North Korea: Sanctions are a declaration of war.

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
This could be the UN's biggest day. Get the food shipments ready and offer the N.Korean army food for their surrender.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
81
Originally posted by: Vicken
North Korea's Kim Jong Il threatens war if any sanctions are brought on the country following its rocket launch is a declaration of war. Note, that Japan has already tightened sanctions. Is this a bluff? Or does he really mean it this time?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/...ml?eref=rss_topstories

Hes like a spoiled rotten little kid that needs to be taken out back to the woodshed and spanked until his ass cheeks bleed.

 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Does anyone really believe the North Korean Army can/will fight for this idiot. Although east Asian, I think they'll surrender quickly.
 

JohnnyGage

Senior member
Feb 18, 2008
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Originally posted by: Dari
Does anyone really believe the North Korean Army can/will fight for this idiot. Although east Asian, I think they'll surrender quickly.

You are probably correct. We could just entice them with food and remove the requirement of saying 'Dear Leader' in every sentence.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,368
45,801
136
Open up some all you can eat buffets on the SK side of the DMZ and watch the North Korean army fold like a cheap suit.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
NK doesnt even have the ability to project its power anywhere militarily.

It would be suicide to declare war on a nation that didnt directly border them.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
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Originally posted by: Wheezer
Originally posted by: Vicken
North Korea's Kim Jong Il threatens war if any sanctions are brought on the country following its rocket launch is a declaration of war. Note, that Japan has already tightened sanctions. Is this a bluff? Or does he really mean it this time?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/...ml?eref=rss_topstories

Hes like a spoiled rotten little kid that needs to be taken out back to the woodshed and spanked until his ass cheeks bleed.

Yeah, but that would constitute torture ;) We need diplomacy!
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
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Soul, SK's capital of 10 million people has a massive amount of NK artillery pointed at it (well within range). Unless there is a preemptive strike to take out the artillery, a war would mean hundreds of thousands of civilians deaths.

But aside from this deterrent, NK doesn't have a chance in hell against SK unless China steps in, which I highly doubt despite past involvement.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
Threaten all they want! No one is listening. If they did try a war hopefully the UN and the rest of the world will pony up and help fight unlike what fucking idiot bush did and let america take it on 95% in the ass...

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Soul, SK's capital of 10 million people has a massive amount of NK artillery pointed at it (well within range). Unless there is a preemptive strike to take out the artillery, a war would mean hundreds of thousands of civilians deaths.

But aside from this deterrent, NK doesn't have a chance in hell against SK unless China steps in, which I highly doubt despite past involvement.

This. Kim is an attention whore who loves sabre rattling.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Soul, SK's capital of 10 million people has a massive amount of NK artillery pointed at it (well within range). Unless there is a preemptive strike to take out the artillery, a war would mean hundreds of thousands of civilians deaths.

But aside from this deterrent, NK doesn't have a chance in hell against SK unless China steps in, which I highly doubt despite past involvement.

This. Kim is an attention whore who loves sabre rattling.

Having the real capacity to flatten Seoul kind of puts a kink on SKs ability to wage war. I don't see NK being allowed to capture SK at all. They'll be destroyed in short order but they could do an incredible amount of damage in the mean time.

If the powers that be are smart, they'll use every resource to determine if the NK nutjob really goes off the deep end then we blow up every place he could hide.

Go in, wipe out the power structure, take all nuclear material. Smash anything resembling a threat and leave. No rebuilding. Just go.

 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
South Korea will fold. They always fold and never call NK's bluff. Next NK will demand lots of free food and money and SK will bend over and pay.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Soul, SK's capital of 10 million people has a massive amount of NK artillery pointed at it (well within range). Unless there is a preemptive strike to take out the artillery, a war would mean hundreds of thousands of civilians deaths.

But aside from this deterrent, NK doesn't have a chance in hell against SK unless China steps in, which I highly doubt despite past involvement.

This. Kim is an attention whore who loves sabre rattling.

Having the real capacity to flatten Seoul kind of puts a kink on SKs ability to wage war. I don't see NK being allowed to capture SK at all. They'll be destroyed in short order but they could do an incredible amount of damage in the mean time.

If the powers that be are smart, they'll use every resource to determine if the NK nutjob really goes off the deep end then we blow up every place he could hide.

Go in, wipe out the power structure, take all nuclear material. Smash anything resembling a threat and leave. No rebuilding. Just go.

Well, as crazy as Kim is, I dont think he's suicidal. So I dont see anything happening to provoke the west.

As far as going in and tearing it down from the inside, that would be a monumental task. The fact is, we just dont know whats inside. dont know if you saw the undercver documentary by Lisa Ling, but she made a point most of the people in NK dont even know the moon has been landed on. NK is so locked up it would take generations to undo. We just dont know where to go once inside. Unless, of course, we strafe the entire country. Which wont happen.
 

Tab3076

Member
Mar 26, 2009
66
0
0
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Soul, SK's capital of 10 million people has a massive amount of NK artillery pointed at it (well within range). Unless there is a preemptive strike to take out the artillery, a war would mean hundreds of thousands of civilians deaths.

But aside from this deterrent, NK doesn't have a chance in hell against SK unless China steps in, which I highly doubt despite past involvement.

This. Kim is an attention whore who loves sabre rattling.

Having the real capacity to flatten Seoul kind of puts a kink on SKs ability to wage war. I don't see NK being allowed to capture SK at all. They'll be destroyed in short order but they could do an incredible amount of damage in the mean time.

If the powers that be are smart, they'll use every resource to determine if the NK nutjob really goes off the deep end then we blow up every place he could hide.

Go in, wipe out the power structure, take all nuclear material. Smash anything resembling a threat and leave. No rebuilding. Just go.

Seconded. If war does happen we'll win but in war no one really wins.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
War would turn South Korea into a mess

Do you really want that?
They have great technology there :(
 

AFMatt

Senior member
Aug 14, 2008
248
0
0
"This is like deja vu all over again." Kim Jong Il made the same statement a few years ago when they performed a nuclear test. The UN went ahead with sanctions anyway, and a few days later he says he regrets the test, doesn't want us or anyone else to impose economic sanctions, and they re-enter the 6-party talks.

Maybe one of these days the UN will impose some real sanctions that actually stick.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
Here we go again.... NK simply wants attention and concessions (food,oil,etc.). I don't think that KJI is dumb, so he has to know what will happen if he tries to go all out and take SK. He could take significant portions on the ground, maybe even holding it for a while, but the rest of the world would not stand idly by and let that happen again. The first shell fired in anger towards a target in SK will signal the end of NK for good. Let 'em remove sanctions. They'll bitch and test some more nukes/rockets but that'll be the extent of it.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
These six party talks are useless. We should just ignore NK and put pressure on its clients, namely Iran, Pakistan and Syria.
 

aphex

Moderator<br>All Things Apple
Moderator
Jul 19, 2001
38,572
2
91
Other than a million man army, do they actually have any military infrastructure? Warships? Planes?

I'm asking seriously, I have no idea.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: aphex
Other than a million man army, do they actually have any military infrastructure? Warships? Planes?

I'm asking seriously, I have no idea.

Yes.

Annual military expenditure is US$6 billion across the armed forces including expenditure on missiles. US research organization ISIS reports DPRK may have three nuclear missile warheads

North Korea is the most militarised country in the world today[1], having the fourth largest standing army in the world, at an estimated 1.1 million armed personnel, with about 20% of men ages 17-54 in the regular armed forces.[2] It also has the Worker-Peasant Red Guard, a reserve force comprising 3.5m+ (IISS), 3.8m (USMC) or 4.7m (State Department) militia. It operates an enormous network of military facilities scattered around the country, a large weapons production basis, and an extremely dense air defence system.

The KPA ground forces are by far the largest component of the DPRK's military. As at 2001 the army was composed of approximately 1,003,000 personnel organised into 20 corps consisting of 176 divisions and brigades. The army is equipped with very large numbers of artillery and armoured fighting vehicles and approximately 70 percent of active units are based near the border with South Korea. The KPA also has a powerful special operations force comprising over 90,000 personnel.[5]

Until 1986 most sources claimed the army had two armored divisions.[6] These divisions disappeared from the order of battle and were replaced by the armored corps and a doubling of the armored brigade count. In the mid-1980s, the heavy caliber self propelled artillery was consolidated into the first multibrigade artillery corps. At the same time, the restructured mobile exploitation forces were redeployed forward, closer to the DMZ. The forward corps areas of operation were compressed although their internal organization appeared to remain basically the same. The deployment of the newly formed mechanized, armored, and artillery corps directly behind the first echelon conventional forces provides a potent exploitation force that did not exist prior to 1980.

As of 1992, the army was composed of sixteen corps commands, two separate special operations forces commands, and nine military district commands (or regions) under the control of the Ministry of the People's Armed Forces. Most sources agreed that the DPRK's ground forces consisted of approximately 145 divisions and brigades, of which approximately 120 are active. There is less agreement, however, on the breakdown of the forces.

As of 1996, major combat units consisted of 153 divisions and brigades, including 60 infantry divisions/brigades, 25 mechanized infantry brigades, 13 tank brigades, 25 Special Operation Force (SOF) brigades and 30 artillery brigades.[7] North Korea deployed ten corps including sixty divisions and brigades in the forward area south of the Pyongyang-Wonsan line.

Beginning in the late 1970s, after South Korea received new technologies and equipment from the United States,[8][9] the DPRK began a major reorganization and modernization of its ground forces. The DPRK began to produce a modified version of the 115 mm gunned T-62 tank, which was the Soviet army's main battle tank in the 1960s. Based on general trends and photography of armed forces parades, it is clear that the DPRK has made considerable modifications to the basic Soviet and Chinese designs in its own production.

In the 1980s, in order to make the army more mobile and mechanized, there was a steady influx of new tanks, self propelled artillery, armored personnel carriers (APCs), and trucks. The ground forces seldom retire old models of weapons and tend to maintain a large equipment stock, keeping old models along with upgraded ones in the active force or in reserve. The army remains largely an infantry force, although a decade-long modernization program has significantly improved the mobility and firepower of its active forces.

Between 1980 and 1992, the DPRK reorganized, reequipped, and forward deployed the majority of its ground forces. The army places great emphasis on special operations and has the 2nd largest special operations forces in the world ? tailored to meet the distinct requirements of mountainous Korean terrain. Between 1984 and 1992, the army added about 1,000 tanks, over 2,500 APC/infantry fighting vehicles (IFV), and about 6,000 artillery tubes or rocket launchers. In 1992 North Korea had about twice the advantage in numbers of tanks and artillery, and a 1.5-to-1 advantage in personnel over its potential adversaries, the United States-Republic of Korea defenses to the south (though it must be pointed out that most of this equipment is obsolete compared to that of the South Korean military). Over 60 percent of the army was located within 100 kilometers of the DMZ in mid-1993.

The Korean People's Naval Command - more commonly known as the Korean People's Navy (KPN) - is a green-water navy and operates mainly within the 50 kilometer exclusion zone. The KPN is the lowest priority military service and most of its equipment is obsolete. As at 2007 the KPN comprised 46,000 personnel and operated 704 ships and landing and infiltration craft. The navy also operates a large number of coastal defence units which are equipped with artillery and surface-to-surface missiles.[10]

The KPN is organised into two fleets which are not able to support each other. The East Fleet is headquartered at T'oejo-dong and the West Fleet at Nampho. A number of training, ship building and maintenance units and a naval aviation battalion report directly to Naval Command Headquarters at Pyongyang.[11] The majority of the navy's ships are assigned to the East Fleet. Due to the short range of most ships the two fleets are not known to have ever conducted joint operations or have shared vessels.[

The Korean People's Air and Air Defence Command, better known as the Korean People's Air Force (KPAF), is primarily an air defence force, with limited offensive capability. As at 2007 it comprised 110,000 personnel and between 1,600 and 1,700 aircraft. The KPAF also operates a very large air defence network of radar and anti-aircraft sites. Most of the KPAF's aircraft and surface to air missiles are obsolete and the force's pilots conduct little flight training.[13]

The KPAF is organised into six Air Divisions, four of which have air defense responsibilities and two of which provide air transport. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Air Divisions operate combat aircraft and are responsible for the defence of the north-western, eastern and southern sections of the country respectively. The 8th Air Division operates training aircraft and is responsible for the defence of the north-eastern section of the DPRK. The 5th and 6th Air Divisions operate transport aircraft. Air Koryo, the DPRK's civil airline, also comes under the control of the KPAF through the Civil Aviation Bureau.[14] The KPAF operates from 89 bases, including 18 highway strips and 20 helipads. Most of the force's air bases are 'hardened' against attack, with many having large underground components. Some of the primary air bases have underground runways from which aircraft can be directly launched

The Artillery guidance bureau (AGB) is the strategic missile forces of the Korean People's Army. It is equipped mainly with Scud-derived localy produced ballistic missiles with varying range, payload and accuracy. Some of them, such as the Hwasong-5 and Hwasong-6 are land-mobile, while others, such as the Rodong-2 and Taepodong-1 require launch pads. North Korea currently develops a new ICBM - the Taepodong-2, which was tested in 2006 but failed. Its shooting range is estimated to be about 6,700 km or more. Currently deployed missiles have a range of up to 2,000 km. The exact number of deployed missiles of all types is unknown, but it is generally accepted there are some 600 Hwasong-6 and 200 Rodong-1 in service, as well as other shorter-range missiles. Major military launch pads are Musudan-ri on the country's east coast, and Pongdong-ri, which is under construction. Smaller launch pads are scattered around the country.

 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: aphex
Other than a million man army, do they actually have any military infrastructure? Warships? Planes?

I'm asking seriously, I have no idea.

Nope, just muscle and missiles.