North Korea fires off two test missiles

[Modelworks]

Is North Korea trying really hard to provoke the world into taking action ?
Yesterday we get a nuke test, today we get testing of missiles.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...d7DCiYFc&refer=germany

May 26 (Bloomberg) -- North Korea fired two short-range missiles off its eastern coast, Yonhap News reported, a day after a nuclear test and similar missile launches drew international condemnation.

Kim Jong Il?s government test-fired two missiles with a 130-kilometer (81-mile) range from Hamheung, South Hamgyong province, into the sea, Yonhap said, citing a government official it didn?t identify. South Korea?s Joint Chiefs of Staff is attempting to verify the information, an official said on condition of anonymity.

?This is not only destabilizing and dangerous for the region but for the world as a whole,? North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said at a press briefing in Oslo. ?As soon as possible North Korea should stop these tests, go back to the table.?

The Obama administration is seeking a unified international response to North Korea?s actions, and South Korea agreed today to join a U.S.-led program to prevent weapons shipments. Japan?s lower house of parliament today unanimously adopted a resolution condemning what it called a ?reckless act? and urging the government to impose tougher sanctions on the communist regime.

President Barack Obama, who yesterday said the U.S. ?will work with our friends and allies to stand up to this behavior,? spoke earlier today with his Japanese and South Korean counterparts and planned to consult with China and Russia. The United Nations Security Council agreed to pursue new measures against North Korea.

Complicates Efforts

The renewed tension complicates Obama?s fledgling efforts to engage Kim?s regime and comes as the U.S. already is occupied with blunting Iran?s nuclear ambitions and the insurgency endangering Pakistan. The nuclear test and missile launches fulfilled North Korea?s threat to retaliate for the Security Council?s censure of an April 5 ballistic missile launch.

South Korea?s government said it will join the Proliferation Security Initiative, which aims to stop shipments of weapons of mass destruction. North Korea had previously warned the South not to sign up to the program, in which more than 90 countries participate.

 

[nageov3t]

quick, someone draft a stern resolution.

 

[Genx87]

As witnessed by the last 15 years. The world wont respond beyond harsh words, withold aid shipments until NK pretends to play nice, then let NK continue on their merry way.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: loki8481
quick, someone draft a stern resolution.

Dear NK

You are a big fat meanie!

signed,

The UN

 

[GoPackGo]

Other than trying to provoke a war, what are they trying to achieve here?

Proof that they are liars and cannot be trusted?

 

[heyheybooboo]

We should 'canonize' Kim Jong Il.

"" I can see my house from herrrrrrrrrre ... ""

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Other than trying to provoke a war, what are they trying to achieve here?

Proof that they are liars and cannot be trusted?

I would imagine this would still apply... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05...6northk.html?ref=world

But this time around, North Korea?s succession crisis is the primary impetus, many experts believe, suggesting that the audience for the test is its own population as much as the United States.

Monday?s test is the culmination of a shift toward a more assertive foreign policy, which some analysts say seems to have begun not long after the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, is believed to have suffered a stroke in August. Speculation about a successor has focused on his youngest son, Kim Jong-un, which would continue the family dynasty to the third generation ? one unique among Communist nations.

Some experts say the test was a display of might aimed at showing solidarity with North Korea?s powerful military, whose support would be essential in securing Mr. Kim?s choice of successor. Others believe the intended audience was North Korea?s largely impoverished population, in hopes a display of technological prowess could serve as the elder Mr. Kim?s legacy in a government that has failed to deliver even basic food and electricity.

Either way, the North Korean government most likely hopes the test will help ensure a smooth transition of power ? and, perhaps, show that the elder Kim is still in charge, at least for now.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Other than trying to provoke a war, what are they trying to achieve here?

Proof that they are liars and cannot be trusted?

Extortion in the oldest sense of the word. These nuclear missiles are meant to threaten nations into providing aid. Should that fail, they'll simply sell the nukes to terrorist groups.

 

[StageLeft]

Now we know NK is serious and can give them some more crap while they temporarily pretend to stop production of things for a while, then when crap runs out, rinse and repeat.

 

[piasabird]

Send Hilary to North Korea. She will get them to change their mind or will cause them to barf.

 

[techs]

but, but didn't the Bushies fix the whole N.Korea problem with their tough rhetoric?

/sarcasm

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: techs
but, but didn't the Bushies fix the whole N.Korea problem with their tough rhetoric?

/sarcasm

Bush failed like Clinton failed and Obama will fail if he doesnt change policy. They both tried to reason with an unreasonable regime.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: techs
but, but didn't the Bushies fix the whole N.Korea problem with their tough rhetoric?

/sarcasm

Bush failed like Clinton failed and Obama will fail if he doesnt change policy. They both tried to reason with an unreasonable regime.

Obama is too big to fail. Whats next, the car companies are going to fail? You are such a troll Genx87.

 

[hiromizu]

They need to be told swiftly and boldly, to stop what they are doing, otherwise..

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: techs
but, but didn't the Bushies fix the whole N.Korea problem with their tough rhetoric?

/sarcasm

Bush failed like Clinton failed and Obama will fail if he doesnt change policy. They both tried to reason with an unreasonable regime.

Obama is too big to fail. Whats next, the car companies are going to fail? You are such a troll Genx87.

Please explain the last phrase.

Genx87 is dead on in his assessment of both Bush and Clinton attempting to use the carrot approach and accomplishing nothing.

/edit Batteries were dead😱

 

[brandonb]

I wonder if this will cause the UN to demand power so it can handle situations like this? Paving the way for a global government. Wouldn't suprise me.

 

[jpeyton]

As long as they aren't attacking our allies, I really don't give a shit what NK does.

They're like the annoying kid in class that wants attention, and hates it when you ignore them.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: brandonb
I wonder if this will cause the UN to demand power so it can handle situations like this? Paving the way for a global government. Wouldn't suprise me.

I'll bet you $1,000 this doesn't. (actually I'll bet you the absolute highest dollar amount that you would accept)

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: techs
but, but didn't the Bushies fix the whole N.Korea problem with their tough rhetoric?

/sarcasm

Bush failed like Clinton failed and Obama will fail if he doesnt change policy. They both tried to reason with an unreasonable regime.

Obama is too big to fail. Whats next, the car companies are going to fail? You are such a troll Genx87.

Please explain the last phrase.

Genx87 is dead on in his assessment of both Bush and Clinton attempting to use the carrot approach and accomplishing nothing.

He's not dead on at all. The Agreed Framework almost certainly delayed North Korea's nuclear ambitions by years. In that case the carrot most certainly worked. Bush did almost nothing to try and reason with North Korea for almost his entire presidency, preferring to stick his fingers in his ears; an incredibly irresponsible and naive plan of action.

Invading and bombing North Korea is not a realistic option. The purpose of the Agreed Framework and any future deal with be to delay North Korea's weapons programs/ability to threaten its neighbors/etc. long enough for Kim Jong Il to die or the regime to collapse. There's no other realistic option.

North Korea is absolutely, 100% reasonable. Their actions are completely logical, and they are very predictable. To brand them as 'unreasonable' is to misunderstand the situation to the detriment of both our countries.

 

[Budmantom]

Obama needs to give them a good stern speech.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: techs
but, but didn't the Bushies fix the whole N.Korea problem with their tough rhetoric?

/sarcasm

Bush failed like Clinton failed and Obama will fail if he doesnt change policy. They both tried to reason with an unreasonable regime.

Obama is too big to fail. Whats next, the car companies are going to fail? You are such a troll Genx87.

Please explain the last phrase.

Genx87 is dead on in his assessment of both Bush and Clinton attempting to use the carrot approach and accomplishing nothing.

He's not dead on at all. The Agreed Framework almost certainly delayed North Korea's nuclear ambitions by years. In that case the carrot most certainly worked. Bush did almost nothing to try and reason with North Korea for almost his entire presidency, preferring to stick his fingers in his ears; an incredibly irresponsible and naive plan of action.

Invading and bombing North Korea is not a realistic option. The purpose of the Agreed Framework and any future deal with be to delay North Korea's weapons programs/ability to threaten its neighbors/etc. long enough for Kim Jong Il to die or the regime to collapse. There's no other realistic option.

North Korea is absolutely, 100% reasonable. Their actions are completely logical, and they are very predictable. To brand them as 'unreasonable' is to misunderstand the situation to the detriment of both our countries.

Nobody said anything about bombing NK did they?

That said anybody who believes any of our previous 15 years worth of diplomacy amounted to anything except a slap in the face is delusional. And I see where you are going. You honestly believe the NK nuke research started up and developed a nuclear device in a couple of years under Bush? Sorry just doesnt add up. They were working on that sucker during the 1990s when we were bending over asking where to send the aid shipments. Two administrations tried and failed to stop their program through negotiation. Obama will try the same and it will fail.

The only framework laid is one that Iran is now following. Delay delay, toss out a gesture, delay then show up with a device and ask wtf are you going to do about it? Give us aid or we close the straits of hormuz. Just like NK will eventually start threatening seoul.

They are unreasonable in the sense they wont give anything up except small talk when it suits them. To think otherwise is clearly a detriment to our country and the world. Because that is the exact thinking we have been using for the past 15 years that lead to this complete and utter failure.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Nobody said anything about bombing NK did they?

That said anybody who believes any of our previous 15 years worth of diplomacy amounted to anything except a slap in the face is delusional. And I see where you are going. You honestly believe the NK nuke research started up and developed a nuclear device in a couple of years under Bush? Sorry just doesnt add up. They were working on that sucker during the 1990s when we were bending over asking where to send the aid shipments. Two administrations tried and failed to stop their program through negotiation. Obama will try the same and it will fail.

The only framework laid is one that Iran is now following. Delay delay, toss out a gesture, delay then show up with a device and ask wtf are you going to do about it? Give us aid or we close the straits of hormuz. Just like NK will eventually start threatening seoul.

They are unreasonable in the sense they wont give anything up except small talk when it suits them. To think otherwise is clearly a detriment to our country and the world. Because that is the exact thinking we have been using for the past 15 years that lead to this complete and utter failure.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be misinformed on the nature and history of North Korean nuclear weapons research. North Korea had been working on nuclear weapons for almost 40 years at the point when they first 'successfully' detonated a weapon. It had nothing to do with 'suddenly starting up and developing a nuclear device in a couple of years'. Tellingly, the weapon was NOT a uranium based on as critics of the AF thought North Korea was developing in defiance of the agreement, but a plutonium based weapon using exactly the fissile material that the AF had locked up.

You also don't seem to understand the purpose of our negotiations. Sure it would be wonderful to completely stop the program, but our leaders aren't stupid. They aren't trying to have North Korea give up their weapons. Everyone knows that's not a realistic option, what they are trying to do is minimize and delay their development until the regime collapses. (ie: the smart thing to do) Our policy in the 90's was anything but a failure as it nearly certainly accomplished this goal for a very modest investment on our part.

 

[Xylitol]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Genx87

Nobody said anything about bombing NK did they?

That said anybody who believes any of our previous 15 years worth of diplomacy amounted to anything except a slap in the face is delusional. And I see where you are going. You honestly believe the NK nuke research started up and developed a nuclear device in a couple of years under Bush? Sorry just doesnt add up. They were working on that sucker during the 1990s when we were bending over asking where to send the aid shipments. Two administrations tried and failed to stop their program through negotiation. Obama will try the same and it will fail.

The only framework laid is one that Iran is now following. Delay delay, toss out a gesture, delay then show up with a device and ask wtf are you going to do about it? Give us aid or we close the straits of hormuz. Just like NK will eventually start threatening seoul.

They are unreasonable in the sense they wont give anything up except small talk when it suits them. To think otherwise is clearly a detriment to our country and the world. Because that is the exact thinking we have been using for the past 15 years that lead to this complete and utter failure.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be misinformed on the nature and history of North Korean nuclear weapons research. North Korea had been working on nuclear weapons for almost 40 years at the point when they first 'successfully' detonated a weapon. It had nothing to do with 'suddenly starting up and developing a nuclear device in a couple of years'. Tellingly, the weapon was NOT a uranium based on as critics of the AF thought North Korea was developing in defiance of the agreement, but a plutonium based weapon using exactly the fissile material that the AF had locked up.

You also don't seem to understand the purpose of our negotiations. Sure it would be wonderful to completely stop the program, but our leaders aren't stupid. They aren't trying to have North Korea give up their weapons. Everyone knows that's not a realistic option, what they are trying to do is minimize and delay their development until the regime collapses. (ie: the smart thing to do) Our policy in the 90's was anything but a failure as it nearly certainly accomplished this goal for a very modest investment on our part.

we waited for castro and... we're still waiting

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Genx87

Nobody said anything about bombing NK did they?

That said anybody who believes any of our previous 15 years worth of diplomacy amounted to anything except a slap in the face is delusional. And I see where you are going. You honestly believe the NK nuke research started up and developed a nuclear device in a couple of years under Bush? Sorry just doesnt add up. They were working on that sucker during the 1990s when we were bending over asking where to send the aid shipments. Two administrations tried and failed to stop their program through negotiation. Obama will try the same and it will fail.

The only framework laid is one that Iran is now following. Delay delay, toss out a gesture, delay then show up with a device and ask wtf are you going to do about it? Give us aid or we close the straits of hormuz. Just like NK will eventually start threatening seoul.

They are unreasonable in the sense they wont give anything up except small talk when it suits them. To think otherwise is clearly a detriment to our country and the world. Because that is the exact thinking we have been using for the past 15 years that lead to this complete and utter failure.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be misinformed on the nature and history of North Korean nuclear weapons research. North Korea had been working on nuclear weapons for almost 40 years at the point when they first 'successfully' detonated a weapon. It had nothing to do with 'suddenly starting up and developing a nuclear device in a couple of years'. Tellingly, the weapon was NOT a uranium based on as critics of the AF thought North Korea was developing in defiance of the agreement, but a plutonium based weapon using exactly the fissile material that the AF had locked up.

You also don't seem to understand the purpose of our negotiations. Sure it would be wonderful to completely stop the program, but our leaders aren't stupid. They aren't trying to have North Korea give up their weapons. Everyone knows that's not a realistic option, what they are trying to do is minimize and delay their development until the regime collapses. (ie: the smart thing to do) Our policy in the 90's was anything but a failure as it nearly certainly accomplished this goal for a very modest investment on our part.

Really? I find it hard to believe the Clinton administrations ultimate goal was to simply push the problem onto the administration's following them.

And excuse me while I laugh in disbelief that our goals were to wait for a collapse of the North Korean regime while we supplied them with aid that helped keep them in power. That makes complete and total sense.

Perhaps if we cut off aid that goal could had been achieved. We will never know because we never do it to the point of collapse. And through our own idiotic policy are in no position anymore either. We push them enough and they will threatened SK with the weapons they made while we supplied them with aid hoping they would collapse.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Doesn't NK have enough artillery pointed towards a couple of US bases and Seoul to totally flatten them both in case of mil intervention?