief.
EDIT: It's probably the media's usual scare tactics. I am getting rather tired of the media ALWAYS having something over-exaggerated beyond belief.
<< I hope the industry gets "bailed-out" >>
While the Government can bail out the airline industry, they can't "bail out" the perceptions of those that might refuse to fly after the recent incidents. Even though there could be a bail-out, there will still be jobs that are lost by the potential decrease in travel alone. This is very unfortunate because of the chain effect: Airline travel --> taxi --> hotel --> restaraunt --> desk clerk --> cleaning person --> and so on...
I'm sorry, but did you guys not read my previous post?????
Boeing lay-offs are because of the Union contract thing. They always lay-off and then hire back. It's not a big deal!
Boeing lay-offs are because of the Union contract thing. They always lay-off and then hire back. It's not a big deal!
No kidding, and its not only being felt in the US, its all over the world. Canada has very close economic ties with the US, so that's not too good also. US is our biggest trade partner, so if you guys go down so do we 
I know the place my mom works (Motorcoach bus manufacturer) gets hit directly, because the company's majority orders come from NY. Things don't look too bright.
Can anybody say recession? Its inevitable now, whether the Boeing layoff is a regular thing or not. I doubt they would fully re-hire all those they've laid off, especially in such difficult times, unless they're highly skilled workers.
Plucky
I know the place my mom works (Motorcoach bus manufacturer) gets hit directly, because the company's majority orders come from NY. Things don't look too bright.
Can anybody say recession?
Its inevitable now, whether the Boeing layoff is a regular thing or not. I doubt they would fully re-hire all those they've laid off, especially in such difficult times, unless they're highly skilled workers.Plucky
Mr.IncrediblyBored
Lifer
- Jun 18, 2000
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<< I'm sorry, but did you guys not read my previous post?????
Boeing lay-offs are because of the Union contract thing. They always lay-off and then hire back. It's not a big deal! >>
Sorry. Most people here can't read.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
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I'm sorry, but did you guys not read my previous post?????
Boeing lay-offs are because of the Union contract thing. They always lay-off and then hire back. It's not a big deal!
30000 people? I find it hard to believe that all 20-30000 people are because of that especially since american airlines is laying off by the thousands and that other airline went belly up. Definitely some of this is cause of last week.
Boeing lay-offs are because of the Union contract thing. They always lay-off and then hire back. It's not a big deal!
30000 people? I find it hard to believe that all 20-30000 people are because of that especially since american airlines is laying off by the thousands and that other airline went belly up. Definitely some of this is cause of last week.
<< 30000 people? I find it hard to believe that all 20-30000 people are because of that especially since american airlines is laying off by the thousands and that other airline went belly up. Definitely some of this is cause of last week. >>
What would 1 stinkin' week have an affect on any decision that would unemploy 30000 people in another year and a half. That doesnt even make sense. If that is even remotely true it would take months to decide if that is necessary, not 7 days. I'm telling you this is entirely normal for Boeing.
EDIT: Don't forget you guys are going off on this whole thing based on a one-line headline on CNN.
StageLeft
No Lifer
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What would 1 stinkin' week have an affect on any decision that would unemploy 30000 people in another year and a half. That doesnt even make sense. If that is even remotely true it would take months to decide if that is necessary, not 7 days.
I didn't think I had to spell it out so plainly for you.
American Airlines to cut 20000 jobs
Airline bailout $15 billion
Apparently one week was enough for the airline industry. Since boeing supplies that industry weakness in airlines = weakness in boeing. I'm not saying its all cause of this and boeing may layoff people all the time but its painfully clear that last week had a major bearing on Boeing doing this.
I didn't think I had to spell it out so plainly for you.
American Airlines to cut 20000 jobs
Airline bailout $15 billion
Apparently one week was enough for the airline industry. Since boeing supplies that industry weakness in airlines = weakness in boeing. I'm not saying its all cause of this and boeing may layoff people all the time but its painfully clear that last week had a major bearing on Boeing doing this.
<< Apparently one week was enough for the airline industry. Since boeing supplies that industry weakness in airlines = weakness in boeing. I'm not saying its all cause of this and boeing may layoff people all the time but its painfully clear that last week had a major bearing on Boeing doing this. >>
*sigh*
I give up. Boeing will re-hire the employees after the contract negotiations probably in December 2002 or January 2003. Get over the "oh my god! the economy is dying!" syndrome, and actually see that Boeing has a pattern with this. This thread is full of unintelligent panic, so this will be my final post in it.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
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I give up. Boeing will re-hire the employees after the contract negotiations probably in December 2002 or January 2003. Get over the "oh my god! the economy is dying!" syndrome, and actually see that Boeing has a pattern with this. This thread is full of unintelligent panic, so this will be my final post in it.
I simply fail to understand your inability to see the correlation between what boeing is doing and what is happening in the airline industry. The airline industry (boeing makes planes) is in a crisis. One carrier just went belly up and american airlines just decided to kill 20,000 jobs. There is going to be a $15 billion bailout to keep the industry afloat. You really don't think that this airline situation had a bearing on Boeing? Boeing relies on the airline industry for much of its income. When was the last time Boeing said it would kill off 20,000 - 30,000 jobs?
I simply fail to understand your inability to see the correlation between what boeing is doing and what is happening in the airline industry. The airline industry (boeing makes planes) is in a crisis. One carrier just went belly up and american airlines just decided to kill 20,000 jobs. There is going to be a $15 billion bailout to keep the industry afloat. You really don't think that this airline situation had a bearing on Boeing? Boeing relies on the airline industry for much of its income. When was the last time Boeing said it would kill off 20,000 - 30,000 jobs?
Boeing lays off people regularly. This is no different. I grew up 15 miles from Boeing in Wichita, KS. I read about this in the newspaper regularly.
Ryan
Ryan
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
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The crisis is just speeding up what already was happening. Business travel has been drastically cut this year. The airlines probably were going to lay-off employees anyway and Boeing wouldn't be far behind them. The huge drop in revenue just pushed it up faster.
Midway Airlines was already going bust before the attacks.
This is bad news, but not something that is completely unexpected.
Michael
Midway Airlines was already going bust before the attacks.
This is bad news, but not something that is completely unexpected.
Michael
The Boeing layoff has been coming since well before the tragedy. The numbers were probably magnified as a result of the attack, but it was not the root cause of the layoff itself.
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
from the Wall Street Journal -
September 19, 2001
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boeing May Cut up to 30,000 Workers
From Commercial Aircraft Division
By J. LYNN LUNSFORD and ANDY PASZTOR
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Boeing Co., in the single largest employment cutback so far stemming from last week's terrorist attacks, said it may be forced to dismiss by the end of next year as many as 30,000 people, or nearly 30% of its commercial aircraft workers.
In an interview Tuesday night, Alan Mulally, president of the company's commercial aircraft division, said, "It looks to us both domestically and internationally that the airlines are going to need substantially fewer airplanes than they did before last week."
The layoffs, beginning before the end of the year, would mostly affect the jet maker's 93,000 commercial aircraft division employees in the Seattle area and in Wichita, Kan. Mr. Mulally said the company expects to reduce the number of airplanes it delivers this year to 500 from the 538 previously projected.
"Regrettably, that kind of production volume is consistent with us having to downsize our team by 20,000 to 30,000 employees," Mr. Mulally said.
The layoffs are likely to happen even if the airlines are successful in securing a huge relief package from Congress, the executive said. Airline officials are expected to ask Congress for as much as $24 billion in relief in hearings set to begin Thursday.
In the wake of last week's attacks on New York and Washington, D.C., many airlines contacted Boeing and rival Airbus to discuss pushing back aircraft delivery dates. Some airlines aren't exercising options, and some are seeking the return of deposits on jetliners already in the pipeline. Airlines are warning of an unprecedented cash shortage caused by the grounding of all air traffic and then the sluggish return of planes to the skies under strict new security procedures.
Mark Blondin, president of the International Association of Machinists in Seattle, said that the union had expected negative news from Boeing about potential short term earnings cuts, but that company officials had been optimistic that the downturn would be temporary. "Obviously, we're concerned here," he said. "If there are job reductions, we want to make sure that this is done equitably and that some of this burden is put on the subcontractors and vendors."
"The impact of the terrorist attacks on Boeing's order book has to be both traumatic and long term," said Nicholas Heymann, an analyst with Prudential Securities in New York. "If the events of the past week are going to restructure the entire airline industry," there is bound to be a comparable impact on the country's major plane maker, he said.
Hints about impending layoffs quietly sent by Boeing over the past day or so to union leaders and some lawmakers follow similar dire warnings from some of the company's major suppliers of engines, cockpit instruments and other components. With many airlines planning to return to only 80% of their capacity before the terrorist attacks, many investors, industry officials and Wall Street analysts for days had warned that major cutbacks at Boeing were inevitable.
Still, the size of the cutbacks could go beyond even some pessimistic projections. "Wow, what's amazing is how precipitous the decline really is. This is huge," said analyst Byron Callan III of Merrill Lynch. The news comes on top of the 26,000 layoffs already announced by airline carriers, and tens of thousands of other jobs that the airlines say are at risk unless the crisis abates quickly. Mr. Heymann estimates that without dramatic government help Boeing may be facing as much as a 40% falloff in production of shorter range, single aisle models starting in 2002.
Boeing's announcement last night didn't detail which aircraft lines would be hardest hit, but U.S. carriers already have too many narrow bodied airplanes and have said they may park as many as 750 of them around the country. The company said that its deliveries next year could drop to "the low 400s," compared with the 510 to 520 that it forecast as recently as last week. Boeing said it will "add further clarity about 2003," as events unfold.
September 19, 2001
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boeing May Cut up to 30,000 Workers
From Commercial Aircraft Division
By J. LYNN LUNSFORD and ANDY PASZTOR
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Boeing Co., in the single largest employment cutback so far stemming from last week's terrorist attacks, said it may be forced to dismiss by the end of next year as many as 30,000 people, or nearly 30% of its commercial aircraft workers.
In an interview Tuesday night, Alan Mulally, president of the company's commercial aircraft division, said, "It looks to us both domestically and internationally that the airlines are going to need substantially fewer airplanes than they did before last week."
The layoffs, beginning before the end of the year, would mostly affect the jet maker's 93,000 commercial aircraft division employees in the Seattle area and in Wichita, Kan. Mr. Mulally said the company expects to reduce the number of airplanes it delivers this year to 500 from the 538 previously projected.
"Regrettably, that kind of production volume is consistent with us having to downsize our team by 20,000 to 30,000 employees," Mr. Mulally said.
The layoffs are likely to happen even if the airlines are successful in securing a huge relief package from Congress, the executive said. Airline officials are expected to ask Congress for as much as $24 billion in relief in hearings set to begin Thursday.
In the wake of last week's attacks on New York and Washington, D.C., many airlines contacted Boeing and rival Airbus to discuss pushing back aircraft delivery dates. Some airlines aren't exercising options, and some are seeking the return of deposits on jetliners already in the pipeline. Airlines are warning of an unprecedented cash shortage caused by the grounding of all air traffic and then the sluggish return of planes to the skies under strict new security procedures.
Mark Blondin, president of the International Association of Machinists in Seattle, said that the union had expected negative news from Boeing about potential short term earnings cuts, but that company officials had been optimistic that the downturn would be temporary. "Obviously, we're concerned here," he said. "If there are job reductions, we want to make sure that this is done equitably and that some of this burden is put on the subcontractors and vendors."
"The impact of the terrorist attacks on Boeing's order book has to be both traumatic and long term," said Nicholas Heymann, an analyst with Prudential Securities in New York. "If the events of the past week are going to restructure the entire airline industry," there is bound to be a comparable impact on the country's major plane maker, he said.
Hints about impending layoffs quietly sent by Boeing over the past day or so to union leaders and some lawmakers follow similar dire warnings from some of the company's major suppliers of engines, cockpit instruments and other components. With many airlines planning to return to only 80% of their capacity before the terrorist attacks, many investors, industry officials and Wall Street analysts for days had warned that major cutbacks at Boeing were inevitable.
Still, the size of the cutbacks could go beyond even some pessimistic projections. "Wow, what's amazing is how precipitous the decline really is. This is huge," said analyst Byron Callan III of Merrill Lynch. The news comes on top of the 26,000 layoffs already announced by airline carriers, and tens of thousands of other jobs that the airlines say are at risk unless the crisis abates quickly. Mr. Heymann estimates that without dramatic government help Boeing may be facing as much as a 40% falloff in production of shorter range, single aisle models starting in 2002.
Boeing's announcement last night didn't detail which aircraft lines would be hardest hit, but U.S. carriers already have too many narrow bodied airplanes and have said they may park as many as 750 of them around the country. The company said that its deliveries next year could drop to "the low 400s," compared with the 510 to 520 that it forecast as recently as last week. Boeing said it will "add further clarity about 2003," as events unfold.
American Airlines is the biggest account the company I work for has. AA accounts for about 90-95% of my company's business and my job security, as well as my dad's, depend on AA. Here we were before last week, thinking that we had the most secure job in the nation. Our thinking was "Come Christmas or a war, planes still gotta fly." Needless to say, that thinking is useless now.
This is not just about 1 week of disrupted travel. The trauma of last week's tragedies will have a significant impact for the forseeable future. At least 1 analyst was forcasting 60% less air travel for the coming quarter. Many companies are currently discouraging employee travel. Several large conventions scheduled for the next 2 months have been canceled.
Increased fear of flying == Fewer passengers == Reduced airline revenues
Middle east crisis == Increased fuel costs == Increased airline expenses
Increased perceived risk of terrorism == Increased insurance costs == Increased airline expenses
The airline industry was already struggling, thanks to reduced business travel (because of the weak economy) and increased fuel costs. The federal bailout may keep the airlines afloat, but it won't return travel to normal.
Several of the airlines have already announced a 20% reduction in flights. Fewer flights, fewer planes needed now and in the near future. Boeing has reduced their forecast for commercial jet deliveries in 2002 by 20%.
Increased fear of flying == Fewer passengers == Reduced airline revenues
Middle east crisis == Increased fuel costs == Increased airline expenses
Increased perceived risk of terrorism == Increased insurance costs == Increased airline expenses
The airline industry was already struggling, thanks to reduced business travel (because of the weak economy) and increased fuel costs. The federal bailout may keep the airlines afloat, but it won't return travel to normal.
Several of the airlines have already announced a 20% reduction in flights. Fewer flights, fewer planes needed now and in the near future. Boeing has reduced their forecast for commercial jet deliveries in 2002 by 20%.
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