nova jfk: cold case

[OBLAMA2009]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html

did anyone see this, its pretty convincing, it changed my mind about there being multiple shooters. they hired a ballistics expert to look at it. highlights: a bullet can go through two bodies and hit bones and not be damaged/when a bullet exists the first body, it wobbles and goes off course and can make an ovular hole in the second body, providing support for the single bullet theory/when a body is shot from the back, nerves can make the body fall backward...ok so now ive saved you the trouble of watching it. so its likely there was only one shooter from the back, conspiracy still possible.

 

[TallBill]

Conclusion: Still Dead

 

[Printer Bandit]

all presidents after that towed the line.

 

[Soundmanred]

all presidents after that towed the line.

To where?

 

[Printer Bandit]

To where?

to staying alive.

 

[Scotteq]

Toe

 

[manimal]

i still think it was the mantids

 

[Iron Woode]

New investigation shows:

Oswald's first shot missed. His second shot went through the back of Kennedy's neck severing the spine and exiting out and hitting Connally.

The shot that blows Kennedy's head apart came from an AR15 round.

The only people nearby with AR15s were secret service agents. There are pictures of one in the motorcade. The secret service claimed no one was carrying an AR15.

hmmm....looks interesting.

 

[Fritzo]

My view on all TV shows like this is the same as those other "hunting Bigfoot, finding the Loch Ness Monster, searching for UFO's, etc" shows. If they had actually found anything new and provable, it would already be all over the news.

 

[chihlidog]

New investigation shows:

Oswald's first shot missed. His second shot went through the back of Kennedy's neck severing the spine and exiting out and hitting Connally.

The shot that blows Kennedy's head apart came from an AR15 round.

The only people nearby with AR15s were secret service agents. There are pictures of one in the motorcade. The secret service claimed no one was carrying an AR15.

hmmm....looks interesting.

Source?

I've read more than I care to admit about the assassination. I used to be a pretty firm believer that Oswald at least didnt act alone, but after a LOT of reading, viewing, pondering, and more reading, I've come to see that Oswald indeed took his cheap surplus rifle to work and got "lucky".

If there's actual evidence that this ISNT the case, I'd love to see it.

 

[disappoint]

There's only 1 way to find out fer sure. We have to go back in time and kill Oswaldo before he can kill the pres. Once we go back in time though, it's a race against time to find out where is Oswaldo. He's not exactly going to be wearing a striped red and white shirt that makes him easy to spot, maybe.

We can do this, but. You have to bring your own weapons.
Also your safety isn't exactly guaranteed
I've only done this once bsfore.
I can only pay you once we get back.
This isn't a joke or anything.

 

[disappoint]

Source?

I've read more than I care to admit about the assassination. I used to be a pretty firm believer that Oswald at least didnt act alone, but after a LOT of reading, viewing, pondering, and more reading, I've come to see that Oswald indeed took his cheap surplus rifle to work and got "lucky".

If there's actual evidence that this ISNT the case, I'd love to see it.

So you don't care to admit you've read nothing?

 

[Iron Woode]

Source?

I've read more than I care to admit about the assassination. I used to be a pretty firm believer that Oswald at least didnt act alone, but after a LOT of reading, viewing, pondering, and more reading, I've come to see that Oswald indeed took his cheap surplus rifle to work and got "lucky".

If there's actual evidence that this ISNT the case, I'd love to see it.

the PBS documentary deals with the Single Bullet theory.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_...et-theory-probed-using-latest-forensics-tech/

The AR15 theory is based on the bullet exploding on impact. This is based on another documentary: JFk: The Smoking Gun.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?programid=22898087

very fascinating.

 

[chihlidog]

So you don't care to admit you've read nothing?

Your arrogance and sarcasm is not necessary and already tells me what kind of conspiracy theorist you are.

But please, enlighten me. What evidence are you privy to, that apparently noone else has been, that PROVES there were other shots?

Please dont ramble on to me about anyone at the grassy knoll. Aside from the fact that a shot from there would have blown out the LEFT side of JFKs head and injured or jkilled Jackie, the ONLY hint that anything may have happened there was from Lee Bowers, who was incredibly vague and NEVER said he saw a shooter, heard a shot, etc. The grassy knoll has become this mythical hiding place for a shot that NEVER happened. And please dont bother with anything about dictabelt recording, either, because we now know that the "shots" on them were a full minute AFTER the shooting.

Or, are we going to suggest the somehow Bill Greer, in full view of everyone in Dealey Plaza, pulled a weapon, turned around, and blew his boss away? That's one of my favorites.....and clearly disproven by the Zapruder film.

Unless, of course, one wants to suggest that the Z-film was altered? Even though Kodak themselves brought GUY WHO INVENTED THE FILM out of retirement to have him look at the original, and HE said that it HAS NOT BEEN ALTERED.

So, please, oh arrogant one, enlighten me with some new bit of evidence.


(Here's a hint, actually, the best pieces of evidence are the film of Rybka wondering why the hell he was left off the car, the 30.06 shell found on the roof of the Dal Tex building, and Nixon's statement about Bay of Pigs. If you want to argue conspiracy, THOSE things at least LOOK suspicious even though they still dont prove conspiracy, but is that what you were going to try and argue?)

 

[nageov3t]

the only conspiracy theory that would have made sense to me is if there was a USSR/Cuba connection with the assassination and the CIA/FBI swept it under the rug because they didn't want to spark an outright war (like how WW1 got kicked off)... but if that was the case, wouldn't it have been declassified by now?

 

[chihlidog]

the only conspiracy theory that would have made sense to me is if there was a USSR/Cuba connection with the assassination and the CIA/FBI swept it under the rug because they didn't want to spark an outright war (like how WW1 got kicked off)... but if that was the case, wouldn't it have been declassified by now?

Many of the records are sealed for another generation. If that were the case it's likely they would NOT have declassified it by now.

However, the classified files are more for sensitive family issues. Many people didnt know that Kennedy had Addison's disease, and the family didnt want that getting out. He was also on a lot of drugs for back pain and perhaps more recreational use. Again, the family didnt want these facts getting out.

I think, if it werent for the Z-film, there would be a lot of room for speculation about such things, but unless one believes the Z-film to be altered, it's pretty clear that 2 shots did all the damage, and that those 2 shots very likely did come from the 6th floor window.

 

[Oyeve]

There's only 1 way to find out fer sure. We have to go back in time and kill Oswaldo before he can kill the pres. Once we go back in time though, it's a race against time to find out where is Oswaldo. He's not exactly going to be wearing a striped red and white shirt that makes him easy to spot, maybe.

We can do this, but. You have to bring your own weapons.
Also your safety isn't exactly guaranteed
I've only done this once bsfore.
I can only pay you once we get back.
This isn't a joke or anything.

read stephen kings 11/22/63. Pretty cool concept.

 

[sixone]

Too much focus on the bullets, when we should be looking at why they were fired in the first place. What was Oswald's motivation?

 

[nf4m]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html

did anyone see this, its pretty convincing, it changed my mind about there being multiple shooters. they hired a ballistics expert to look at it. highlights: a bullet can go through two bodies and hit bones and not be damaged/when a bullet exists the first body, it wobbles and goes off course and can make an ovular hole in the second body, providing support for the single bullet theory/when a body is shot from the back, nerves can make the body fall backward...ok so now ive saved you the trouble of watching it. so its likely there was only one shooter from the back, conspiracy still possible.

to believe those lies, you'll have to ignore all the corroborating railroad workers/eyewitnesses who saw gunsmoke and heard rifle shots coming from the grassy knoll/fence area:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEq63vTOwcI


you'll also have to ignore all the extra bullet hole damage of the limo that was never acknowledged by the warren commission:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtFoPCKVp-8
(and LOL at removing the entire curbstone where another bullet was found)


but i'm the sure the magic bullet found in near pristine condition with no dna, blood, or human tissue on it won't change your mind either.

head in sand. hear no evil, see no evil.

 

[chihlidog]

to believe those lies, you'll have to ignore all the corroborating railroad workers/eyewitnesses who saw gunsmoke and heard rifle shots coming from the grassy knoll/fence area:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEq63vTOwcI


you'll also have to ignore all the extra bullet hole damage of the limo that was never acknowledged by the warren commission:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtFoPCKVp-8
(and LOL at removing the entire curbstone where another bullet was found)


but i'm the sure the magic bullet found in near pristine condition with no dna, blood, or human tissue on it won't change your mind either.

head in sand. hear no evil, see no evil.

Lee Bowers didnt initially say that he saw a shot/smoke/assassins/what have you. He testified to the Warren Commission that he saw something out of place that he couldnt put his finger on. But not anything specific. This could be from a million different things, especially in a situation like that.

Even if one wishes to argue that he DID see a shot, again I ask how a shot from the grassy knoll would have had the effect shown in the Z-film. Gruesome as it is, careful study of those few frames makes it clear that the headshot produced blood, brain and skull flying up and forward. JFK himself also moves slightly forward at the moment of impact. How does this in any way indicate a shot from the knoll?

I am very open minded about the assassination and I spent a long time looking at every piece of information I could, and I would LIKE to see some evidence that the warren commission got it wrong (or intentionally covered it up). So I'm not debating with you out of any desire to believe the official line. I'm just a guy that REALLY wanted to know what happened, initially didnt believe Oswald did it, and became convinced otherwise. I'm still fascinated by the whole debate in general so please, prove me wrong if there is indeed proof.

 

[z1ggy]

I watched the actual footage online. Saw the first shot go through him and it looks like he kind of grabs at his neck/upper chest area. Second shot comes a few seconds later and his head (well.. what's left of it.. ) blows backwards, which instantly made me think the head shot came from infront of him, not behind.

And obviously some documentary isn't going to come out saying there were two shooters. People would freak out and it would lead to way more questions than answers. Overall it wouldn't do any good. People want closure and saying one guy acting alone would do just that.

Edit: Just read post above me. From what I saw/remember, the head shot didn't blow his head forward. But I watched this probably over a year ago, maybe I am wrong. I'd like to watch the footage again to refresh my memory.

Honestly, it would not surprise me at all that this was an inside job. With the recent revalations about what the NSA has been up to for at least a decade, I would not doubt some nut in the CIA or other domestic super secret agency could pull off something like this, then sweep it under the rug.

As a side note, I read on reddit the other day that the official autopsy files on JFK were burned/destroyed by the medical examiner. And that his remains, specifically his brain are hidden/not to be examined anymore. True?

 

[nf4m]

Lee Bowers didnt initially say that he saw a shot/smoke/assassins/what have you. He testified to the Warren Commission that he saw something out of place that he couldnt put his finger on. But not anything specific. This could be from a million different things, especially in a situation like that.

Even if one wishes to argue that he DID see a shot, again I ask how a shot from the grassy knoll would have had the effect shown in the Z-film. Gruesome as it is, careful study of those few frames makes it clear that the headshot produced blood, brain and skull flying up and forward. JFK himself also moves slightly forward at the moment of impact. How does this in any way indicate a shot from the knoll?

ridiculous. secret service agents running behind the limo had blood splattered all over them from the head shot. they were also picking up his brain matter at the trunk of the limo.

edit: also, 1 frame out of what, 50, had jfk's head moving forward? all the other passengers' heads were moving forward in that one particular frame as well, indicating a camera issue.

I am very open minded about the assassination and I spent a long time looking at every piece of information I could, and I would LIKE to see some evidence that the warren commission got it wrong (or intentionally covered it up). So I'm not debating with you out of any desire to believe the official line. I'm just a guy that REALLY wanted to know what happened, initially didnt believe Oswald did it, and became convinced otherwise. I'm still fascinated by the whole debate in general so please, prove me wrong if there is indeed proof.

if you consider yourself open minded, why did you ignore the links i just posted?

corroborating railroad workers/eyewitnesses who saw gunsmoke and heard rifle shots coming from the grassy knoll/fence area:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEq63vTOwcI

extra bullet hole damage of the limo that was never acknowledged by the warren commission:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtFoPCKVp-8
(and LOL at video footage removing the entire curbstone where another bullet was found)


but i'm the sure the magic bullet found in near pristine condition with no dna, blood, or human tissue on it won't change your mind either.

head in sand. hear no evil, see no evil.

 

[chihlidog]

I watched the actual footage online. Saw the first shot go through him and it looks like he kind of grabs at his neck/upper chest area. Second shot comes a few seconds later and his head (well.. what's left of it.. ) blows backwards, which instantly made me think the head shot came from infront of him, not behind.

And obviously some documentary isn't going to come out saying there were two shooters. People would freak out and it would lead to way more questions than answers. Overall it wouldn't do any good. People want closure and saying one guy acting alone would do just that.

Please watch it again. And again. Closely.

I used to think the same thing, but there are a few things in the Z-film that once you SEE, really make sense of the single bullet theory and the headshot from behind.

First, JFK and Connally both seem to react to a shot at the same time, RIGHT as Kennedy emerges from behind the sign. Connally is sort of a jerk motion and a change in facial expression, it isnt as extreme as JFK bringing his hands up. But the initial impact seems to register on both of them at the same time.

Also, as I mentioned above, Kennedy DOES fly backwards, but he goes FORWARDS first, quickly and slightly, as one would expect from a bullet impact. Gunshots dont often move whole bodies, otherwise the shooter would get blown back like that from the recoil. Momentum.

Watch very, very carefully, and you'll see what I mean. Lastly, like I said, the brain and blood goes UP and slightly forward. I know exactly what you mean because I used to see the SAME things in it as you do, but the less obvious motions in the film come clear with repeated views.

 

[nf4m]

Also, as I mentioned above, Kennedy DOES fly backwards, but he goes FORWARDS first, quickly and slightly, as one would expect from a bullet impact. Gunshots dont often move whole bodies, otherwise the shooter would get blown back like that from the recoil. Momentum.

lol. the heads of all the passengers tick forward for 1 frame. that's pretty much your entire argument supporting the obvious official lie.

 

[chihlidog]

ridiculous. secret service agents running behind the limo had blood splattered all over them from the head shot. they were also picking up his brain matter at the trunk of the limo.

edit: also, 1 frame out of what, 50, had jfk's head moving forward? all the other passengers' heads were moving forward in that one particular frame as well, indicating a camera issue.



if you consider yourself open minded, why did you ignore the links i just posted?

corroborating railroad workers/eyewitnesses who saw gunsmoke and heard rifle shots coming from the grassy knoll/fence area:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEq63vTOwcI

extra bullet hole damage of the limo that was never acknowledged by the warren commission:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtFoPCKVp-8
(and LOL at video footage removing the entire curbstone where another bullet was found)


but i'm the sure the magic bullet found in near pristine condition with no dna, blood, or human tissue on it won't change your mind either.

head in sand. hear no evil, see no evil.

The brain and blood ended up on the trunk, all over some of the motorcycle officers and all over the place in general. They were all moving FORWARD. Think about it. Brain/blood gets sprayed up and forms sort of this cloud. The vehicles move forward faster than the material and so move sort of through it. It also begins falling on them. Everyone around there got sprayed. Think about how things were all moving relative to each other and it makes sense.

And no, I didnt watch the link, I'm at work. Cant. However, I know the facts and the INITIAL testimony never said anything about gunshots from the knoll. And even if it did, nobody can explain how a shot from the knoll blew out the RIGHT side of JFK's head, how Jackie came out uninjured, or why the shooter isnt visible in photographs of the knoll taken at the time of the headshot.