North Korean Cannibals

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actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Genx87 said:
Are you looking for specific examples or do you believe there are no more communist believers in the world anymore?
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Come on. I don't support communism in any way, shape, or form but what you have in North Korea is not communism, but a criminal kleptocracy. People who do support communism (outside of a few deranged idiots im sure) don't support what North Korea is doing any more than you do.

Now I think that the amount of power necessary to set up a communist system inherently opens it to the potential of such abuses, but that is a very different argument than saying people who support communism support this insanity.
 
Texashiker

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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Genx87 said:
And yet today we have useful idiots extolling the virtues of his morally bankrupt ideology.
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The other option is capitalism with its rich get everything and the poor get nothing?

capitalism is not everything its cracked up to be.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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eskimospy said:
Come on. I don't support communism in any way, shape, or form but what you have in North Korea is not communism, but a criminal kleptocracy. People who do support communism (outside of a few deranged idiots im sure) don't support what North Korea is doing any more than you do.

Now I think that the amount of power necessary to set up a communist system inherently opens it to the potential of such abuses, but that is a very different argument than saying people who support communism support this insanity.
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Oh I dont think many would support this stuff. But I dont think it matters when the system they push brings about these types of conditions.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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Texashiker said:
The other option is capitalism with its rich get everything and the poor get nothing?

capitalism is not everything its cracked up to be.
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Do you really believe such a thing? I'd happily be poor in a capitalist economic system than an avg peon in a communist one.
 
Texashiker

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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Genx87 said:
Do you really believe such a thing? I'd happily be poor in a capitalist economic system than an avg peon in a communist one.
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After seeing wages erode for 3 decades, after seeing banks bailed out at tax payers expense, after seeing walmart make welfare part of their benefits package for decades,,,,, yea, I have lost just about all faith in capitalism.

Capitalism is a pyramid scheme that only benefits the people (and companies) on at the top.


nehalem256 said:
Try looking at the poor in say America. Do they look like they have starvation problems?
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We are supposed to have a social safety net for people in need.

But that safety net is not dependent on the form of government we have.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
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Texashiker said:
After seeing wages erode for 3 decades, after seeing banks bailed out at tax payers expense, after seeing walmart make welfare part of their benefits package for decades,,,,, yea, I have lost just about all faith in capitalism.

Capitalism is a pyramid scheme that only benefits the people (and companies) on at the top.
Click to expand...

As opposed to being forced to never leave a state and starve or eat each other in my example?

The issue we face today is crony capitalism, state capitalism, and all that crap. But the underlying issue you are upset about isnt capitalism. It is the state interfering with capitalism and ensuring losers get to win. I can completely understand the complaint. I have the same myself. The difference is I view the state as the enabler and force behind this crap. You want to blame the economic system.


We are supposed to have a social safety net for people in need.

But that safety net is not dependent on the form of government we have.
Click to expand...

We have plenty of safety nets in this country. A country based on capitalist ideals. What safety net did those in my article have when the govt starved them ou?. And terrorized them for the crime of having a food cache to feed their family because the state never believed it could have fucked up the feeding people so bad?
 
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actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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Genx87 said:
Are you looking for specific examples or do you believe there are no more communist believers in the world anymore?
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I don't think there's anyone who believes that they want to give total control to a monarchy, which is what is the case in North Korea.

Blaming the problems in North Korea on communism is no more relevant to any kind of intelligent discussion than blaming the problems in Somalia on capitalism.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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actuarial said:
I don't think there's anyone who believes that they want to give total control to a monarchy, which is what is the case in North Korea.

Blaming the problems in North Korea on communism is no more relevant to any kind of intelligent discussion than blaming the problems in Somalia on capitalism.
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I grow tired of people claiming places like the Soviet Union, China, North Korea or any other totalitarian system setup under communism isnt communism. It is what communism is in the real world.

Somalia may or may not be capitalist. I suspect warlords control the means of production and most of the capital in the nation as somalia is in a state of anarchy. So it is difficult to blame its issues on capitalism and not the political system of anarchy.

Blaming the political and economic system is relevant. The OPs link talks about cannibalism under a communist regime. My link discusses cannibalism under another communist regime. The underlying tie is communism and its mismangement of resources. And outright barbaric treatment of the citizens it rules.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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They should chop up their fat leaders and eat the people in charge.
Cant really say I like cannibalism and any way . . . Yuck!

They have plenty of money to make nuclear weapons.

It is like they have no priorities.

If they reunified Korea they would have all the food they need.
 
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themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
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Doppel said:
Don't look under your bed, I think a monster is under there. I could shred your arguments to tatters without any effort, so it's probably best for your state of mind that you don't respond, as you said.
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What a badass. I bet you could spear a tiger shark with your feet then cook it over a fire you made from rubbing string together. Most interesting man in the world?
 
Doppel

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
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themusgrat said:
What a badass. I bet you could spear a tiger shark with your feet then cook it over a fire you made from rubbing string together. Most interesting man in the world?
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You have a little butthurt right there on your collar.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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The area around North Korea has never really been that fertile. A lot of it is mountains and plains hardly suitable for cattle or horses. However parts of it would be excellent for building factories or maybe raising some cattle or pigs. If it was industrialized, then they could make products usable in the south and in exchange they could make money to buy food. Even in times of old they use to earn a living in trading to get the food they needed.
 
Gunslinger08

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Do you think that we will see a unified Korea in our lifetimes? Either voluntarily (because the people are starving/revolting) or through external force (due to a counterattack). I don't really see either happening. I think that the leadership is a little too smart for either to happen. The people are too scared and/or brainwashed to revolt. The leadership likes to rattle their sabers about international attacks/war, but they must understand it would be an utter failure if they started an actual modern war.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,149
48,233
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Genx87 said:
As opposed to being forced to never leave a state and starve or eat each other in my example?

The issue we face today is crony capitalism, state capitalism, and all that crap. But the underlying issue you are upset about isnt capitalism. It is the state interfering with capitalism and ensuring losers get to win. I can completely understand the complaint. I have the same myself. The difference is I view the state as the enabler and force behind this crap. You want to blame the economic system.




We have plenty of safety nets in this country. A country based on capitalist ideals. What safety net did those in my article have when the govt starved them ou?. And terrorized them for the crime of having a food cache to feed their family because the state never believed it could have fucked up the feeding people so bad?
Click to expand...

I think we both agree that communism is a monstrous system of governance in the real world. (or at least in all the cases it has been tried). We aren't a capitalist country either though, we are a mixed, partially socialist, partially capitalistic society.

Under pure capitalism I imagine you would find plenty of cannibals as well.
 
Doppel

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
joshsquall said:
Do you think that we will see a unified Korea in our lifetimes? Either voluntarily (because the people are starving/revolting) or through external force (due to a counterattack). I don't really see either happening. I think that the leadership is a little too smart for either to happen. The people are too scared and/or brainwashed to revolt. The leadership likes to rattle their sabers about international attacks/war, but they must understand it would be an utter failure if they started an actual modern war.
Click to expand...
Of course they do, absolutely. It is also a key reason why their nascent nuclear program poses no threat to anybody (including South Korea) for the foreseeable future.
 
A

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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Genx87 said:
I grow tired of people claiming places like the Soviet Union, China, North Korea or any other totalitarian system setup under communism isnt communism. It is what communism is in the real world.
Click to expand...

I grow tired of straw men, but they don't go away. I didn't say it isn't communism, I said that communism isn't the root cause. Certainly China no longer has cannibals.

Genx87 said:
Somalia may or may not be capitalist. I suspect warlords control the means of production and most of the capital in the nation as somalia is in a state of anarchy. So it is difficult to blame its issues on capitalism and not the political system of anarchy.

Blaming the political and economic system is relevant. The OPs link talks about cannibalism under a communist regime. My link discusses cannibalism under another communist regime. The underlying tie is communism and its mismangement of resources. And outright barbaric treatment of the citizens it rules.
Click to expand...

The underlying tie is a dictatorship. I think communism is more likely to lead to a dictatorship, but of all the people I have seen on this form or met in real life who 'extol the virtues of communism', I haven't heard a single person talk about scrapping democracy.

What I do see is people who are identified by others as supporting communism when really all they are advocating is a little more socialism.

I'd be interest to hear if you think anyone on this forum 'extols the virtues of communism'.
 
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