North Korea offers to end Nuke eapons programs.

[maluckey]

North Korea has just announced that it wishes to end nuke programs in an effort to be removed from US list of states sponsoring terrorists. North Korea also wants China, Russia, and the US to return to talks concerning safety and trade (seemingly as a condition).

Sounds good. Yet another rogue nation caving to pressure, without a shot fired. Sure it's probably more about money than fear of invasion, but the resolve of the U.S. has been tested, and combat proven, and that has to have an effect on the mindset of the rogues gallery.

 

[Skyline622]

I dont trust the Kim Il Sung at all.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Skyline622
I dont trust the Kim Il Sung at all.

Kim Il Sung is dead. We are dealing with Kim Jong Il.

 

[kage69]

...let's see if this doesn't degrade into another NK extortion attempt like it has so often in the past.

 

[maluckey]

It did seem that they want something. If the something is trade normalization, then it's in the bag. If it's a treaty of non-aggression, then it likely will be no deal....again.

If they concede, then we should offer to dismantle the program free of charge, like in Libya. This way any objection would indicate that they intended to cheat on the agreement, and all deals would be off.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well...


This offer or one very much like it has been extended before. Recall that they also announced that they have finished processing spent fuel rods. What they are offering is to not make more nukes in exchange for certain guarantees. According to this article no offer of dismantling actual arms has been made.

 

[Czar]

why is the US so reluctant to sign a non aggression pact with NK if they stop all asperations of wmd making?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Well...


This offer or one very much like it has been extended before. Recall that they also announced that they have finished processing spent fuel rods. What they are offering is to not make more nukes in exchange for certain guarantees. According to this article no offer of dismantling actual arms has been made.

ah, ok

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Czar
why is the US so reluctant to sign a non aggression pact with NK if they stop all asperations of wmd making?

North Korea would stop testing and producing nuclear weapons, as well as cease operating its nuclear power industry,

They will not get rid of what they may have. They will not stop trying to sell them to others.

in other words:

another RFB request for bribe

 

[kage69]

Wouldn't you be reluctant to engage in a binding agreement with a 2nd party who has continually demonstrated that it can't be trusted? Also, NK has a tradition of announcing one thing, waiting till it's been on the table for awhile, and then adding last minute demands which normally bust everything back to square one.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Czar
why is the US so reluctant to sign a non aggression pact with NK if they stop all asperations of wmd making?

A few things off the top of my head...

First, NK had such a thing before, and while under a certain grace if you will, forged ahead with their program. They have not demonstrated the slightest degree of honesty. The US is concerned that this could happen again.

Second, the US wants NK disarmed (and considering their leader is many times more of a threat than Saddam ever was I agree). What could accomplish this? Not much. Armed conflict may leave millions dead. Giving assurances of safety gives them what they want, but gives us nothing.

There is a game being played you do not see. We are talking to them and they to us. Those back channels are where the real interesting stuff is going on.

Like the Cuban missle crisis, there is a situation where both sides feel they cannot back down, but privately both sides are sweating bullets, or ought to be. This continued uncertainty of NK, not knowing if it will be attacked, is a tool to use against them.

 

[FrodoB]

I don't trust that government. That evil government should remain on the "list" until they give their people a real voice and dismantle the sick political prisoners camps in addition to the termination of all wmd programs.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: FrodoB
I don't trust that government. That evil government should remain on the "list" until they give their people a real voice and dismantle the sick political prisoners camps in addition to the termination of all wmd programs.

That is the other side of the coin. There should never have been a list. When you do such a thing, it limits your options.

For example, Iran was reaching out towards us after 9/11. What was a pivotal moment was wasted. We could have reached out to people in earnest, and made the attempt at peace in good faith. Instead, we slapped them away, and caused the moderates in those countries to lose face against our own opponents. Not wise.

In diplomacy, you never paint yourself into a corner like Bush did. You do what you have to, but keep your big mouth shut.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Czar
why is the US so reluctant to sign a non aggression pact with NK if they stop all asperations of wmd making?

Czar, I'm shocked that you would ask such a question considering that you read from so many news outlets. Could it be that they're all leftist and sympathize with North Korea, especially when dealing with the United States?

As others have answered here, the answer is that they are after bribes. If anything, they'll just suspend their nuclear program and reactivate it should they need more money in the future. Clinton played this game with them. Bush isn't. Bush has played hardball and time is on his side. North Korea is starving and wants to be a part of the family of nations. But its threats and grand-standings are unacceptable for a civilized nation. It must change its ways before it is ever accepted. That includes dismantling its weapons program and opening it's economy.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Czar
why is the US so reluctant to sign a non aggression pact with NK if they stop all asperations of wmd making?

history isn't on their side. pattern of behavior is damning

good faith only works if both parties can be trusted.

its amazing the worlds been so quiet while a dictator starves his people to death. a million dead so far from estimates.


Sir Winston Churchill

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: FrodoB
I don't trust that government. That evil government should remain on the "list" until they give their people a real voice and dismantle the sick political prisoners camps in addition to the termination of all wmd programs.

That is the other side of the coin. There should never have been a list. When you do such a thing, it limits your options.

For example, Iran was reaching out towards us after 9/11. What was a pivotal moment was wasted. We could have reached out to people in earnest, and made the attempt at peace in good faith. Instead, we slapped them away, and caused the moderates in those countries to lose face against our own opponents. Not wise.

In diplomacy, you never paint yourself into a corner like Bush did. You do what you have to, but keep your big mouth shut.

The people of Iran dont hate the US. The muslim rulers do. The majority of Iranians are under 23, and they dont feel the same as their rulers.

 

[maluckey]

Behind the scenes in N.K..............Will the US attack? Gosh I hope not! I don't have an escape plan and couln't take life in a hole in the basement. Fox news did a piece about Clinton wanting to attack in 1996, but international support wasn't with him....Hmmmnnn Russia isn't happy, China isn't happy, and the U.S. has taken away two countries already. Maybe I'll say they can inspect, and then when it suits me throw the inspectors out, and gain 12 years to think out another plan, like Saddam had????? Hmmmnnnn...... Maybe Dean will get elected, he HATES U.S. military intervention! He won't invade!!! Clark however, already proved in Kosovo that he could bomb us into the next century, and so might Kerry........

It would be real interesting to do a reality T.V. show in NK concerning high level ministers. The hand wringing would appeal to viewers worldwide.