'nother question for Christians

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: thirtythree
According to Mormons, you go to the spirit world after dying (divided into paradise and prison, I believe). Then you hang out there till the second coming... umm. I think. And everyone is resurrected then judged and sorted into one of the three kingdoms (good, better, best... best = the earth in it's perfect state) or outer darkness. There's also a period of 1000 years (called "The Millenium") in there somewhere, perhaps between resurrection and judgment. I thought that took place on the earth as well, but I could be wrong.

Very close. Judgment does not take place until after the millenium and another small period of time after that. All people must have lived and died prior to Judgment Day. However, many will be resurrected at the time of the Millenium. I think that might be what you're confused on. But other than that, appears to be correct. :thumbsup:

Well, I haven't been to church in 4 years, so I forgive myself for botching some of the details.

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: Conky
I don't get the need to alway put Christians on the defensive

THANK YOU!!

Though I suspect it's because our beliefs tell most people they're not going to make it on their own. Look at the religions that dictate that you just have to avoid killing people and basically being a nice guy, no one attacks them now do they?

 

[AreaCode707]

There isn't a formal definition, consistent throughout all Christianity, by which Christians can provide you an answer. Some read the scriptures very straightforwardly, others see many shades of meaning, various places and times, etc. No one person can know with any more certainty than any other.

For what it's worth, here's the verse that came to my mind when I read your question:


Luke 23
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

 

[iamaelephant]

LOL. Heaven.

 

[FeuerFrei]

Originally posted by: djheater
What happens when you die?

Do you wait til the second coming for judgement or do you proceed immediately to heaven?

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep"
1 Thessalonians 4:15

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
John 14:2,3

Jesus seems to say in John, "Wait here for me, I'll be back."

Popular culture seems to indicate that we go directly to heaven, and that are loved ones who went before will be waiting there for us.
These verses seems to indicate that everyone is just in stasis waiting for the second coming.

Thoughts?

That Thessalonians verse is addressing resurrection. The bodies of the dead in Christ will be resurrected before those who are still alive. Currently those in heaven do not have their bodies... as I understand it.
I think the "dwelling places" that are being prepared will be inhabited once everyone receives their brand new glorified body modeled loosely on the old one. Jesus is saying he will come back for the church as a body of believers ... not necessarily the exact individuals he was talking to. I seriously doubt anyone who dies today is going to wait around in limbo or purgatory or what-have-you.

(I haven't read most of this thread ... yet)

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: HotChic
There isn't a formal definition, consistent throughout all Christianity, by which Christians can provide you an answer. Some read the scriptures very straightforwardly, others see many shades of meaning, various places and times, etc. No one person can know with any more certainty than any other.

For what it's worth, here's the verse that came to my mind when I read your question:


Luke 23
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Thanks!

I guess I'm a little surprised at the range and inconsistency of answers. It would seem from an outsider's (once an insider) perspective, that this would be a central tenet of Christianity which each sect would have addressed and answered purposefully.

Here's the wiki

 

[GoingUp]

You rot in the ground.

 

[mrkun]

Well, since God and Heaven exist outside of time, it's a rather meaningless question.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: djheater
What happens when you die?

Do you wait til the second coming for judgement or do you proceed immediately to heaven?

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep"
1 Thessalonians 4:15

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
John 14:2,3

Jesus seems to say in John, "Wait here for me, I'll be back."

Popular culture seems to indicate that we go directly to heaven, and that are loved ones who went before will be waiting there for us.
These verses seems to indicate that everyone is just in stasis waiting for the second coming.

Thoughts?

What does it matter that they don't know the answer? Pose that query to a theology student or professor and see what kind of answer you get.

 

[doze]

Catholics go to purgatory first to be purified of their sins then go to heaven

Those not eligible for heaven go to hell

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: doze
Catholics go to purgatory first to be purified of their sins then go to heaven

Those not eligible for heaven go to hell

Lol. You think God sends people to different places based on their particular sect of Christianity?

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Luke 23
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

QFT!

 

[nonameo]

Given the parameters with which we are working, I'd have to say that from the personal perspective, there would be an immediate ascention, but the actual ascention would happen during the second coming. It would be like cutting a huge chunk of film out of a movie and splicing the ends back together.

Fixes everything.

 

[NiteWulf]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: djheater
"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep"
1 Thessalonians 4:15

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
John 14:2,3

OMG, two scriptures that can be interpretted as contradictory......the entire faith is going to collapse now. How could nobody have ever seen this before?????!!!!!

I don't see how those can be contradictory...

I think engineereeyore covered it pretty well. A couple of those are ambiguous to whether they're talking about the dead or the living. I would add the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. I suppose it's debatable whether the story is factual, but Jesus said it literally and there are other scriptures supporting the idea of the "Hadean world" where souls go to await the Judgement. The good go to Abraham's bosom and the evil go to Hell until Jesus comes again

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: djheater
What happens when you die?

Do you wait til the second coming for judgement or do you proceed immediately to heaven?

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep"
1 Thessalonians 4:15

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
John 14:2,3

Jesus seems to say in John, "Wait here for me, I'll be back."

Popular culture seems to indicate that we go directly to heaven, and that are loved ones who went before will be waiting there for us.
These verses seems to indicate that everyone is just in stasis waiting for the second coming.

Thoughts?

What does it matter that they don't know the answer? Pose that query to a theology student or professor and see what kind of answer you get.

I would imagine, as I've said, that to a practitioner, it doesn't matter at all, being a question of faith.

What is interesting as an observer is that there's no immediate clear answer. It's not something like the ten commandments or mortal sins.

For the record, I created this thread in the spirit of inquiry, truly. I've received a few sincere responses along with some jumpy defensive ones. Of course I disregard the retarded ones entirely. I asked what I consider to be a straight question and a few have chosen to imply, probably based on their own negative experiences, that this is a guarded attempt to discredit Christianity. It's not. I have a respect for religion, and the utmost respect for people of faith.

 

[markgm]

I was taught that their are two judgements, the one when you die and then one at the end of the world. The first is a personal judgement where you go to heaven/purgatory or hell and the second is a public one where loosely you see where everyone else went. There is a lot of stuff on the web if you search for particular and general judgements. I'm Catholic BTW, so YMMV.

Text
Belief in final judgment is held firmly by the Roman Catholic Church and its followers. The Roman Catholic Church believes this last judgment is not a literal trial, as those who have already died are either in Hell, Heaven, or awaiting Heaven in Purgatory, as a result of their particular judgment on their death.

The last judgment instead will occur after the resurrection of the dead and the reuniting of the body and soul, in which the sins and judgement for each person will be made present to all before their status in eternal life is resumed. At this point both the pleasures of Heaven and the pains of Hell will be perfected in that those present will also be capable of physical pleasure/pain.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: NiteWulf
I don't see how those can be contradictory...

I think engineereeyore covered it pretty well. A couple of those are ambiguous to whether they're talking about the dead or the living. I would add the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. I suppose it's debatable whether the story is factual, but Jesus said it literally and there are other scriptures supporting the idea of the "Hadean world" where souls go to await the Judgement. The good go to Abraham's bosom and the evil go to Hell until Jesus comes again

Very true. Some of the scriptures I listed could well be interpreted in both ways. Given the context in which they were given, I feel they are intended the way I think they are. But again, I've been wrong before and very well may be now. But it makes sense to me.

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: djheater

I have a respect for religion, and the utmost respect for people of faith.

Does this extend to Islamic terrorists as well?

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: mrkun

Originally posted by: djheater

I have a respect for religion, and the utmost respect for people of faith.

Does this extend to Islamic terrorists as well?

I believe everyone should have a very healthy respect for people who are willing to blow themselves up over their ideological convictions, whether those convictions happen to be religious or not.

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: djheater

Originally posted by: mrkun

Originally posted by: djheater

I have a respect for religion, and the utmost respect for people of faith.

Does this extend to Islamic terrorists as well?

I believe everyone should have a very healthy respect for people who are willing to blow themselves up over their ideological convictions, whether those convictions happen to be religious or not.

Hehe. Cool.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: doze
Catholics go to purgatory first to be purified of their sins then go to heaven

Those not eligible for heaven go to hell

On that note I think my go to heaven pass got revoked.



AUsm

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: djheater

Originally posted by: mrkun

Originally posted by: djheater

I have a respect for religion, and the utmost respect for people of faith.

Does this extend to Islamic terrorists as well?

I believe everyone should have a very healthy respect for people who are willing to blow themselves up over their ideological convictions, whether those convictions happen to be religious or not.

I :heart: the way you phrased that answer to a troll question.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
There is no way anyone, of any religion, can tell you with any degree of certainty exactly what happens after death.

..we get recycled back into the system to be used for future construction.

 

[Luthien]

Originally posted by: kstu
why don't you check it out for yourself? report back with your findings.

OMFG, LMFAO.

 

[Luthien]

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: doze
Catholics go to purgatory first to be purified of their sins then go to heaven

Those not eligible for heaven go to hell

Does anyone that goes to purgatory not eventually get into heaven? What do they do in purgatory to atone for their sins? I thought jesus dying on the cross automatically forgave their sins if they believed in him. Obviously if they make it to purgatory they must believe in him, yes? Purgatory seems like a redundant waste.