noob here looking to be schooled on some 'higher end than P&S" camera gear

[purbeast0]

i've always said that i wanted to get a camera that is better than the point and shoots i've been using forever, and recently, it's just been my phone (iphone 6) to be honest. my Canon S95 got water damage after my last trip to turks and caicos while snorkeling (case had a leak in it) and it works, but the screen is all messed up and half of the features don't work.

since my wife and i just had our first kid, we thought right now may be a good time to get a newer camera. i'm looking to get (what i think it is called) a DSLR. one of those fat canon cameras. we took some maternity pictures and just yesterday took some professional pictures again with the same lady, and those are the quality of pictures that i want to be able to take. i should have asked her what camera she had, but i just didn't think about it at the time. i also think i'm looking for possibly more beginner gear than she has.

as a complete noob here, i'm looking for advice on beginner gear to get that will take nice pictures that can show the depth of view (if that is what it's called) nicely and just have overall quality better than a P&S does. i'm also curious as to what reasonable expectations i should have for taking pictures with a lot of the "auto" settings without having to know a lot about photography.

i'd even be willing to look at used gear since money is pretty tight right now with a new child, but i'm open to pretty much all suggestions and just looking for some guidance on which direction to go.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Used gear is great. It's certainly where I started. I bought a used $300 Canon Rebel (original model) on eBay, with the kit zoom lens. Since then I upgraded within the Canon system to the point where I now have some $3000+ of equipment. So it's easy to get started small and then grow from there if you need to.

I would look for a used Canon Rebel Txi (T1i, T2i, T3i, etc.) on Craigslist. It should come with a lens, probably the 18-55 IS. This is a pretty good lens for a beginner, but it will generally not give you the drop-dead results that you're looking for. For that, you need a "prime" lens, i.e. one that does not zoom (the 18-55 zooms from 18mm to 55mm, which is wide-angle to mild telephoto). A zoom lens can generally not have as wide of an aperture (size of lens opening) as a prime lens. The aperture determines not only how much light is let in (better for indoors or other dark situations) but also the Depth of Field, where the subject is in focus and the background is nicely blurred.

A prime lens will have a maximum aperture like f/1.8 or f/2.0. (Lower numbers = bigger aperture) A zoom lens will have a maximum aperture like f/3.5 or f/4.0. The way the math works, an f/2.0 lens will let in 4x as much light as an f/4.0 lens. You can get several Canon prime lenses for under $200 such as the 50mm f/1.8, 24mm f/2.8, and 40mm f/2.8.

I would recommend either Canon or Nikon for your DSLR brand choice. Both have an extensive lineup of lenses, and it will be very easy to pick up used gear. Other brands such as Sony and Pentax have good stuff, but you are buying into a "system" and the easier it is to add to your system, the better.

Also worth noting is the mirrorless cameras such as the Canon EOS-M, Nikon 1, and Sony NEX lineup. Also Micro-4/3rds cameras such as those from Panasonic and Olympus. All of these will give you much better quality than a P&S, in many cases approaching that from a DSLR (and matching DSLR's from a generation or two ago), and smaller size/weight and generally lower prices. These systems all have detachable lenses like DSLR's (and can generally use DSLR lenses with an adapter) but the camera body design is different.

You ought to be fine with the "auto" settings. The photos will still turn out better than a P&S because of the lens quality and the sensor size.

 

[purbeast0]

thanks for the breakdown.

as far as the different Txi models, is there a big difference between the different numbers in them?

 

[EOM]

thanks for the breakdown.

as far as the different Txi models, is there a big difference between the different numbers in them?

The bigger the number within that series, the price goes up, along with megapixels and features. If you're just starting out and going used(as I would second that recommendation) you can get started pretty cheaply.
I got a Canon Xsi (12 megapixels crop frame) used on ebay for my wife for about $150. It didn't come with a lens since i already knew what i wanted.

I'll also second the recommendation about picking up a prime lens. a 50mm(f/1.8) is a GREAT place to start, it was my first prime and it gets good pictures.

For my wife i bought here the 24mm f/2.8 and the 40mm f/2.8 pancake lenses for Canon.
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-EF-S-24...qid=1428943985&sr=8-1&keywords=canon+24mm+2.8

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-40mm-2-...qid=1428944015&sr=8-1&keywords=canon+40mm+2.8

She REALLY likes those lenses, they're lightweight and easy to carry...and not too conspicuous unlike my large zoom lenses. And, they're relatively cheap, at about $150 each.

If you're going strictly portraits, a 50mm f/1.8 is a great place to start. That was my first prime. They are about $120 NEW.... about 80 used.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Yeah, the T1i was the first (and is now the oldest) in the Txi line. Before that, you had Rebel, Rebel XTi, Rebel XSi. Then T1i, T2i, T3i, etc. You could certainly pick up an older model than a T1i, but T1i-T2i is about where I would recommend as a sweet spot. The newest model is the T6i. So a T1i is definitely getting along in age by now.... and along with that comes a corresponding price drop. I believe the T1i was the first in the Rebel lineup to shoot HD video.

 

[biostud]

The Nikon 3x00 or 5x00 line is also an option. I would also recommend just starting with a 18-55 kit lens, since it is a good starter lens that doesn't cost that much. It is first once you get to know how to use your camera, you should invest in more specialized lenses. Most people prefer to have a zoom, but I prefer the better quality of a prime lens and the more light sensitivity.

Instead of shooting auto I would strongly recommend starting with: single point focus + A(Aperture) mode (lets you control depth of field) + auto iso + 1/125 min shutter speed.

It is a very easy shooting mode that lets you compose your pictures much more than auto.

 

[EOM]

Biostud, I started out with a 3200, and then bought a 5000. I then bought an Xsi for my wife. In going between the two major brands, I've found that in general(not always) the Canon has cheaper lenses available.... might be just me though..? So if budget is a HUGE concern, building a system around Canon might be cheaper in the long run. That said, I prefer my Nikons, simply because I'm more familiar with it.

 

[Syborg1211]

EOM - I suggest doing the research on the lenses you would want for both systems and then make a decision there instead of basing it off of just seeing lower prices on canon lenses in general. Not all lenses are made equal and there's really only a handful from each system that are worth it. You could end up spending more on the wrong system if you buy cheapo lenses that you have to replace/upgrade soon after.

OP - I want to point out that knowledge of lighting situations and knowing how the camera works with that light and taking control of the camera are things that make great photos. Telling a photographer their camera takes good pictures is like telling a Formula 1 car driver that their car is super awesome. Sure, an amateur behind the wheel of that car can go super fast in a straight line by flooring it, but throw a turn at them and they're off the track.

This is not meant to poop on your parade and stop you from buying the camera, but I just want to manage expectations and warn that you'll need to invest time into learning the camera and learning photo editing to get your moneys worth. You might as well buy a really high quality P&S like a Sony RX100 if you don't want to do the work as it will take just as good photos in Auto mode.

 

[purbeast0]

yeah i realize that i won't get a camera and all of a sudden be taking pictures that are straight out of nat geo

but i would like to get one that will take noticeably better pictures than my P&S did in auto mode (which was an S95), and from my friends cameras that i've seen (i know one has a canon, one has a nikon), the quality on the auto mode they use is still great and has a nice depth of field on them.

and i also think that if i had a camera like that, i'd maybe take some time to learn how to use it. i will say, i never did take the time to learn how to use the S95 in manual modes to really take advantage of it, but the pictures in auto mode were quite nice.

is this a good deal in general?

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...l-t3i-ef-s-18-55mm-is-ii-lens-kit-refurbished

i also saw on slick deals that same kit at radio shack, brand new, for $365, however i think it's more of a YMMV if local stores have them in stock or not, and based on the item finder on their website, they don't look to have any left around me.

EDIT:

or what about this one? comes with an extra lense. kind of curious if that is a good value. it's more than i really want to spend right now though.

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/pho/4916735908.html

EDIT 2:

how about this one for $300?

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/pho/4972779484.html

 

[slashbinslashbash]

yeah i realize that i won't get a camera and all of a sudden be taking pictures that are straight out of nat geo

but i would like to get one that will take noticeably better pictures than my P&S did in auto mode (which was an S95), and from my friends cameras that i've seen (i know one has a canon, one has a nikon), the quality on the auto mode they use is still great and has a nice depth of field on them.

and i also think that if i had a camera like that, i'd maybe take some time to learn how to use it. i will say, i never did take the time to learn how to use the S95 in manual modes to really take advantage of it, but the pictures in auto mode were quite nice.

is this a good deal in general?

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...l-t3i-ef-s-18-55mm-is-ii-lens-kit-refurbished

i also saw on slick deals that same kit at radio shack, brand new, for $365, however i think it's more of a YMMV if local stores have them in stock or not, and based on the item finder on their website, they don't look to have any left around me.

EDIT:

or what about this one? comes with an extra lense. kind of curious if that is a good value. it's more than i really want to spend right now though.

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/pho/4916735908.html

EDIT 2:

how about this one for $300?

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/pho/4972779484.html

I'm not totally up to date on the market pricing of these cameras, but I can say that $350 straight from Canon for the refurb T3i with 18-55IS is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. MAYBE you overpay by $50 or $100, but $350 for a pretty darn nice factory refurbished DSLR is like, dude, why not? At least for me. It's not quite impulse purchase territory, but let's just say the barriers to entry are pretty low at that price point. Say you use it for a year and decide it's not for you. You can get at least $250 out of it. (The lens goes for around $100 itself.)

The deal for $425 with the extra 55-250 IS lens is a nice deal IMO. $75 more for the lens (which is around a $100-150 lens used), remote, filters, book, and a decent bag is a pretty good deal.

The 55-250 isn't the first lens I would recommend after the basic 18-55 zoom, but it is within the top 2 or 3, and would be most people's second lens. Most people are too tied into the zoom thing (want to "zoom in moar!!!") and primes are a little under the radar for a lot of people. They think "Why would I want to spend that much money for a lens that doesn't even zoom in and out?" It takes a while to explain to them that a 50mm f/1.8 would let in roughly 4x as much light as their basic zoom lens, and what that can do for their photos.

 

[CuriousMike]

Nikon D3300 with lens, $399 from a reputable seller who will actually deal with you if there is an issue.
http://www.adorama.com/inkd3300kr.html

 

[wasabiman123]

Pentax K50 with the cheap primes. Why all the canon recs when their sensors suck! Bleh.

 

[ControlD]

You might need to temper your expectations a little bit if you are hoping to get professional quality pictures with significantly cheaper gear. If you are hoping to do much indoor photography of the new addition to your family you will either need fast lenses ($$) or good lighting. Probably the best purchase I made when in a similar situation was a decent flash. Learn how to bounce the flash off of things to get nice lighting and you can get by with slower lenses like the 18-55IS. The other alternative is to buy a couple of fast prime lenses. My Sigma 30mm f/1.4 gets used a ton indoors for available light pictures. You can find that lens for around $300 used online.

If you want really nice pictures with blurry backgrounds you need to think about some fast primes really if shooting indoors. If you are outside with good lighting there are plenty of other options, but inside will be the biggest challenge.

 

[EOM]

EOM - I suggest doing the research on the lenses you would want for both systems and then make a decision there instead of basing it off of just seeing lower prices on canon lenses in general. Not all lenses are made equal and there's really only a handful from each system that are worth it. You could end up spending more on the wrong system if you buy cheapo lenses that you have to replace/upgrade soon after.

OP - I want to point out that knowledge of lighting situations and knowing how the camera works with that light and taking control of the camera are things that make great photos. Telling a photographer their camera takes good pictures is like telling a Formula 1 car driver that their car is super awesome. Sure, an amateur behind the wheel of that car can go super fast in a straight line by flooring it, but throw a turn at them and they're off the track.

This is not meant to poop on your parade and stop you from buying the camera, but I just want to manage expectations and warn that you'll need to invest time into learning the camera and learning photo editing to get your moneys worth. You might as well buy a really high quality P&S like a Sony RX100 if you don't want to do the work as it will take just as good photos in Auto mode.

Absolutely, I agree. There are good lenses in both systems, and a handful of great lenses. Definitely research first. OP seemed concerned about budget, which is why I focused there. Great thing about most lenes is that as long as you don't drop 'em, you can almost get your $$ back selling them. I've made my share of lens buying mistakes.

I'd argue, however, that the canon DSLR camera OP is considering even with a basic set of primes like 28+50mm will produce superior images to a P&S. Especially considering the budget aspect. Actually, almost any DSLR lens/camera combo will likely outshine its P&S sibling due to the size of the sensor and the lenses ability to open the aperture wider. I suppose it comes down to what are you going to shoot. OP said mostly family portraiture.

 

[EOM]

You might need to temper your expectations a little bit if you are hoping to get professional quality pictures with significantly cheaper gear. If you are hoping to do much indoor photography of the new addition to your family you will either need fast lenses ($$) or good lighting. Probably the best purchase I made when in a similar situation was a decent flash. Learn how to bounce the flash off of things to get nice lighting and you can get by with slower lenses like the 18-55IS. The other alternative is to buy a couple of fast prime lenses. My Sigma 30mm f/1.4 gets used a ton indoors for available light pictures. You can find that lens for around $300 used online.

If you want really nice pictures with blurry backgrounds you need to think about some fast primes really if shooting indoors. If you are outside with good lighting there are plenty of other options, but inside will be the biggest challenge.

I'd personally suggest learning to shoot natural light first. Get a fast prime or two (28 or 35 and a 50). Once you've figured out why you would manipulate any of the three variables in the exposure triangle (ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture) and how they relate to eachother, then move to flash. A TTL flash is more expensive, but will help you automatically chose the right settings. A manual flash is cheaper but you'll have to set everything yourself.

Artificial lighting has a higher learning curve I think, on top of learning the camera. Obviously indoor shooting has its own challenges and can be difficult without the right conditions.

 

[purbeast0]

as far as what i'm going to shoot mostly, it will mainly be for like family stuff around the house. i also would take it traveling, and my wife and i go on vacations to a lot of tropical places. and i like to go fishing a lot and could see me bringing my camera with me when i go fishing too. so i think some outdoor pictures will also be in the works with what i would like to take.

i'm considering snagging that bundle from the guy on the last craigslist post that i posted. $300 seems pretty fair for all of that. i also see an ebay auction ending tonight and am going to monitor it also, because it comes with the 50mm lense as well as the normal one.

i also love to a lot of underwater pictures when i snorkel and have done a lot with my s95 (and prior cameras), so there is a chance i would eventually take this underwater too. although, i would feel extremely skeptical about taking such a huge camera underwater lol.

 

[biostud]

Personally I would still recommend going with a standard 18-55 kit lens as the first lens. Once you have learned to use this with more advanced settings than auto, you will also have learned the limitations of the lens, what you shoot and how you want to shoot. Once you know this you can make a decision on your own experience.

I started taking pictures with a 18-105mm lens (~1000 pictures). When I bought my own camera then I knew I wanted prime lens instead so I bought a 35mm prime. After taking ~1500 pictures with this, I invested in a 85mm prime, then a 10-20mm ultra wide lens, and finally a flash, over a period of two years.
I probably use my 35mm for 75% of my pictures the 85mm for 20% and the wide for 5%.

So I learned to use the camera and one lens first, then invested in another learned to use that and so on. Investing in too much gear to start on might cause too much confusion/frustration.

 

[purbeast0]

one last bump...

so we got our pictures back from the person that took them. the woman that did our pictures told me she uses a canon 60D.

here are 2 of the pics that she took from the shoot.

realistically, can i expect to get this kind of image quality out of the t3i camera if i get it? and if so, how much of it would be manual vs just using some auto settings? also, how much post processing, if any (other than white balance) is done to those pics? that is kind of the quality that i'm talking about getting.

 

[biostud]

Raw to jpg always involve some kind of post processing. Sometimes remove errors like barrel distortion and chromatic vignetting.

I always take pics in jpg, because I'm not that much in editing.



With a good lens you can get pics that are just as good as those.



Auto is fine, you just get better control over your photos by taking control over some of the settings on the camera.

 

[radhak]

one last bump...

realistically, can i expect to get this kind of image quality out of the t3i camera if i get it? and if so, how much of it would be manual vs just using some auto settings? also, how much post processing, if any (other than white balance) is done to those pics? that is kind of the quality that i'm talking about getting.

Those are decently good pictures, but mostly because of great models .

I think you can get those shots right off the bat with a good DSLR. And with some practice, you could get some really fantastic shots that will leave these behind in the dust.

 

[purbeast0]

okay well thanks for that clarification. i too always take pics in jpg. i realize it's now raw mode, but i didn't realize that it did post processing. i just assumed that it compressed it a bit (which i guess is considered post processing) to get it to fit into jpg format.

the only post processing experience i really have is doing auto-leve correcting (or white level correcting, forget which it was) to make my underwater pictures remove the blueish hue to the pics.

if i can get pics as good as those with minimal photography experience, out of a beginner DSLR, then i just need to get one. that is basically the quality i would like to be able to get, and getting better quality with a little more knowledge would be nice as well. i'm sure once i get it, i will play with it and learn how to take proper pictures in manual mode.

so now another question - i've been researching and searching on the T3i, and i've come across the SL1 as well as another canon that is comparable to it, with some people saying it's another good beginner camera. the prices seem to be similar so i'd be willing to may be pay a little more for the SL1 (since i did see it's like $20 more or so, but used maybe i could find a deal) if it is a better overall camera.

but just as a noob i don't really know/understand what all of the different specs mean.

if you guys who are knowledgeable of this stuff were to get either the T3i or SL1, which one would you pick for a noob?

also, do they use the same "common" lense sizes? i see the SL1 appears to be smaller, but i can't tell from the scales of the camera if the lenses are the same physical sizes. the 2 i was looking at were these:

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...m-is-ii-lens-kit-refurbished?WT.mc_id=C126149
http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...-is-stm-lens-kit-refurbished?WT.mc_id=C126149

i notice they both have the EF-S 18-55mm lense, but one says "II" and one says "STM". and on amazon they show up as 2 different lenses so i wasn't sure if that means they have different eco systems, and which one is more universal.

arg so much to learn!

 

[biostud]

okay well thanks for that clarification. i too always take pics in jpg. i realize it's now raw mode, but i didn't realize that it did post processing. i just assumed that it compressed it a bit (which i guess is considered post processing) to get it to fit into jpg format.

the only post processing experience i really have is doing auto-leve correcting (or white level correcting, forget which it was) to make my underwater pictures remove the blueish hue to the pics.

if i can get pics as good as those with minimal photography experience, out of a beginner DSLR, then i just need to get one. that is basically the quality i would like to be able to get, and getting better quality with a little more knowledge would be nice as well. i'm sure once i get it, i will play with it and learn how to take proper pictures in manual mode.

so now another question - i've been researching and searching on the T3i, and i've come across the SL1 as well as another canon that is comparable to it, with some people saying it's another good beginner camera. the prices seem to be similar so i'd be willing to may be pay a little more for the SL1 (since i did see it's like $20 more or so, but used maybe i could find a deal) if it is a better overall camera.

but just as a noob i don't really know/understand what all of the different specs mean.

if you guys who are knowledgeable of this stuff were to get either the T3i or SL1, which one would you pick for a noob?

also, do they use the same "common" lense sizes? i see the SL1 appears to be smaller, but i can't tell from the scales of the camera if the lenses are the same physical sizes. the 2 i was looking at were these:

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...m-is-ii-lens-kit-refurbished?WT.mc_id=C126149
http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...-is-stm-lens-kit-refurbished?WT.mc_id=C126149

i notice they both have the EF-S 18-55mm lense, but one says "II" and one says "STM". and on amazon they show up as 2 different lenses so i wasn't sure if that means they have different eco systems, and which one is more universal.

arg so much to learn!

Taken with a "lowly" DX camera and a good lens, straight to JPG, no processing

 

[purbeast0]

Taken with a "lowly" DX camera and a good lens, straight to JPG, no processing

what do you mean by DX camera? sorry complete noob lol. those pics are nice for sure.

and it looks like the STM lens is the newer model than the II one. so i'm thinking maybe just going with the SL1, just seems like a more recent beginner camera.

 

[biostud]

what do you mean by DX camera? sorry complete noob lol. those pics are nice for sure.

and it looks like the STM lens is the newer model than the II one. so i'm thinking maybe just going with the SL1, just seems like a more recent beginner camera.

Same price bracket/sensor type of the camera that you are looking into. Not a full frame (FX) sensor which is far more expensive and use in the more advanced cameras.

 

[Alienwho]

I just read this thread and may be late to the party, but IMO you should seriously consider going the Micro 4/3 route instead of DSLR. Not only will you be able to get the same level of quality photo's with a 4/3 camera vs the level of DSLR you are considering, but the barrier to entry is significantly smaller with much more reasonable prices. Also the camera is MUCH SMALLER so you're more likely to carry it around with you. Trust me if you're not a pro photographer it gets old carrying around your DSLR gear. Also, instead of feeling like an amateur poser with a DSLR I now feel like a knowledgable hobbiest with the E-PL5.

In fact you can get the Olympus E-PL5 camera for $279 right now. http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=OMEPL5W1442

Do some research and watch/read some reviews and I think you'll be convinced. I think your lifestyle is very similar to mine based off past correspondents. I have a decent Nikon DSLR that rarely ever got used and has been completely ignored since we got the Olympus E-PL5. We got it for the same reason as you, to catch our new kids with better than iphone quality photos.