Nokia - Burning $$$

[akugami]

Nokia seems to be burning through tons of cash and one has to wonder if going with a proprietary OS at this point is wise for them. One item missing is how much Google spends on Android development but someone else footing the bill in developing an OS for them has greatly benefit companies like Motorola, Samsung, HTC, etc. Nokia is late to the party with it's new smartphone OS and the market is getting crowded with WebOS (we're all assuming there will be a new Pre phone), Android, iOS, WP7, and BB.

Considering how much Nokia has spent on R&D, one has to consider if Nokia is shooting itself in the foot by not going with the pack and releasing an Android phone. I do understand why they aren't. Nokia still is the top cell phone maker. Releasing an Android phone at this point means you've been brought back down and are no better than the rest of the pack. It's just that with the growing dominance of Android and the increased competition from others, it's going to be very hard for Nokia to make a good impression and get back some market share.

If one had to ask me, I think Nokia will eventually cave in and release an Android phone. Part of the future success of any smart phone is going to be app support and I don't think Nokia will be attractive enough compared to Android and iOS for the majority of developers. And any developer with leftover money to spend on developing apps at this point is more likely to develop for BB or WP7.

 

[shortylickens]

I think we already had this conversation more than enough times.

I will start and close by saying I would really like to see Android on Nokia hardware. Maybe even with extra bells and whistles provided they dont kill performance too much.

 

[akugami]

I think we already had this conversation more than enough times.

I will start and close by saying I would really like to see Android on Nokia hardware. Maybe even with extra bells and whistles provided they dont kill performance too much.

While there have been comments that have asked what Nokia was doing with their time and money, I don't think it's ever really hit someone how much time and money Nokia has actually wasted with nothing to show for it. I know that Nokia has wasted a lot of time getting a response to iOS and Android out. This is kind of obvious. It's just that it's staggering how much money they've spent on top of how much time they've lost with nothing to show for it. Even MS, who was clearly caught off guard by iOS and Android's success has a response out already.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I think people fail to realize how Nokia has had some of the top notch hardware in this industry for years.

While you were all snapping with your VGA RAZR cameras that produced ridiculously noise and ugly photos, Nokia was running around with LED and Xenon flash on 5MP cameras that still beat today's Android phones in terms of picture quality. FM tuner has been in phones since 2005, and flash was introduced then.

I've had Adobe Flash Lite since 2007 or 2008. I can't remember, but all those complaints about Flash video? Lulz.

Multitasking in S60? It's true multitasking. Not that crap iOS or Android throws out.

Look, I know in terms of an OS, Symbian is dated. S^3 has made great strides, but remember this is engineering a non touch OS into a touch OS. In fact, S60 is what you want in a non touch OS. It's practically perfect. However, after playing with the Nokia N8, it's not TERRIBLE.

I think people forget that Nokia does a LOT of development. This comes in the form of networks, phone technology, radio, OS etc. HTC focuses on the device end of things and a lot of these company just licenses a lot of crap. It's easy, but there's a reason Nokia has been a pioneer in the mobile front.

Many people in the US just don't respect this, but there's a reason why Nokia does so well worldwide. Sure you can talk about dumbphones, but even in the smartphone arena, it's incredibly popular.

 

[Fox5]

Nokia already has their own app store, mapping software, developer relations, there's a lot of the company that would have to be shed if they were to go Android.
Though I guess they could do Android, strip out the Google stuff, and add their own, but in that case it's not anything different than what Meego is, except all the technical decisions were made by Google and not Intel/Nokia. The real question is why is it taking them so long to produce a Meego handset? I expect the answer is they probably bet big on Intel's mobile platform.

 

[Deeko]

I like how you call researching "burning money"....

Anyway, the whole "omgz they should just run Android!!" thing has come out before, about both Nokia and RIM, and I've said the same thing....it'd be stupid. What people don't seem to realize is how much more money there is when you're the platform owner vs just the hardware manufacturer. Nokia has a solid, reliable, mature operating system - they just need to spruce up the UI (like Microsoft did - its still Windows CE underneath WP7). They might be dropping rapidly in both marketshare and mindshare, but they still sell a ton of phones (just not too many in the US) - they'd be foolish to give that up.

 

[shortylickens]

I like how you call researching "burning money"....

Anyway, the whole "omgz they should just run Android!!" thing has come out before, about both Nokia and RIM, and I've said the same thing....it'd be stupid. What people don't seem to realize is how much more money there is when you're the platform owner vs just the hardware manufacturer. Nokia has a solid, reliable, mature operating system - they just need to spruce up the UI (like Microsoft did - its still Windows CE underneath WP7). They might be dropping rapidly in both marketshare and mindshare, but they still sell a ton of phones (just not too many in the US) - they'd be foolish to give that up.

I dont know about the OP but I certainly wasnt suggesting Nokia dump Symbian, just that if they wanna get back their U.S. market they need to adopt Android or WebOS or WM7. They could still keep S60 for their low-end phones around the world and S^3 for European smartphones.

 

[Deeko]

Well, I think the alternative is to just build a better UI for their phones, rather than adopting one of the aforementioned OSes. Like Palm and Microsoft have shown, the old giants of the smartphone world are capable of building a modern OS.

And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a Nokia phone with a solid UI layer, I just don't necessarily think they have to go Android to do it. Like Delrium mentioned, they've frequently been way ahead of the curve in terms of hardware capabilities. I remember when I was shopping for a phone in 2007, and comparing the N95 to the iPhone. Sure, the iPhone was much prettier and had superior software...but in terms of what the hardware could do? It wasn't even close. That still continues today in some aspects, such as the camera of the N8.

 

[abaez]

Well supposedly they are teaming up with MS, so there you go.

 

[Deeko]

I saw that article - while I'm intrigued, and would love a top-end Nokia hardware device paired with WP7, I doubt that's what the announcement will be. As the Engadget article mentioned, they've partnered on more minor software things in the past.

Just speculating - maybe they're releasing a Silverlight library for Symbian or Maemo that lets you run WP7 apps on Nokia devices? That would be pretty cool too, and would be a big boost to WP7 developers.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I think people fail to realize how Nokia has had some of the top notch hardware in this industry for years.

While you were all snapping with your VGA RAZR cameras that produced ridiculously noise and ugly photos, Nokia was running around with LED and Xenon flash on 5MP cameras that still beat today's Android phones in terms of picture quality. FM tuner has been in phones since 2005, and flash was introduced then.

I've had Adobe Flash Lite since 2007 or 2008. I can't remember, but all those complaints about Flash video? Lulz.

Multitasking in S60? It's true multitasking. Not that crap iOS or Android throws out.

Look, I know in terms of an OS, Symbian is dated. S^3 has made great strides, but remember this is engineering a non touch OS into a touch OS. In fact, S60 is what you want in a non touch OS. It's practically perfect. However, after playing with the Nokia N8, it's not TERRIBLE.

I think people forget that Nokia does a LOT of development. This comes in the form of networks, phone technology, radio, OS etc. HTC focuses on the device end of things and a lot of these company just licenses a lot of crap. It's easy, but there's a reason Nokia has been a pioneer in the mobile front.

Many people in the US just don't respect this, but there's a reason why Nokia does so well worldwide. Sure you can talk about dumbphones, but even in the smartphone arena, it's incredibly popular.

What exactly does symbian do in terms of multitasking anyway?

 

[akugami]

I like how you call researching "burning money"....

Anyway, the whole "omgz they should just run Android!!" thing has come out before, about both Nokia and RIM, and I've said the same thing....it'd be stupid. What people don't seem to realize is how much more money there is when you're the platform owner vs just the hardware manufacturer. Nokia has a solid, reliable, mature operating system - they just need to spruce up the UI (like Microsoft did - its still Windows CE underneath WP7). They might be dropping rapidly in both marketshare and mindshare, but they still sell a ton of phones (just not too many in the US) - they'd be foolish to give that up.

Actually, the reason why I termed it "burning money" was because they are losing market share, and have been for a while, while spending so much on R&D. A lot of companies spend a lot on R&D. Check out this chart from a GSM Arena blog which shows a breakdown on what they spent their R&D on.

For those commenting on it, I know Nokia's have been for the most part very reliable on the hardware front. My very first smartphone was a Nokia N80. I've also owned an N81 and N95 among the Nokia dumb phones.

I dont know about the OP but I certainly wasnt suggesting Nokia dump Symbian, just that if they wanna get back their U.S. market they need to adopt Android or WebOS or WM7. They could still keep S60 for their low-end phones around the world and S^3 for European smartphones.

From what I understand, the official word is still that Symbian is being relegated to lower end phones while Meego is the new OS for their flagship phones.

Symbian is not bad back then but from a UI perspective it has lagged behind pretty much every smart phone OS at this point. Every company has to invest in R&D. None of the companies would be where they are without R&D. I just don't think Nokia has gotten enough ROI on theirs.

 

[Fox5]

Wow Symbian costs a lot. Not too surprising though, in a world dominated by Windows and Linux, it's expensive to go it on your own. Android at least isn't a from the ground up operating system.
Nokia does spend a lot on UI research, but it doesn't seem to have paid off for bigger touch capable phones.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

i can believe that theyve been stupid enough to give up the entire us market by not releasing a phone with an os that is ready to go. they should have done what palm did and released an android or wp7 phone so they had stuff in the market and then developed meego at the same time, if they wanted to. everyone knows they build the nicest stuff, theyd be king of the android hill instead of motorola