North Korea keeps amazing me.

[etech]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: BooGiMaN
They are basically telling the USA to kiss their ass when it comes to talks and halting their nuclear weapons research.
Those guys must have balls of titanium.

No, but they have balls of uranium, which makes them think they can take this arrogant tone with the US.

What is it really going to get them though. A weapon is no real threat unless the other side believes it will be used. If N.Korea uses nukes they will functionally cease to exist and they know it. They are just playing a little game of backmail. I haven't seen that it has really gotten them anything. I don't think they will gain much if anything out of it.

They could have worked on the sunshine policy with S. Korea, fed their people and moved forward. Instead they pull this little stunt. It is only going to hurt them in the end.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Ok color me ignorant, but Ive been trying to figure it out for a while.

What is North Korea's beef with the US?

Somehow he's got the crazy idea that he's part of some Axis of Evil and that President Bush might do to him what he plans to do to Iraq. Silly guy. Methinks he might actually follow through on some of his threats at this point.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: BD2003 Ok color me ignorant, but Ive been trying to figure it out for a while. What is North Korea's beef with the US?

Somehow he's got the crazy idea that he's part of some Axis of Evil and that President Bush might do to him what he plans to do to Iraq. Silly guy. Methinks he might actually follow through on some of his threats at this point.

Well, yeah, if I were them, I would assume that I was going to be attacked. Nevertheless, they cant win a war against the US, so it would be best to stall with negogiation and hope for the best.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: BD2003
Ok color me ignorant, but Ive been trying to figure it out for a while.

What is North Korea's beef with the US?

Somehow he's got the crazy idea that he's part of some Axis of Evil and that President Bush might do to him what he plans to do to Iraq. Silly guy. Methinks he might actually follow through on some of his threats at this point.

What ever could of given him that idea? hmmmm

Death, terror in N. Korea gulag

Breaking the 1994 treaty.

Testimonies of N. Korea defectors
Kim Jong-il has expressed worries about the international community raising human rights as an issue in addition to concerns over nuclear and chemical weapons. Its human rights law is a merely formalistic document without substance, and it is safe to assume that human rights are non-existent in the country.

North Korea

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: BD2003
Ok color me ignorant, but Ive been trying to figure it out for a while.

What is North Korea's beef with the US?

Somehow he's got the crazy idea that he's part of some Axis of Evil and that President Bush might do to him what he plans to do to Iraq. Silly guy. Methinks he might actually follow through on some of his threats at this point.

What ever could of given him that idea? hmmmm

Death, terror in N. Korea gulag

Breaking the 1994 treaty.

Testimonies of N. Korea defectors
Kim Jong-il has expressed worries about the international community raising human rights as an issue in addition to concerns over nuclear and chemical weapons. Its human rights law is a merely formalistic document without substance, and it is safe to assume that human rights are non-existent in the country.

North Korea

Sounds like a hornet's nest that I'd want to be careful of, that is, not walking over and giving it a big kick, eh?

 

[etech]

Sounds like a hornet's nest that I'd want to be careful of, that is, not walking over and giving it a big kick, eh?

If you are such a pussy that you don't care about the people there and only want to make your political point that you hate the President of the United States then sure, I understand why you would not do anything.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Children, children, please. North Korea has been doing this since the "end" of the Korean War. Nothing is new in their attitude or actions. As far as the current situation goes, Bush has plenty of room to appease them until we finish with Iraq. Then he can deal with them. The true solution to this current "crisis" is not what the U.S. will do, but what the Chinese will do. You are young and impatient for everything to happen right now. Have patience, everything will work out just fine. Now, drink your warm milk and go to bed.

Have to disagree somewhat HP. Yes, NK has always been aggressive, however I do not recall them having telling the IAEC to shove it so they could start a full blown nuke program, and I dont see that they are faking it. The US is willing to talk, but they do not seem to be willing to take a bribe, at least yet. I agree that China is a great unknown, and I am not personally worried over my safety since you are thousands of miles closer to them than me

China is the wild card in the situation. If NK uses a nuke against SK or Japan, it's all over and I don't believe China wants a nuclear war on its border with the ensuing U.S./SK takeover and occupation of the country.

If NK launches an invasion of SK it would take the U.S. awhile to bring its manpower, equipment and technology to bear, but the end result would be inevitable. NK would be invaded by ground forces. In that case China, who doesn't want a western democracy on their border, would have to decide whether to throw their ground forces into the fray, like they did during the KW, or to let us occupy NK. Again, they don't want us there and they don't want a united democratic Korea.

This is why I believe that China will eventually put a muzzle on Kim.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: etech

Sounds like a hornet's nest that I'd want to be careful of, that is, not walking over and giving it a big kick, eh?

If you are such a pussy that you don't care about the people there and only want to make your political point that you hate the President of the United States then sure, I understand why you would not do anything.

There is doing something constructively, then there's the American approach.

Hey, you guys go ahead and provoke someone into tossing a few nukes around, I'm moving to Nunavut.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Children, children, please. North Korea has been doing this since the "end" of the Korean War. Nothing is new in their attitude or actions. As far as the current situation goes, Bush has plenty of room to appease them until we finish with Iraq. Then he can deal with them. The true solution to this current "crisis" is not what the U.S. will do, but what the Chinese will do. You are young and impatient for everything to happen right now. Have patience, everything will work out just fine. Now, drink your warm milk and go to bed.

Have to disagree somewhat HP. Yes, NK has always been aggressive, however I do not recall them having telling the IAEC to shove it so they could start a full blown nuke program, and I dont see that they are faking it. The US is willing to talk, but they do not seem to be willing to take a bribe, at least yet. I agree that China is a great unknown, and I am not personally worried over my safety since you are thousands of miles closer to them than me

China is the wild card in the situation. If NK uses a nuke against SK or Japan, it's all over and I don't believe China wants a nuclear war on its border with the ensuing U.S./SK takeover and occupation of the country.

If NK launches an invasion of SK it would take the U.S. awhile to bring its manpower, equipment and technology to bear, but the end result would be inevitable. NK would be invaded by ground forces. In that case China, who doesn't want a western democracy on their border, would have to decide whether to throw their ground forces into the fray, like they did during the KW, or to let us occupy NK. Again, they don't want us there and they don't want a united democratic Korea.

This is why I believe that China will eventually put a muzzle on Kim.

Hope your right, but they're not doing a good job of it so far.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Children, children, please. North Korea has been doing this since the "end" of the Korean War. Nothing is new in their attitude or actions. As far as the current situation goes, Bush has plenty of room to appease them until we finish with Iraq. Then he can deal with them. The true solution to this current "crisis" is not what the U.S. will do, but what the Chinese will do. You are young and impatient for everything to happen right now. Have patience, everything will work out just fine. Now, drink your warm milk and go to bed.

Have to disagree somewhat HP. Yes, NK has always been aggressive, however I do not recall them having telling the IAEC to shove it so they could start a full blown nuke program, and I dont see that they are faking it. The US is willing to talk, but they do not seem to be willing to take a bribe, at least yet. I agree that China is a great unknown, and I am not personally worried over my safety since you are thousands of miles closer to them than me

China is the wild card in the situation. If NK uses a nuke against SK or Japan, it's all over and I don't believe China wants a nuclear war on its border with the ensuing U.S./SK takeover and occupation of the country.

If NK launches an invasion of SK it would take the U.S. awhile to bring its manpower, equipment and technology to bear, but the end result would be inevitable. NK would be invaded by ground forces. In that case China, who doesn't want a western democracy on their border, would have to decide whether to throw their ground forces into the fray, like they did during the KW, or to let us occupy NK. Again, they don't want us there and they don't want a united democratic Korea.

This is why I believe that China will eventually put a muzzle on Kim.

Hope your right, but they're not doing a good job of it so far.

Red China doesn't have a free press that can report everything their government is doing. Admittedly it's only my belief, but I would be very surprised if there aren't some very serious talks going on between NK and China at this very moment. China has much to lose if the current situation escalates into a full blown war.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: BD2003
Ok color me ignorant, but Ive been trying to figure it out for a while.

What is North Korea's beef with the US?

Somehow he's got the crazy idea that he's part of some Axis of Evil and that President Bush might do to him what he plans to do to Iraq. Silly guy. Methinks he might actually follow through on some of his threats at this point.

So, what was his 'beef' in '94 when war between the US and N.K. was VERY close and N.K. was threatening to turn Seoul into a 'lake of fire'?

 

[Tripleshot]

After seeing this on the front page of MSNBC, and reading that Bush has had emperical knowledge of these atrocities, I am wondering why we are even positioning our troops in the middle east when these slime balls in NK are doing THIS to their citizens.

I sincerely hope that the world community, via UN if possible, unites in support of bringing these SOB's down and liberating the North Koreans from this tyranny.

We may have to fight a war in two areas of the globe at the same time. Reinstitute the draft, for women and men 18 to 40. Lets clean this world up of the mess these despots have made of it, in the name of humanity.

This is on the order of gulags and Hitler extremism. It must stop. We can do something about it.
And we should!

 

[chuckieland]

Originally posted by: Aceshigh
I read somewhere that North Korea has a military of about 1.1 million. That is roughly equivialent to our own without the National Guard, etc. Of course our military is vastly superior in terms of training and technology, but some people estimate that were NK to launch an attack, they could kill 1 million people in Seoul within 24 hours. That is why we are a helluva lot more accepting of their posturing than we are of Iraq's.

U.S has way better weapons, but in turn of superior training, NK got this one
they have the best man training army in the world.
think of this way, they are train since they are young children.
NK force is way stronger then Iraq

 

[JellyBaby]

Tripleshot, with a R president you will not see the U.S. voluntarily enter conflicts having no vital strategic American interests especially against enemies who can hurt us.

NK needs to get out of the 50s. All it need do is look north to China. Bush 1.0 "engaged China", Clinton continued it (and went overboard *cough* missile tech and supercomputers *cough* in some areas). Now we're generally trading peacefully with those enredenned commies.

Of course NK has few if any markets U.S. corporations might be interested in....hmmmm...back in the box I guess.

 

[Tripleshot]

>>>Of course NK has few if any markets U.S. corporations might be interested in....hmmmm...back in the box I guess. <<<<


Bush let them out of the box with his "Axis of Evil" speech.


The genie is out of the bottle. We can do what needs to be done, of that I have no doubt, and Joe Biden, a dem on the foriegn relations comittee in congress, feels much like I do. He may run against Bush in 04,and if so, andshould he win, much of what Bush has started, he would finish, atleast as far as this war aon terrorism goes. If not and Bush is re elected, we better get the job finished.

Today, we are in a panic about bubonic plague viles "stolen" in Texas. our reatyion to this fear is getting to be a pain in the ass. I want to see us back on track getting after these terrorists and their supporters. NK qualifies. So does Iraq. So does Saudi Arabia. I can only hope CIA and other clandestine ops are doing the job behind the scenes. If we are not lazer focused, my grandchildren will be speaking arabic and bowing to Mecca 4 times a day. That is an intolerable thought. I want us to succeed at what we do best, and that miltarily is blowing the hell out of unholy places. Then we can give the people we liberate a crack at freedom and the persuit of happiness that we enjoy.

 

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
It does seem that they are determined to start a military conflict with the US. Apparently they want the US to draw first blood. The question is will we do it.

HAHAHAHA oh how wrong you are.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Dacalo

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider It does seem that they are determined to start a military conflict with the US. Apparently they want the US to draw first blood. The question is will we do it.

HAHAHAHA oh how wrong you are.

Why dont you enlighten us?

 

[HamSupLo]

Originally posted by: yllus
You guys really think they're stupid? I think it's the most brilliant bit of gunboat diplomacy I've ever seen in my life. They're blackmailing the world's only superpower, and doing it damn well. Hold on, let me post a bit from an editorial I read in my morning paper the other day.

In one respect, this surprise is, in fact, justified. Not about North Korea's reaction, but about the skill of its reaction.

For more than a week, North Korea has been engaged in a diplomatic exercise of extraordinary subtlety and daring. In full view of the international community, this small, backward Third World state has been blackmailing the world's superpower. Moreover, it's not only getting away with this ? Bush not only has toned down his rhetoric but now says, almost pleadingly, "We have no intention of invading North Korea" ? but is inching toward its objective.

That objective, to repeat, is the simple one of regime survival. North Korea wants a non-aggression pact with the United States. To get it, it will have to give up its nuclear program.

But ? and here's the skill in the exercise in blackmail ? in order to be able to give up its nuclear weapons program, North Korea first had to restart that program, no matter the cost to its people and industries through cutbacks to the food and oil supplies going to the country under its old non-nuclear Framework Agreement with the U.S.

At present, this diplomatic duet seems stalemated. The U.S. won't talk to North Korea until it stops its nuclear program. North Korea won't stop its program until the U.S. starts to talk to it.

Enter South Korea. (Enter also China, Russia, Japan, all eager to keep the region nuclear-free.) South Korea is touting a compromise by which Bush would write a letter to Kim promising no military action while at the same time North Korea stops reactivating its plutonium supplies and allows international inspectors to return to the country.

Something like this is virtually certain to happen, although, to save Washington's face, North Korea will first have to stop its nuclear program and only then, but by pre-arrangement, will come the reassuring letter.

From halfway around the world, Iraq's Saddam Hussein must be watching with amazement and with deep envy. His shortcomings, though, are self-evident. He has no weapons of mass destruction (or none for practical purposes) so he cannot deter an attack. He has oil, so an attack on him will be profitable.

There is one other critical difference between Iraq and North Korea.

Kim may well be crazy. But he's crazy like a fox. As cult leaders often are.

TheStar.com - North Korea leader crazy like a fox

That's a good point right there. The North Koreans are playing one helluva game of diplomacy. International relations is cool in a way where one party tries to scratch out every little bit of advantage they can get. Like a game of poker...do we know whose bluffing? Right now Kim has Bush over a barrel.