Non-Sandy Bridge Gaming upgrade?

[GullyFoyle]

Updated Feb 17, 2011:

A friend of mine is having issues with his current PC, and is itching to upgrade. If he can't wait for the Sandy Bridge fiasco to play out, what would you recommend at this time?

I have filled in what I know, below:

PLEASE when you POST threads asking for input on system builds tell us...

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
He needs a stable PC to run software for his work, Autodesk Revit. He is having issues with his is current PC where at times of peak activity, the software will crash to desktop.
He is also an avid PC gamer, and would like a high-spec machine to run games like BFBC2 and soon, Battlefield 3. He does not have a backup PC, because his last one died in a puff of smoke.


2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
He told me less than $1000

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
USA. He has a Fry's in his area.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
Intel CPU

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
His current system is a C2Q, I believe a Q9550.
His current video card is a 9800GT, but he also owns a 9800Gx2.
His power supply is a Thermaltake Black Widow 850 Watt.

He is looking to replaced the CPU/MB/Memory AND video card.
Everything else will be re-used.
He currently runs a Retail copy of Win7 32 bit, but want's to switch to 64 bit, to support more memory.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
It's all about Sandy Bridge recently. I want to hear the alternatives.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
Assume mild overclocking is OK

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.
Assume 1920x1080

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Assume the next two weeks

10. Don't ask for a build configuration critique or rating if you are thin skinned.
Noted

The above information IS NEEDED, in order that WE can help YOU make wise judgments on YOUR purchases :laugh:

Thanks!

Just to give you a target to bash 🙂, here are some items he was considering:

Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core
Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 (PC3 10666) $428 for CPU/Memory combo
ASUS Rampage III Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Motherboard $380
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6870 1GB Video Card $200 AR

 

[mnewsham]

What is his video card?

 

[GullyFoyle]

What is his video card?

I knew that was coming...I will post the info on his video card and power supply as soon as I hear back from him. Thanks for looking.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

1. are we really only considering CPU/mobo/ram, and nothing else?

2. what kind of C2Q?

3. can he really not wait?

I ask because it really does seem pointless to upgrade at this juncture unless waiting simply is not an option (i.e. something catastrophic happened such as fried or stolen old rig etc). 1155 makes 1156 completely obsolete and competes very well with 1366 even with 1366's extra PCI-e lanes, tripple channel memory, and 6 core support. It really takes a fully decked out 1366 rig to make it worthwhile over 1155, but such a 1366 system will easily run in the $1500-2000+ range for just the CPU/mobo/ram.

Since he prefers Intel, I won't even go into AMD's situation, however even that upgrade path doesn't seem wise considering we'll need AM3+ systems for Bulldozer compatibility later this year and those aren't out yet, so even a new AMD rig is running on life support.

If he simply cannot wait and really wants Intel then 1156 is the most logical option.

However I'd strongly recommend waiting if possible, the i5 2500K is hands down the best gaming CPU for a new rig with that kind of budget (its arguably the best gaming CPU period). In fact I'd even recommend buying one of the P67 boards right now if possible if gaming really is mostly all he's doing with that rig as most boards will come with enough extra SATA3/SATA6 controllers that most gamers should be able to get by without ever needing to use Intel's SATA3.

 

[fffblackmage]

I think he will be buying Win7 64, because he currently runs Win7 32 bit and wants 8 GB memory.[/B]

I believe your Win 7 32-bit license is also good for Win 7 x64. Just find yourself an x64 install disc.

Though it's already mentioned, I also think an i5-2500K is worth waiting for.

 

[mindcycle]

I just built a 1156 based gaming system a few weeks ago. I have an i5 760 overclocked to 4ghz in there right now. Seems pretty damn fast to me and i'd assume will last me several years with a graphics card upgrade or two maybe. I am, however, coming from a socket 939 based system. lol I actually wanted to build a sandy bridge system but newegg pulled the processors the day I was going to order..

I'm not as well versed in all the technology as others may be, however, i'd say just go for the 1156 build if you want to get something built right away. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i'd imagine a 1156 system will be plenty fast for gaming for at least the next several years. Hell, I could just about play any recent game with my 939 system and an 8800gt. Slightly lowered resolutions and low AA settings, but still..

 

[BoomerD]

I just built a 1156 based gaming system a few weeks ago. I have an i5 760 overclocked to 4ghz in there right now. Seems pretty damn fast to me and i'd assume will last me several years with a graphics card upgrade or two maybe. I am, however, coming from a socket 939 based system. lol I actually wanted to build a sandy bridge system but newegg pulled the processors the day I was going to order..

I'm not as well versed in all the technology as others may be, however, i'd say just go for the 1156 build if you want to get something built right away. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i'd imagine an 1156 system will be plenty fast for gaming for at least the next several years.

heh-heh...I just built an 1156 based PC myself...it's like lightning compared to the socket 478 P4 it replaced...

IF the OP's friend can't wait/doesn't want to wait for the Sandy Bridge issues to be worked out, then an i5-760 and quality board with at least 4 GB DDR3 should do a good job.
I'm happy as hell with mine.

 

[Sephire]

As soon as Newegg get their Sandybridge motherboard . . . . .

 

[mindcycle]

IF the OP's friend can't wait/doesn't want to wait for the Sandy Bridge issues to be worked out, then an i5-760 and quality board with at least 4 GB DDR3 should do a good job.
I'm happy as hell with mine.

Agreed. I have the ASRock P55 extreme4 myself, pretty quality board. What are you using?

 

[BoomerD]

Agreed. I have the ASRock P55 extreme4 myself, pretty quality board. What are you using?

ASUS P7P55D-E Pro. I'm very happy with the board.

 

[mfenn]

I believe your Win 7 32-bit license is also good for Win 7 x64. Just find yourself an x64 install disc.

Though it's already mentioned, I also think an i5-2500K is worth waiting for.

This is correct.

OP, I would not advise your friend to move from a C2Q to a Lynnfield setup because it would be too small a gain. AMD would be a lateral move at best. Additionally, unless your friend already has a GTX 580 or similar, it makes no sense to talk about a CPU upgrade without a GPU upgrade.

My advice would be to spend $300-450 on a new GPU like the GTX 570 or 6970 and a new PSU if necessary. Then hold onto the rest of the money for Sandy Bridge part 2 or Bulldozer.

 

[mindcycle]

ASUS P7P55D-E Pro. I'm very happy with the board.

Nice man. I've heard good things about that board. Almost picked one of those up over the ASRock actually.

 

[endlessmike133]

Any body who builds a gaming PC without Sandy Bridge today isn't upgrading..

 

[BoomerD]

Any body who builds a gaming PC without Sandy Bridge today isn't upgrading..

As usual, Endlessmike posts way out in left field...and this, coming from a guy who, not too long ago, said:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/game-performance-bottleneck,2738.html

GPU is more important than CPU, a decent dual core CPU is good enough for vast majority of games; sandy bridge quad cores arent needed

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31023793&postcount=1

i wouldnt buy sandy bridge now atleast wait until ivy bridge next year; lots of people are jumping the gun with this sandy bridges thing

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31044793&postcount=8

for gaming it doesnt matter which cpu you get just get the cheaper one

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31073176&postcount=2


:biggrin:

 

[eflat123]

Dang, that's gotta hurt...

 

[GullyFoyle]

Updated OP after a discussion last night with my friend.

I've been around here a while and I know some of your heads are going to explode when you see the components he was considering purchasing.

Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core
Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 (PC3 10666) $428 for CPU/Memory combo
ASUS Rampage III Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Motherboard $380
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6870 1GB Video Card $200 AR

I know there are much more reasonably priced options out there. What would you suggest?
How close to i7-960 performance can you get on socket 1156?
Is there a place still selling socket 1155 motherboards?

 

[mnewsham]

Updated OP after a discussion last night with my friend.

I've been around here a while and I know some of your heads are going to explode when you see the components he was considering purchasing.



I know there are much more reasonably priced options out there. What would you suggest?
How close to i7-960 performance can you get on socket 1156?
Is there a place still selling socket 1155 motherboards?

Do a google shopping search, there are still plenty of 1155 boards out there. And the i7-960 is reasonable at stock but the i5-2500k OC's wayyyy higher for much less. And with the setup he was considering he is GPU bottlenecked to hell. I wouldnt pair an i7 with less then a 6950/560ti

 

[mindcycle]

I know there are much more reasonably priced options out there. What would you suggest?
How close to i7-960 performance can you get on socket 1156?
Is there a place still selling socket 1155 motherboards?

I would suggest reading through the feedback on the i7-960, specifically the review from Bikenjutsu (about 7 down). I'll post it here as well. He sums it up quite nicely IMO.

Not Worth the Price For Gaming

Pros: The pros for this processor are pretty obvious. The i7 line is the fastest desktop CPU you can buy, and with a core clock of 3.2 GHz this is one of the top models.

Cons: I wrote this review for people who are still on the fence about their next build. I have one machine with this CPU that I have had for almost a year. The performance is, of course, top notch and I cannot complain about that. However, the price for these CPUs is outrageous. I bought mine because I am an enthusiast builder. At any given time I'll have at least 3 gaming PCs, and I am constantly upgrading and rebuilding them and handing down the old parts to friends and family. I had to have an i7 based system, but for those building on a budget who are unsure if they want to spend the money for this processor, I would recommend against it. One of my current rigs has a Phenom II X4 955 in it and you cannot see any noticeable difference in performance between the two. Oh, I know benchmarks will show the difference clearly, but in the course of running normal home applications and games, there is no difference between these two CPUs.

Other Thoughts: In fact, the Phenom system actually posts higher framerates in games because at the moment I have it paired with a better video card (the Phenom is running with an ATI HD 5870, the i7 is running with a 5850). If you have a multi-core CPU pushing 3.0 GHz, the CPU will NOT be your bottleneck in 3D games. If you have a budget to stay under, I can tell you from my experience building, testing and operating 4 quad core systems in the past 12 months, that you are far better off spending the extra money on an SSD and a top notch video card than the over-priced i7 CPUs. Workstations for CAD applications will benefit from the extra power of the i7, video games will not. If you have the money to spend and you want the best, by all means get the Intel. I was willing to pay the price for one, but personally I think Intel is shameless for charging so much money for the minimal performance gains you can achieve with these CPUs.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115224

 

[Sephire]

Well . . . . I dont mind my AV automatically runs in the background at 2 am while gaming Call of Duty :biggrin:

The faster the better.

 

[fffblackmage]

Updated OP after a discussion last night with my friend.

I've been around here a while and I know some of your heads are going to explode when you see the components he was considering purchasing.

Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core
Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 (PC3 10666) $428 for CPU/Memory combo
ASUS Rampage III Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Motherboard $380
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6870 1GB Video Card $200 AR

Uh... you did tell your friend he's totally wasting his money, right?

How close to i7-960 performance can you get on socket 1156?

i7-870 versus i7-970
At stock clocks, he i7-870 is probably the closest, and it's a bit cheaper than the i7-970. Even at stock clocks, the i5-760 is better buy, and once you factor in overclocking, there's hardly much difference between any of these CPUs, except price.

i5-2500K versus i7-970
If you can find the i5-2500K, it's roughly equal to the i7-970. You'll notice the i7 with hyperthreading tends to come out on top with multithreaded workloads like encoding and those rendering stuff, but as far as gaming is concerned, the i5-2500K is cheaper with at least similar performance. I'm actually a bit surprised that the older i7 comes out on top in Dragon Age though, but it's only a few fps better for like almost $100 more, so meh.

I know there are much more reasonably priced options out there. What would you suggest?

i5-2500K if possible. If not, then i5-760. With the cpu at around $200-ish instead of around $300, surely he can get a better gpu than the 6870. Afterall, the gpu is more important than the cpu, especially when a more expensive cpu only nets you a couple more fps.

Mobo should cost $200 at most. ~$400 is ridiculous.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I know there are much more reasonably priced options out there. What would you suggest?

How close to i7-960 performance can you get on socket 1156?

Is there a place still selling socket 1155 motherboards?

as I mentioned before, socket 1366 at this juncture really is only for those who really need something the platform offers that 1155 or even the older 1156 cannot.

First instance will be memory intensive apps can benefit from 1366's tripple channel bandwidth and six slots for up to 24GB whereas 1155/1156 are generally limited to 16GB with their 4 slots and dual channel. The real world situations that will truly benefit from this will be extremely rare (ie gaming is not one of them) so unless he knows his work will benefit memory will not be a reason to go 1366.

Second will be support for 6 core CPUs like the i7 970, i7 980X and 990X. Unfortunately these CPUs will put a huge dent on his $1000 total budget as the cheapest option is the i7-970 @ $600 which leaves far too little for the motherboard, RAM, and video card for a balanced upgrade. I'd also argue that 6 core won't be beneficial for gaming for a few years to come.

Third and last significant advantage to socket 1366 is extra PCI-e lanes which is ultimately only advantageous for users planning on running 3 or more GPUs on one system or perhaps other bandwidth intensive add-on cards such as RAID controllers. I think we can rule that one out as the budget simply won't be able to justify such things. Two video cards might be possible with a $1000 budget but 1156/1155 are perfectly suitable for that.


As far as performance from 1156 vs. 1366, the i7 CPUs will perform just about identically clock for clock. The problem is finding a stock clock 1156 that will match the 3.2GHz of the 960, one simply does not exist, the fastest is the i7 880 which too rare and too expensive to justify (we're talking $600+ IIRC) so we'd have to get their with overclocking. Fortunately 1156 does have a K series quadcore option, the i7-875K which is cheaper than the i7-960, although @ ~$340 its more expensive than Sandy Bridge which is a perfect illustration as to why it really would be best to try and wait. The i7-875K is clocked @ 2.93GHz by default however its unlocked multiplier should make overclocking as easy as possible.

But again, price really kills the i7-875K's value vs. an alternative like the i5-760 for just over $200. However the problem with the i5-760 is that its stock clock is 2.8GHz, and ultimately it really won't be quite the knock out over a Q9550 which is also 2.8GHz (2.83GHz to be precise) - the i5-760 is appreciably faster clock for clock but I wouldn't spend money on an i5-760 rig to replace a Q9550.


I'd really stress waiting at this juncture, if his Q9550 rig feels slow or is having problems perhaps he simply needs a reformat and/or some basic tuneups making sure all the parts are running properly and not overheating etc.

An i5-2500K or i7-2600K will both be faster at stock and have far more overclocking potential (the fact that they're both unlocked makes their overclocking even easier) than anything else in his budget, and the best part is that @ $230 and $330 respectively they're also both cheaper than anything else that could potentially come close such as the i7-960 and i7-875K

So I'd run down the list here of some very rough ballpark numbers:

i5-2500K: $230

P67 Motherboard: ~$150-200 (there's no reason to spend more than $300 on a motherboard unless he's looking to run multiple video cards and break overclocking benchmark records)

2 x 4GB DDR3: $100

That would put us at $530 as a conservative estimate for the CPU/mobo/ram, leaving plenty for a video card if not more than one video card, although I'd stick to a single and go no less than a R6950 or GF560 as that would leave room in the budget for a nice cooler for the CPU, a solid state drive (if he doesn't already have one), or more ram, or simply pocket the savings and go under budget etc...

But I really really really would try and wait if you guys can't find a P67 motherboard now, the Q9550 really should be enough to tide him over. If anything he could always at least buy the video card now and enjoy that until the motherboards become widely available again.


*edit: btw I'm making all of my recommendations based on an assumption of mild overclocking like Gully originally stated. An i5-760 pushed to the limit could be a more enticing option but that's something that doesn't sound like it would be an option given intentions of only mild overclocking, however I'd still rather wait for Sandy Bridge as any of the older 45nm Nehalems are going to hit a realistic wall around 4GHz with intense overclocking whereas the 2500K/2600K should both easily do 4.0-4.4GHz on the stock heatsink and be able to do 4.6-4.8GHz with intense overclocking

 

[bunnyfubbles]

i7-870 versus i7-970
At stock clocks, he i7-870 is probably the closest, and it's a bit cheaper than the i7-970. Even at stock clocks, the i5-760 is better buy, and once you factor in overclocking, there's hardly much difference between any of these CPUs, except price.

i5-2500K versus i7-970
If you can find the i5-2500K, it's roughly equal to the i7-970. You'll notice the i7 with hyperthreading tends to come out on top with multithreaded workloads like encoding and those rendering stuff, but as far as gaming is concerned, the i5-2500K is cheaper with at least similar performance. I'm actually a bit surprised that the older i7 comes out on top in Dragon Age though, but it's only a few fps better for like almost $100 more, so meh.

the i7-970 is a 32nm Gulftown 6-core and it costs $600 😛

 

[mfenn]

Updated OP after a discussion last night with my friend.

I've been around here a while and I know some of your heads are going to explode when you see the components he was considering purchasing.



I know there are much more reasonably priced options out there. What would you suggest?
How close to i7-960 performance can you get on socket 1156?
Is there a place still selling socket 1155 motherboards?

Please don't let your friend buy this setup. He's spending way too much on mobo, CPU, and memory and not nearly enough on the GPU. If he's been getting by on the ~3GB that a 32-bit OS offers, he certainly doesn't need to go all the way to 12GB.

Bunnyfubbles recommendations are quite good, though I should add that 1155 and 1156 have much higher turbo frequencies than 1366, which is another strike against it. The i5 760 will turbo up to 3.33GHz under singled-threaded load, only 133Mhz less than the i7 960's max turbo. The i5 2500 of course blows both out of the water, turboing to 3.7Ghz.

Finally, I would say that your friend should be looking at a 6950/GTX 570 at the minimum.

 

[fffblackmage]

the i7-970 is a 32nm Gulftown 6-core and it costs $600 😛

Dammit you're right... freaking Intel and the lame naming scheme. I just assumed it was a higher clocked version of the i7-960.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Dammit you're right... freaking Intel and the lame naming scheme. I just assumed it was a higher clocked version of the i7-960.

well IIRC the 960 (4 core) and 970 (6 core) are both 3.2GHz so they should be very close in performance outside of situations that can utilize the extra cores/threads

at any rate that just makes the 2500K's performance against the 970 even more impressive 😛