Not a good way to start the week..........

[mrblotto]

So the wife is driving our Jeep ('01 135k 4WD)on a delivery (we own a business) about 15mi from the shop. About a mile in on the return trip, the 'gauges just went crazy' in my wife's words. Then it started making a 'funny noise' (wife's words again), then died. She had to pull off of the main 4 lane highway. Fortunately someone came along to help her. Turns out:
-Radiator, despite 2 'professional flushes' and (1) 3 hour nonprofessional flush by my friend and I, still has tons of rust in it.......sigh. It has overheated and the engine quit.
-Brake fluid is leaking out of the rear passenger wheel (brake cylinder/resevoir?)
-Rear brake shoes need replaced
-Front pads are wearing thin

Took it to a garage. The mechanic flushed it once again and took it for a drive. About 10 mins in the temp gauge pegged. He thinks the little holes (whatever they're called) are plugged causing the thing to overheat. Replacement radiator time! Looks to be about $100 for the rad.

That was yesterday.

Today, the wife drove me to work in my car (97 Celica). She called around 430 saying she's outside waiting. I got out, she starts the car........rather......TRIES to start the car. Doesn't start. Just cranks and cranks and cranks.........sigh

I pop the hood...........no 'big wire disconnected' lol. I take off the airbox cover and smell gas. I'm like 'wtf?'. So I prop open the air box lid, get in and crank it (the ignition!). I see what I guess is fuel mist or something making a big cloud coming out of the airbox. So I stop trying to start it....lol.

Wife left to a seminar, and I was stuck at work.........big time jones session! I left the vehicle sit for like 1/2 hour and tried it again. Nothing. It will 'almost' start, but nothing else.

Any clues what might be the cause? I'm thinking it's NOT the fuel pump since I'm smelling gas. Is there a crank position something or another in this car? Thanx for letting me rant AT!
D'oh...almost forgot. '97 Celica 244k miles.

 

[exdeath]

97 Celica is a 2.2L correct? Coil, cap/rotor, connections to distributor and ignition module, etc. The designs of that engine vary depending on Federal or Canadian or Cali vs other states emission systems. I believe the 5SFE never had a crank position sensor, but a cam position sensor built into the distributor for all versions.

It's turning over and getting fuel, but it's not igniting. It's not just running rough, it's not starting at all on any cylinder = global ignition problem.

Of course now it's flooded and the plugs are soaked, you'll likely have to pull the plugs and dry them out, along with pull the fuel pump relay and crank it over while holding the throttle open to air it out before trying again.

Check for spark once the flood condition is fixed, if you have strong white spark, look to coolant temperature sensor and fuel pressure regulator. Right now it's flooded and fuel fouled and won't start at all. Once that's fixed, you need to determine if the original problem was ignition system malfunction that allowed fuel to accumulate through excessive cranking, or if it was in fact excessive fuel in the first place that is the initial culprit.

 

[mrblotto]

Thx for the reply Ex,
I just called the garage where it was towed and gave them the info since they were closed by the time the tow truck got there. Oh, it's a 1.8L btw. 5SFE sounds familiar too, whatever that means.....lol!

Thx again!

 

[dawp]

is that a timing chain or belt? if it's chain, it might have jumped timing.

 

[bruceb]

I think that motor uses a timing belt. Odds are it has called it quits and that is why it will not start.

 

[mrblotto]

I think that motor uses a timing belt. Odds are it has called it quits and that is why it will not start.

gah! bite your tongue. I hope not.......yes, I do think it's a timing belt rather than chain. I remember getting it replaced a few years back

Edit: My apologies for sounding rudey-pudey. Not my intention bruceb........

 

[dawp]

was it turning over faster than normal? if it was, belt may have broke.

 

[mrblotto]

Just got a call from the garage:
-New Distributor - it's leaking oil 'thru the eye' whatever that is. At least that's what I thought the lady on the phone said.
-New plugs, wires, cap

total: $853

The dist looks to be about $200, and I have no idea how long it would take to replace one.....*shrugs*

Should I just run away screaming? Take it someplace else?

 

[alkemyst]

Why just not get a new radiator with that much work needed? It's just pumping that junk through the whole cooling system and your heater core. Probably going to cause premature wear of the water pump and a heater core problem.

As a delivery vehicle your repairs should be write off more or less.

 

[mrblotto]

The radiator on the Jeep is going to be replaced. That'll run about $100 for a replacement one. The dude seems to be pretty trustworthy and has gone above and beyond during this whole process.

I did call 2 other garages for the Celica (it's at a totally different place in RTP/Durham). Both estimates were in the same ballpark ($775 and $790). So, instead of paying to get it towed, it's gonna stay where it is (like a mile from where I work) and get it done there.

Good call on the write off Alkemyst. Hadn't thought of that. Will check that option out. Thx!

 

[desy]

Might be time to move up on yrs and down on mileage
03 or newer Focus?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Might be time to move up on yrs and down on mileage
03 or newer Focus?

Jump the jeep and get a Ford Transit.

 

[exdeath]

Just got a call from the garage:
-New Distributor - it's leaking oil 'thru the eye' whatever that is. At least that's what I thought the lady on the phone said.
-New plugs, wires, cap

total: $853

The dist looks to be about $200, and I have no idea how long it would take to replace one.....*shrugs*

Should I just run away screaming? Take it someplace else?

1.8? Didn't know that generation Celica had a 1.8, thought it was 2.2L NA or 2.0L turbo.

Sounds like the distributor o ring that seals in the head, and the position pickups and ignition parts got soaked in oil. Pretty common with your mileage. Some brake clean and a new $5 o ring from Toyota should take care of it.

I think you are getting bent over on price though. You wouldn't replace the whole distributor unless the internal shaft seal is leaking, maybe that's what they meant by 'the eye'. It's less than an hour to replace it for someone who's done it before, not sure what the book time is on it. Pull the plug wires and electrical connectors, 2 bolts, pops right out, transfer any goodies (coil, pickups, rotor, etc) to the new one, pop it back in and bolt it down, reconnect everything and put a timing light on it (need a jumper wire to disable electronic advance).

 

[MrWizzard]

I dono if this will make you feel any better but one of my cars, it's time for a major service...It starts at $2800. So it could be worse for you I guess. Excuse me while I take out a second Mortgage.

 

[mrblotto]

I dono if this will make you feel any better but one of my cars, it's time for a major service...It starts at $2800. So it could be worse for you I guess. Excuse me while I take out a second Mortgage.

*goes to get purchase a drink from machine*
*takes first sip*
*spits out liquid all over monitor*

Yikes! You're right. I sometimes forget that old saying 'it could always be worse*

Thank you all for your invaluable input btw!

 

[Zargon]

there cant be that much labor on a dist

 

[angry hampster]

I dono if this will make you feel any better but one of my cars, it's time for a major service...It starts at $2800. So it could be worse for you I guess. Excuse me while I take out a second Mortgage.

What kind of car, what mileage?

 

[HarryLui]

-Radiator, despite 2 'professional flushes' and (1) 3 hour nonprofessional flush by my friend and I, still has tons of rust in it.......sigh. It has overheated and the engine quit.

Waste of time and money.

Cleaned out this radiator using CLR. New radiator is not available, or else I would have bought new.

 

[/b/tard]

Waste of time and money.

Cleaned out this radiator using CLR. New radiator is not available, or else I would have bought new.

CLR is good stuff.. I had some really rusted out parts in my stove that I was repairing and found that the spring clips used inside the burners were no longer available. So I left the spring clips in a solution of CLR and after a few hours, used an old tooth brush and scrubbed them until the rust was gone.. It was amazing, the CLR ONLY took off the rust, leaving the un rusted metal completely preserved. After that I painted the spring clips with high temperature paint and put the parts back together.

I think the most amazing part about CLR was that it removed ONLY the rust and nothing more. Problem with it though is if you leave metals in the solution too long, they turn black.

 

[alkemyst]

A radiator is a relatively simple device. It would be in most peoples interest to replace at that point than try chemical fixes. A radiator usually will end up failing physically (end tanks, etc).

Even if not available new, there should be a compatible unit or a radiator shop could easily put the right mounting points on one.

Just verified this part too: CLR is corrosive to Aluminum. Plastic and aluminum is basically what you get in most radiators today.

 

[desy]

I don't think I'd use CLR, they do sell Rad flush, coincidentally I bought some flushed the rad on the minvan on the wkend but forgot to put it in <oops>

 

[/b/tard]

A radiator is a relatively simple device. It would be in most peoples interest to replace at that point than try chemical fixes. A radiator usually will end up failing physically (end tanks, etc).

Even if not available new, there should be a compatible unit or a radiator shop could easily put the right mounting points on one.

Just verified this part too: CLR is corrosive to Aluminum. Plastic and aluminum is basically what you get in most radiators today.

I thought CLR was muriatic acid but apparently it isn't so it shouldn't affect the aluminum.
here is the MSDS on it:
http://www.jelmar.com/msds/CLR_MSDS_03C0309_3-17-09.pdf

 

[alkemyst]

There are other acids than muriatic....

 

[mrblotto]

Update, just because I have a few mins lol,
Celica is working fine. The Jeep WAS working fine since about Saturday or Sunday (whatever day we picked it up). I get a call from the wife this afternoon. The temp gauge is again climbing beyond the normal range, and when she got out from the grocery store there was a puddle of rad fluid beneath it.......sigh

wtf? The radiator, water pump and thermostat housing have been replaced (old was one cracked/got cracked somehow). The thermostat was NOT replaced, however. I looked at the aftermarket ones, and the 'shoulders', for lack of a better term, stick out a bit further/are rounder than the stock ones. It kinda looks like it wont make a good fit inside the housing. The dude said he'd just 'clean up' the old one.

I checked the level, and had to add a little less than 1/2 gal to the radiator. And I put some in the resevoir as well (between the hot and cold markers).

I'm kind of at a loss. I drove it down to a different garage 'cause I'm not to keen on calling the good ole boy mechanic back. Especially when he kinda asked me if he could borrow some money from me......not cool. at all.

The other dude at the other garage (an actual garage I've been to before) said they'd check it out. I told him what had been replaced and what hadn't. I also mentioned I hadn't seen any milkshake in the oil, and he said they have some sort of 'exhaust test' that measures the amount of coolant in the exhaust *shrugs* just to make sure it's not the head gasket......

I'll get a pic of the water pump that was taken off......it's probably a textbook example of a bad wp....lol

 

[bruceb]

It may be nothing more than a clamp was not properly tightened.