Im going to be headed to college in soon and I was wondering that this new notebook with the Intel Core Duo, I read somewhere that you could install the windows o/s opposed to running mac's o/s. Considering its 3x faster for the same price than Microsoft?s. Is this true? (I'll be owning windows vista here shortly, if thats a playing factor)
Noob Question: New Mac Notebooks, can run windows?
- Thread starter Coldkilla
- Start date
Yes you can have a dual boot OSx Windows (or even linnux) apple mac branded PC. You could always just install XP only on it too.
There was a press release on it somewhere.
I don't know what you're on about with the x3 bit, care to elaborate?
There was a press release on it somewhere.
I don't know what you're on about with the x3 bit, care to elaborate?
Sweet. Thanks. Will it have all the features of windows? I mean, will any programs NOT work because its running on a Mac platform, with a windows os?
Most programs won't know what hardware they're running on. However, hardware features (like the built-in iSight, illuminated keyboard, sudden motion sensor, etc.) won't work without a Windows driver.
cmdrdredd
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2001
- 27,052
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This is not the CURENT SHIPPING HARDWARE! This is for the new x86 archittecture based systems to be released later. These systems will have Intel Chipsets/CPU.
Current G4/G5 systems will not run windows directly, but you can use VirtualPC (now ownd by microsoft) to run Windows ontop of OSX. You can use any version of windows including server.
Apple always releases them in vapor form and ships limited units to dev/production houses that are big orders. You can probably find them in a couple months.
With all this being said if you actually use OSX for a week you probably won't want to go back to Windows...it's just that nice. The availability of apps for windows is the only draw to using it instead.
Current G4/G5 systems will not run windows directly, but you can use VirtualPC (now ownd by microsoft) to run Windows ontop of OSX. You can use any version of windows including server.
Apple always releases them in vapor form and ships limited units to dev/production houses that are big orders. You can probably find them in a couple months.
With all this being said if you actually use OSX for a week you probably won't want to go back to Windows...it's just that nice. The availability of apps for windows is the only draw to using it instead.
cmdrdredd
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2001
- 27,052
- 357
- 126
No I didn't you just don't understand Apple's tactics.
They have a big PR thing at an expo for new hardware 2x a year and DO NOT SHIP the hardware for a month, then it takes another month for supply to catch up. I've used macs for over 10 years...it's the same thing every time.
What I would recommend is waiting on Powerbooks to drop to rockbottom later this spring when the new ProBooks come around in availability. Then just run VirtualPC which is suprisingly very fast.
Why do I say this? Because Macs are expensive.
The iMac is shipping this week, many are already in transit to Apple retail stores.
The MacBookPro will ship in "February", which is exactly what Gateway is saying about their Intel Core Duo powered notebooks.
Both the iMac and the MacBookPro use an Intel chipset and Apple has stated that they're not going to stop users from using Windows. *However* it is not possible to boot an unmodified copy of Windows at this time. This is because the new Intel powered Macs don't use a traditional BIOS, they use Intel's much newer EFI (extensible firmware interface), the BIOS replacement that Intel has been hyping since about 1998. Windows XP doesn't support EFI at this time. I have personally seen EFI in use on Itanium/Itanium2 powered workstations, it's much more powerful than a BIOS as it has a scripting language, command-line interface, and even some basic GUI interfaces to common settings. EFI is much like the PROM on an SGI workstation or the OpenFirmware interface on a Sun Workstation or PowerPC Mac.
As for prices, there will always be companies selling less than Apple. And it's hard to beat Dell when you have three or four stacked coupons. But I think Apple's prices are pretty good for what's all included. Especially if you're a student. For me, $1199 buys a 17" iMac with Intel Core Duo, X1600 128MB graphics (X1600 is pretty good for a consumer machine), 8x slot load DL burner, 512 MB / 160 GB, built-in good quality webcam, a remote control, 802.11g, Bluetooth 2.0, firewire, gigE, basic keyboard, Apple's funky new mouse, and the whole iLife software suite, which keeps getting better and better. I think they also bundle Quicken 2006 and a couple games.
Or if I go with a laptop, $1799 buys me the new bright 15.4" LCD, Intel Core Duo, X1600 128 MB graphics, slot load burner, 512 MB / 80 GB, built-in good quality webcam, a remote control, 802.11g, Bluetooth 2.0, firewire, gigE, backlit keyboard, trackpad with scroll features, sudden motion sensor (to park the HD heads or to use for some crazy games), mini-optical audio out, ExpressCard/34 slot, lithium polymer battery, magneticly attached power connector (no more broken connectors when you trip over the cord), dual-link DVI (can drive Dell's new 30" LCD or Apple's 30"), supports dual monitor, not just mirrored. An IR remote control. Includes iLife 06, some games, and QuickBooks accounting software. And it's just 1" thick and skinned in aluminum.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the RAM. I don't know what Crucial charges for a stick of 667 MHz DDR2.
Yes, I'm gonna buy a MacBookPro as soon as someone creates a hack to dual boot into Windows and/or finishes the Mac port of Wine for running Windows apps inside Mac OS X.
The MacBookPro will ship in "February", which is exactly what Gateway is saying about their Intel Core Duo powered notebooks.
Both the iMac and the MacBookPro use an Intel chipset and Apple has stated that they're not going to stop users from using Windows. *However* it is not possible to boot an unmodified copy of Windows at this time. This is because the new Intel powered Macs don't use a traditional BIOS, they use Intel's much newer EFI (extensible firmware interface), the BIOS replacement that Intel has been hyping since about 1998. Windows XP doesn't support EFI at this time. I have personally seen EFI in use on Itanium/Itanium2 powered workstations, it's much more powerful than a BIOS as it has a scripting language, command-line interface, and even some basic GUI interfaces to common settings. EFI is much like the PROM on an SGI workstation or the OpenFirmware interface on a Sun Workstation or PowerPC Mac.
As for prices, there will always be companies selling less than Apple. And it's hard to beat Dell when you have three or four stacked coupons. But I think Apple's prices are pretty good for what's all included. Especially if you're a student. For me, $1199 buys a 17" iMac with Intel Core Duo, X1600 128MB graphics (X1600 is pretty good for a consumer machine), 8x slot load DL burner, 512 MB / 160 GB, built-in good quality webcam, a remote control, 802.11g, Bluetooth 2.0, firewire, gigE, basic keyboard, Apple's funky new mouse, and the whole iLife software suite, which keeps getting better and better. I think they also bundle Quicken 2006 and a couple games.
Or if I go with a laptop, $1799 buys me the new bright 15.4" LCD, Intel Core Duo, X1600 128 MB graphics, slot load burner, 512 MB / 80 GB, built-in good quality webcam, a remote control, 802.11g, Bluetooth 2.0, firewire, gigE, backlit keyboard, trackpad with scroll features, sudden motion sensor (to park the HD heads or to use for some crazy games), mini-optical audio out, ExpressCard/34 slot, lithium polymer battery, magneticly attached power connector (no more broken connectors when you trip over the cord), dual-link DVI (can drive Dell's new 30" LCD or Apple's 30"), supports dual monitor, not just mirrored. An IR remote control. Includes iLife 06, some games, and QuickBooks accounting software. And it's just 1" thick and skinned in aluminum.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the RAM. I don't know what Crucial charges for a stick of 667 MHz DDR2.
Yes, I'm gonna buy a MacBookPro as soon as someone creates a hack to dual boot into Windows and/or finishes the Mac port of Wine for running Windows apps inside Mac OS X.
IMHO, VirtualPC is anything BUT fast, yeh it'll run old little progs that don't require much juice, but anything significant and your SOL. Plus there isn't any directX translation, so no 3d apps (or at most software only rendering) - so don't expect to play any games through Virtual PC.
Plus, you need to buy BOTH VirtualPC AND a windows XP license. With the new MacBooks, you'd just need a copy of windows that will run on EFI (Which XP doesn't). Vista will likely support it though.
AND, I just did a price comparison between the new MacBook and an equivalently speced Dell Inspiron (look for other topic in this forum). The Mac came out cheaper!
Before this I would have agreed with you about recommending a mac to anyone on price alone. You could always get a much faster windows PC for LESS money than any PowerMac - that looks like it's changing now.
So, I'd have tell this kid to go for it. The new MacBook will be a great college computer - mac OSX is gorgeuos and functional, and you'll be able to get most of the software you need for free (GNU, open source etc.) - OpenOffice 2.0 for example is really good, I finally stopped using MS Office XP completely, I have it on both my Mac and my Windows PC, and it runs a little better on the Mac - and then down the road you can install windows for whatever gaming needs you have (That's honestly the only reason I can think of to keep Windows around anymore).
I think he means buy a future version of Virual PC, one that will no longer require emulation (because the new Macs are essentially PCs underneath). It should be fairly simple for Microsoft to support DirectX, etc, in Intel versions of Virtual PC as the new Macs are using standard Intel chipsets and standard components (such as the ATI X1600 GPU).
I agree that Virtual PC is sloooow on PowerPC hardware. It wasn't too bad back in the days of running Win98 on a G3, but today so many programs expect hardware accelerated graphics and modern drivers. The current G4/G5 version of Virtual PC emulates something similar to a 266 MHz PII with an ancient sound card and ancient graphics card. Unless you have some simple custom application you need to run, Virtual PC is pretty much useless these days. You can get native Mac applications to do almost any task you need. Sketchup and Vectorworks do 99% of what AutoCAD does and even supports many of the same file formats. MS MacOffice 2004 is pretty good. Most of the Adobe apps are available for Mac. Apple ships every Mac with a *huge* bundle of multimedia software and sells several serious pro apps too.
If there is a heavy duty Windows app you must run on your Mac, you're better off installing it on a real PC. If you need to access it from the Mac, you can download the mac client vesion of Windows Remote Desktop from microsoft.com/mac.
I agree that Virtual PC is sloooow on PowerPC hardware. It wasn't too bad back in the days of running Win98 on a G3, but today so many programs expect hardware accelerated graphics and modern drivers. The current G4/G5 version of Virtual PC emulates something similar to a 266 MHz PII with an ancient sound card and ancient graphics card. Unless you have some simple custom application you need to run, Virtual PC is pretty much useless these days. You can get native Mac applications to do almost any task you need. Sketchup and Vectorworks do 99% of what AutoCAD does and even supports many of the same file formats. MS MacOffice 2004 is pretty good. Most of the Adobe apps are available for Mac. Apple ships every Mac with a *huge* bundle of multimedia software and sells several serious pro apps too.
If there is a heavy duty Windows app you must run on your Mac, you're better off installing it on a real PC. If you need to access it from the Mac, you can download the mac client vesion of Windows Remote Desktop from microsoft.com/mac.
No, he was recommending the kid wait for the Old PowerBooks to drop in price once the new MacBooks become more available, and then snap up one of those up for cheap and fill his windows needs with Virtual PC on that, which would be really really slow.
That would be wise of MS to update VirtualPC to run native x86 code.
I mean it would be pretty stupid to have x86 being emulated on Mac OS X through Rosettta Emulation of Power PC on the new x86 MacBooks....????
But then that would still leave my other argument about it being silly to pay for that and a Windows OS license, when you can (hopefully) just dual boot between the two - which would perform better anyhow.
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