Not suprisingly, Israel insists that continuing to buld settlements on occupied territory

[magomago]

Note :This is to highlight that hippocracy occurs on BOTH sides. Some of you here only assume the Palestinians break promises.

Israel 'lax on demolition orders'
Jewish settlers

Israel has carried out only 3% of its own demolition orders in Jewish settlements in the West Bank, Israeli anti-settlement campaigners say.

Seriously - we talk about recognizing the right of Israel to exist...when are we going to recognize the right of Palestine to exist?

In the past 10 years, nearly 3,500 demolition orders were issued but just over 100 were observed, the Peace Now group says, citing government figures.

Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat has asked the US to block Israeli plans for 300 new homes in east Jerusalem.

Israel argues that the building does not contravene its peace commitments.

:roll: Unless they have to bring out the barrage of lawyers to prove on a TECHNICALITY that this doesn't violate peace commitment, it doesn't take an idiot to see that it absolutely does.
"The sky is Green"

The Israeli housing ministry has announced a tender for 307 housing units in the Har Homa settlement.

It is the first such move since Israeli-Palestinian negotiations were relaunched at the US-sponsored meeting in Annapolis last week.

Yaaay for annapolis - its going to fail before its begun!
'Undermining Annapolis'

According to Peace Now, the Israeli military handed it 3,449 files on illegal buildings in settlements over the past decade but only 107 have been dismantled.

The decision to construct now is a provocation
Yariv Oppenheimer,
Peace Now

THANK YOU.

A further 171 structures were evacuated by their tenants.

"On the one hand Israel promises not to build new settlements and not to develop the existing settlements... but in reality the construction works continue vigorously," the group said in its report.

Mr Erekat said he had sent an urgent message to US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, asking her to block the Har Homa project.

"This is undermining Annapolis," he said, referring to the new peace talks begun last week at the Annapolis conference in the US.

Yariv Oppenheimer, head of Peace Now's settlement watchdog, said the new tender raised questions about Israel's intentions.

Again - the classic case of "listen to what we say, not what we do".

"The decision to construct now is a provocation that raises questions about Israel's readiness to negotiate a peace deal," he told Agence France-Presse news agency.

Mark Regev, spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, said the government made a clear distinction between the West Bank and East Jerusalem, "which falls under Israeli sovereignty".

*sigh* They just reallllllllllllllly dopn't want peace, do they?

 

[Nebor]

Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

 

[chucky2]

Some days I just wish the US would publically tell Israel: You are now on your own.

Then what will come to be will come to be...

I know it'll never happen, but, this type of sh1t is just unreal.....

Chuck

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: chucky2
Some days I just wish the US would publically tell Israel: You are now on your own.

Then what will come to be will come to be...

I know it'll never happen, but, this type of sh1t is just unreal.....

Chuck

actually I am appalled by your anti Israeli statements!

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

So what do you propose we do Nebor? Maybe exterminate six million Palestinians who have become third class citizens in the land of their birth so the six million Israelis can enjoy the land they partly stole from Palestinians in peace?

You Nebor, are just a hell of a sad and sorry example of a human being for making the statement you did.

Many of us realize that this whole Palestinian question is a complex question of many rights and wrongs on both sides. Its a long struggle now approaching year 60 and neither side is going to get a peaceful solution without making major compromises.

And those compromises start with addressing Palestinians concerns.

As much as some idiots wish for a total team Israel victory, it ain't gonna happen. By UN mandate, the land annexed by Israel in the 1967 war can't be retained.

Now GWB and Condi Rice are working on a peace conference that could help start resolving some of these issues. Continuing Israeli settlement on disputed lands can only help doom any possible settlement. And may long term doom the State of Israel.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Nebor
Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

So what do you propose we do Nebor? Maybe exterminate six million Palestinians who have become third class citizens in the land of their birth so the six million Israelis can enjoy the land they partly stole from Palestinians in peace?

You Nebor, are just a hell of a sad and sorry example of a human being for making the statement you did.

Many of us realize that this whole Palestinian question is a complex question of many rights and wrongs on both sides. Its a long struggle now approaching year 60 and neither side is going to get a peaceful solution without making major compromises.

And those compromises start with addressing Palestinians concerns.

As much as some idiots wish for a total team Israel victory, it ain't gonna happen. By UN mandate, the land annexed by Israel in the 1967 war can't be retained.

Now GWB and Condi Rice are working on a peace conference that could help start resolving some of these issues. Continuing Israeli settlement on disputed lands can only help doom any possible settlement. And may long term doom the State of Israel.

Israel was there before Palestine was..so its there land of birth that Palestine stole..

See how circular that argument is? Its why no one uses it.


@ the post

I see no problem with building homes in Jerusalem. If there were building them in the west bank..or Golan..perhaps, but Jeusalem, no, that is fine to the majority of people.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: chucky2
Some days I just wish the US would publically tell Israel: You are now on your own.

Then what will come to be will come to be...

I know it'll never happen, but, this type of sh1t is just unreal.....

Chuck

actually I am appalled by your anti Israeli statements!

Because of my past pro-Stop the Radical's now type posts?

Israel has been digging their own hole's now forever. I realize the Israel's get their civilian population butchered and the rest of the world doesn't give a sh1t...but they've got to realize that's not going to change while they continue to F over the Palestinians.

I sometimes wonder if Israel shouldn't just open all of Israel up and say it's both our countries now, lets not start World Jew 3...

Chuck

 

[Lemon law]

To Richard E.

The Palestinian people already occupied land shared with Jewish settlers when the 1948 mandate formed the State of Israel that was supposed to govern both Jews and Palestinians then indigenous to the area. As for Jerusalem, 100% of the that land was annexed in the 1967 war and none of it actually belongs to Israel by UN membership founding charter principles. Just because Israel wants to ignore those facts, does not mean the other sides do. The right to return from 1948 also still drive much of the conflict.

The fact that you----" I see no problem with building homes in Jerusalem. " shows you see only what you want to see. Which means you see only a tiny part of reality and no part of what amounts to a workable peace deal all sides can accept.

 

[brownzilla786]

Isn't this against International law?

The Geneva Conventions and other international tractates recognize that land a) conquered in the course of a war; and b) the disposition of which is unresolved through subsequent peace treaties is "occupied" and subject to international laws of war and international humanitarian law. This includes special protection of individuals in those territories, limitations on the use of land in those territories, and access by international relief agencies.

It is sad that everyone is turning a blind eye to this conflict

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Richard E.

The Palestinian people already occupied land shared with Jewish settlers when the 1948 mandate formed the State of Israel that was supposed to govern both Jews and Palestinians then indigenous to the area. As for Jerusalem, 100% of the that land was annexed in the 1967 war and none of it actually belongs to Israel by UN membership founding charter principles. Just because Israel wants to ignore those facts, does not mean the other sides do. The right to return from 1948 also still drive much of the conflict.

The fact that you----" I see no problem with building homes in Jerusalem. " shows you see only what you want to see. Which means you see only a tiny part of reality and no part of what amounts to a workable peace deal all sides can accept.

See the problem is, the same rules you want to hold Israel standard too, you have no problem allowing the Palestinians to walk over. So its not ok for Jerusalem to belong to the Jews because Jerusalem was declared an international city, but it will be ok for Palestine to hold onto half of it as her capital? So, its only ok to break the rules as long as they favor you is what I am seeing here.

Not only that..I mean lets forget that entirely.



Do you know the short history of East Jerusalem?

It was captured "see Annexed" by Jordan in the 1948 Israel/Arab war...

Than retaken (or annexed if your from palestine) by Israel (from Jordan) in the 1967 war. So in the end Israel just took back what was stolen from them.


Also, take a look at the difference in treatment..

Jordan captures/Annexes East Jerusalem and expells all jews.. Israel takes it, and allows Muslims to continue living there.

Not only that, but during Jordan rule, Jews were not allowed to visit there holy sites in East Jerusalem, but come Israel rule, all religions can.

So it wasn't "stolen" during the 6 day war, it was taken back as it had been stolen from them

 

[Jaskalas]

Israel building on its own land? Outside our common Muslim enemy crying fowl over Israel?s continued existence, I see nothing wrong with that.

The day we listen to those who tell us to surrender or die, is the day I wonder when exactly western civilization fell from within.

 

[RichardE]

As a followup to my post. Lemonlaw explain to me where Palestine has any claim to Jerusalem at all. Before Israel owned it, Jordan owned it, Jordan has not made a fuss at all regarding this, because they stole it from Israel in the first place. Britain had it before Israel. They have no claim to it at all, the only people with a somewhat legitatmate claim would be Jordan, but there claim is the same as Israels (not taking religion into account).

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE
As a followup to my post. Lemonlaw explain to me where Palestine has any claim to Jerusalem at all. Before Israel owned it, Jordan owned it, Jordan has not made a fuss at all regarding this, because they stole it from Israel in the first place.

Yet it wasn't Israeli's in the first place.

Originally posted by: RichardE
Britain had it before Israel.

Britain only had adminstrative control though temporary mandate by the League of Nations, which also provisionally recognized Palestine as an independent nation.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE
As a followup to my post. Lemonlaw explain to me where Palestine has any claim to Jerusalem at all. Before Israel owned it, Jordan owned it, Jordan has not made a fuss at all regarding this, because they stole it from Israel in the first place.

Yet it wasn't Israeli's in the first place.

Originally posted by: RichardE
Britain had it before Israel.

Britain only had adminstrative control though temporary mandate by the League of Nations, which also provisionally recognized Palestine as an independent nation.

And Israel had it before than as well when they first settled there a few thousand years ago. This argument is circular as I stated. The fact is, the Arab/Israel conflict came into play in 1948, at which time Israel was a nation. (yes there was scirmages, uprisings ect before than, but they were not involving Israel directly.)

The point I was making though, was to "return" the land from the 67 war to Jordan, would not make sense because Jordan took it in 48 the same way.


The Palestinian people have always been a conquered people. When they were offered there own country (The partition plan) they rejected it. Of course, this really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, just more foder for people to consider.

In the end I cannot see any claim over any part of Jerusalem by a "Palestinians" state as valid. In an ideal world it would go back to the partition plan (as far as Jerusalem went) and Jerusalem would become a international city.

 

[TheNewbie]

Originally posted by: chucky2
Some days I just wish the US would publically tell Israel: You are now on your own.

Then what will come to be will come to be...

I know it'll never happen, but, this type of sh1t is just unreal.....

Chuck

I second that.

But,

Once we tell Israel which the 5th or 6th (depends which source you follow) largest nuclear power in the world and is surrounded by enemies (oh, which btw happen to be our enemies as well..) that they're on their own, what the fuck do you think is going to happen you little <<words that would get me banned here>> ?!

Seriously people, and I'm addressing the arabs/arabs supporters crowed here, us leaving Israel on its own, will only get you into much more trouble than you can imagine, you should thank us for keeping Israel on a leash and stopping it from wiping out entire countries with all your families and friends.
Israel is just a fact you're going to have to start accepting, or just waste the rest of your lives bitching about it.

 

[Lemon law]

Face the facts, Jerusalem is one of the most conquered cities in the world. Before the jews occupied it in biblical times others occupied it. Its belonged to many Muslim nations since, its been twice occupied and then lost by Christians during the crusades, and has since been occupied by the British and now its again under the de facto control of Israel. And in the process of its long history, its become a holy city for different reasons by all three major branches of the Abramatic faiths.

With Jerusalem, having is not holding in the longer sweep of history. Any possible Israeli peace deal may also involve the experiment of sharing what amounts to a city made holy by three major world religions. Those piggish enough to want it all may discover they end up with nothing at all.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Face the facts, Jerusalem is one of the most conquered cities in the world. Before the jews occupied it in biblical times others occupied it. Its belonged to many Muslim nations since, its been twice occupied and then lost by Christians during the crusades, and has since been occupied by the British and now its again under the de facto control of Israel. And in the process of its long history, its become a holy city for different reasons by all three major branches of the Abramatic faiths.

With Jerusalem, having is not holding in the longer sweep of history. Any possible Israeli peace deal may also involve the experiment of sharing what amounts to a city made holy by three major world religions. Those piggish enough to want it all may discover they end up with nothing at all.

Yet you want it returned to Palestine/Jordan...

Also, don't forget. Jewish control of the city is the first time all religions had access to the holy site..


And one finaly comment before I go to bed...

Those piggish enough to want it all may discover they end up with nothing at all.

Is exactly what happened to Palestine when they refused the partition offer that would have made two states.

 

[Czar]

RichardE,
All it is being asked for is the land before 1967, that means that Israel has half of Jerusalem. Israel is against that whatever they say because they are slowly building up neighborhouds around east Jerusalem which is mostly built by Palestinians. While those new settlements are buing built and enlarged the palestinians living in east jerusalem are being suffocated by having them require a permit for anything to do with housing from Israel. Permits are routinely denied so east Jerusalem does not grow because Israel does not want it to grow.

Israel is creating a situation where returning east Jerusalem in a final peace deal is impossible (or at least make it sound like impossible).

This is a fact.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Nebor
Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

So what do you propose we do Nebor? Maybe exterminate six million Palestinians who have become third class citizens in the land of their birth so the six million Israelis can enjoy the land they partly stole from Palestinians in peace?

You Nebor, are just a hell of a sad and sorry example of a human being for making the statement you did.

Many of us realize that this whole Palestinian question is a complex question of many rights and wrongs on both sides. Its a long struggle now approaching year 60 and neither side is going to get a peaceful solution without making major compromises.

And those compromises start with addressing Palestinians concerns.

As much as some idiots wish for a total team Israel victory, it ain't gonna happen. By UN mandate, the land annexed by Israel in the 1967 war can't be retained.

Now GWB and Condi Rice are working on a peace conference that could help start resolving some of these issues. Continuing Israeli settlement on disputed lands can only help doom any possible settlement. And may long term doom the State of Israel.

here`s Lemon misrepresenting the facts to twist them to meet his needs

 

[TheNewbie]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Nebor
Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

So what do you propose we do Nebor? Maybe exterminate six million Palestinians who have become third class citizens in the land of their birth so the six million Israelis can enjoy the land they partly stole from Palestinians in peace?

You Nebor, are just a hell of a sad and sorry example of a human being for making the statement you did.

Many of us realize that this whole Palestinian question is a complex question of many rights and wrongs on both sides. Its a long struggle now approaching year 60 and neither side is going to get a peaceful solution without making major compromises.

And those compromises start with addressing Palestinians concerns.

As much as some idiots wish for a total team Israel victory, it ain't gonna happen. By UN mandate, the land annexed by Israel in the 1967 war can't be retained.

Now GWB and Condi Rice are working on a peace conference that could help start resolving some of these issues. Continuing Israeli settlement on disputed lands can only help doom any possible settlement. And may long term doom the State of Israel.

here`s Lemon misrepresenting the facts to twist them to meet his needs

I have to wonder about it, I'm not sure he's intentionally misrepresenting the facts, because after reading what he wrote I get the impression that he just has no idea of what he's talking about.
Maybe he is only fed by some biased news articles which make the Palestinians look really poor and Israel really bad.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

The US mantra towards Israel has been and is:
Israel can do no wrong. The Palestinians are Muslims so it is okay for them to hit the wall.

 

[TheNewbie]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: Nebor
Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

The US mantra towards Israel has been and is:
Israel can do no wrong. The Palestinians are Muslims so it is okay for them to hit the wall.

Wow, you've managed one of the following two impressive achievments:

1. Describe accurately the entire U.S policy both historically and now towards Israel in less than 20 words.
2. Make yourself look like one of the bigger idiots around here.

I remind you, you've accomplished just one of the above, I don't really expect you to guess the correct one.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: TheNewbie

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: Nebor
Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

The US mantra towards Israel has been and is:
Israel can do no wrong. The Palestinians are Muslims so it is okay for them to hit the wall.

Wow, you've managed one of the following two impressive achievments:

1. Describe accurately the entire U.S policy both historically and now towards Israel in less than 20 words.
2. Make yourself look like one of the bigger idiots around here.

I remind you, you've accomplished just one of the above, I don't really expect you to guess the correct one.

😕

What?

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Originally posted by: TheNewbie

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: Nebor
Palestine has no right to exist. They exist at the discretion of Israel.

The US mantra towards Israel has been and is:
Israel can do no wrong. The Palestinians are Muslims so it is okay for them to hit the wall.

Wow, you've managed one of the following two impressive achievments:

1. Describe accurately the entire U.S policy both historically and now towards Israel in less than 20 words.
2. Make yourself look like one of the bigger idiots around here.

I remind you, you've accomplished just one of the above, I don't really expect you to guess the correct one.

Learn 2 make sense when you troll.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Czar
RichardE,
All it is being asked for is the land before 1967, that means that Israel has half of Jerusalem. Israel is against that whatever they say because they are slowly building up neighborhouds around east Jerusalem which is mostly built by Palestinians. While those new settlements are buing built and enlarged the palestinians living in east jerusalem are being suffocated by having them require a permit for anything to do with housing from Israel. Permits are routinely denied so east Jerusalem does not grow because Israel does not want it to grow.

Israel is creating a situation where returning east Jerusalem in a final peace deal is impossible (or at least make it sound like impossible).

This is a fact.

Actually, the resolution says "previous wars" or "recent wars" So would that means Israel gets all of Jerusalem back since half was stolen from her in 48? Or does the giving back of territory only apply to one side?

I seriously doubt you know as much of this as you think since you did not know that Jordan had infact annexed East Jerusalem before from Israel. There is no "giving back" East Jerusalem, because it never belonged to anyone else.