No smoking in bars in NJ....

[tm37]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

Are you even going to repsond to my posts with something or are you igoring because you know you are wrong.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
just wondering, does anyone have statistics about the difference betweem second hand smoke and actually smoking? i know it's just as unhealthy but does anyone know any stats? besides, if i go to a bar to have a drink with my buddy, y do i have to shorten my life by 15 years because of that? y do i have to get cancer and die just because you CENSORED can't smoke outside! shish! :|

Well, let me tell you. I've been smoke free for about 2 months now and I went out for my birthday Friday night. I felt like I had smoked about 14 packs the next day. That isn't a statistic but I can tell you one thing: It's not good. 😛

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

If that is the nature of the business(smoking) then yes.

edit: traditional bars the nature of the business is drinking. They sell drinks for there profits. HOokah bars and cigar bars sell smokable tobacco products for there profits.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

If that is the nature of the business(smoking) then yes.

edit: traditional bars the nature of the business is drinking. They sell drinks for there profits. HOokah bars and cigar bars sell smokable tobacco products for there profits.

What if I want to sell alcohol to smokers?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

If that is the nature of the business(smoking) then yes.

edit: traditional bars the nature of the business is drinking. They sell drinks for there profits. HOokah bars and cigar bars sell smokable tobacco products for there profits.

What if I want to sell alcohol to smokers?

You can. Last time I check the bars around here didnt ask if i was smoker before they served me.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

If that is the nature of the business(smoking) then yes.

edit: traditional bars the nature of the business is drinking. They sell drinks for there profits. HOokah bars and cigar bars sell smokable tobacco products for there profits.

What if I want to sell alcohol to smokers?

You can. Last time I check the bars around here didnt ask if i was smoker before they served me.

However If I post sign outside that says SMOKING PERMITTED then before you enter you know that Smoking is allowed.

It should not matter if I am selling booze, or any other service as long as I have posted that I allow smoking within my premises.

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

And as a consumer you can aviod the "irritation" cause by SHS. You're choice. The bar owner OWN THE BAR it should be his cohoice if he will cater to me or you. Not yours.

 

[Painkiller]

Originally posted by: Regs

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: Regs
How about you just round up all the smokers in ghettos or concentration camps?

How about quitting?

Who said I smoked? I'm just a concerned member of this nations rights to free enterprise.

You can't lose something you never had.

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

And as a consumer you can aviod the "irritation" cause by SHS. You're choice. The bar owner OWN THE BAR it should be his cohoice if he will cater to me or you. Not yours.

owner of the bar has the responsiblity to provide a safe place of work thats all there is to it. if you can't wrap your brain around that concept by now im afraid you never will.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

And as a consumer you can aviod the "irritation" cause by SHS. You're choice. The bar owner OWN THE BAR it should be his cohoice if he will cater to me or you. Not yours.

owner of the bar has the responsiblity to provide a safe place of work thats all there is to it. if you can't wrap your brain around that concept by now im afraid you never will.

You have yet to SHOW ME that working in a smoking area is "DEADLY" and futhermore you have ignored my post that Claim it is not.

Are you afraid of intelligent debate?

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

And as a consumer you can aviod the "irritation" cause by SHS. You're choice. The bar owner OWN THE BAR it should be his cohoice if he will cater to me or you. Not yours.

owner of the bar has the responsiblity to provide a safe place of work thats all there is to it. if you can't wrap your brain around that concept by now im afraid you never will.

You have yet to SHOW ME that working in a smoking area is "DEADLY" and futhermore you have ignored my post that Claim it is not.

Are you afraid of intelligent debate?

Cancer is deadly and the toxins in ciggarettes cause cancer. Why must it be deadly tho for it to be legitamate? I mean Losing limbs isnt deadly but should there be measures put in place to reduce the number of workers who suffer loss of limb accidents duh yes of course.

Its unnecessary exposure to poisonous and harmful toxins. What more do you need to understand. Someone working for hours on end as there job requires in room filled with smokers smoking hundreds of ciggs per shift is being exposed to much higher levels of these toxins than if they were sitting in a room breathing clean air or if they with a friend who smoked a couple of ciggarettes. THe average smoker smokes a pack per day we'll say thats 20 cigs(this may actually be higher or lower its just for the sake of discussion). In a bar with 50 smokers each having 5 cigs thats 250 cigs in one day that the no smoking worker is exposed to. This adds up quickly. Its poison. its unnecessary and harmful. Owners have a responsiblity to create a safe work enviornment whenever possible. I dont need to debate this or show you reports. Being a business owner doesnt entitle you to do whatever it is you please at the expense of your workers or any one else.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

And as a consumer you can aviod the "irritation" cause by SHS. You're choice. The bar owner OWN THE BAR it should be his cohoice if he will cater to me or you. Not yours.

owner of the bar has the responsiblity to provide a safe place of work thats all there is to it. if you can't wrap your brain around that concept by now im afraid you never will.

You have yet to SHOW ME that working in a smoking area is "DEADLY" and futhermore you have ignored my post that Claim it is not.

Are you afraid of intelligent debate?

Cancer is deadly and the toxins in ciggarettes cause cancer. Why must it be deadly tho for it to be legitamate? I mean Losing limbs isnt deadly but should there be measures put in place to reduce the number of workers who suffer loss of limb accidents duh yes of course.

Its unnecessary exposure to poisonous and harmful toxins. What more do you need to understand. Someone working for hours on end as there job requires in room filled with smokers smoking hundreds of ciggs per shift is being exposed to much higher levels of these toxins than if they were sitting in a room breathing clean air or if they with a friend who smoked a couple of ciggarettes. THe average smoker smokes a pack per day we'll say thats 20 cigs(this may actually be higher or lower its just for the sake of discussion). In a bar with 50 smokers each having 5 cigs thats 250 cigs in one day that the no smoking worker is exposed to. This adds up quickly. Its poison. its unnecessary and harmful. Owners have a responsiblity to create a safe work enviornment whenever possible. I dont need to debate this or show you reports. Being a business owner doesnt entitle you to do whatever it is you please at the expense of your workers or any one else.

So you KNOW this you are displelling the stuff I posted Early.

Passive smokers inhale six cigarettes a year

The court vacates Chapters 1-6 of and the Appendices to EPA's Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and other Disorders

The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality,

And furthermore as an employee you have the right to not work for me

As a comsumer YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to spend esle where.

Let's excersise those rights before you start treading on mine

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
a lot of the same ole arguments in this thread. fact is this is a good law. may it spread throughout the land.

:thumbsup:

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

And as a consumer you can aviod the "irritation" cause by SHS. You're choice. The bar owner OWN THE BAR it should be his cohoice if he will cater to me or you. Not yours.

owner of the bar has the responsiblity to provide a safe place of work thats all there is to it. if you can't wrap your brain around that concept by now im afraid you never will.

You have yet to SHOW ME that working in a smoking area is "DEADLY" and futhermore you have ignored my post that Claim it is not.

Are you afraid of intelligent debate?

Cancer is deadly and the toxins in ciggarettes cause cancer. Why must it be deadly tho for it to be legitamate? I mean Losing limbs isnt deadly but should there be measures put in place to reduce the number of workers who suffer loss of limb accidents duh yes of course.

Its unnecessary exposure to poisonous and harmful toxins. What more do you need to understand. Someone working for hours on end as there job requires in room filled with smokers smoking hundreds of ciggs per shift is being exposed to much higher levels of these toxins than if they were sitting in a room breathing clean air or if they with a friend who smoked a couple of ciggarettes. THe average smoker smokes a pack per day we'll say thats 20 cigs(this may actually be higher or lower its just for the sake of discussion). In a bar with 50 smokers each having 5 cigs thats 250 cigs in one day that the no smoking worker is exposed to. This adds up quickly. Its poison. its unnecessary and harmful. Owners have a responsiblity to create a safe work enviornment whenever possible. I dont need to debate this or show you reports. Being a business owner doesnt entitle you to do whatever it is you please at the expense of your workers or any one else.

So you KNOW this you are displelling the stuff I posted Early.

And furthermore as an employee you have the right to not work for me

As a comsumer YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to spend esle where.

Let's excersise those rights before you start treading on mine

Those studies did not target the demographic that this law is intended to protect. Which is non smokers who are exposed to hundreds of ciggarettes per day. If im in a room for an hour with handful of smokers......yeah thats prolly not harmful but when you start talking about exposure in the thousands and tens of thousands of ciggarettes its obvious there is a negative impact.

If you are running a public bar open to the public you must make it comply in terms of saftey for the public who will be patrons of your establishment as well as the employees working. Those Elks lodges and other private membership only clubs and what not are private clubs. If you want to make it a private club you can and then you can serve gasoline soup if you want while smoking.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

And as a consumer you can aviod the "irritation" cause by SHS. You're choice. The bar owner OWN THE BAR it should be his cohoice if he will cater to me or you. Not yours.

owner of the bar has the responsiblity to provide a safe place of work thats all there is to it. if you can't wrap your brain around that concept by now im afraid you never will.

You have yet to SHOW ME that working in a smoking area is "DEADLY" and futhermore you have ignored my post that Claim it is not.

Are you afraid of intelligent debate?

Cancer is deadly and the toxins in ciggarettes cause cancer. Why must it be deadly tho for it to be legitamate? I mean Losing limbs isnt deadly but should there be measures put in place to reduce the number of workers who suffer loss of limb accidents duh yes of course.

Its unnecessary exposure to poisonous and harmful toxins. What more do you need to understand. Someone working for hours on end as there job requires in room filled with smokers smoking hundreds of ciggs per shift is being exposed to much higher levels of these toxins than if they were sitting in a room breathing clean air or if they with a friend who smoked a couple of ciggarettes. THe average smoker smokes a pack per day we'll say thats 20 cigs(this may actually be higher or lower its just for the sake of discussion). In a bar with 50 smokers each having 5 cigs thats 250 cigs in one day that the no smoking worker is exposed to. This adds up quickly. Its poison. its unnecessary and harmful. Owners have a responsiblity to create a safe work enviornment whenever possible. I dont need to debate this or show you reports. Being a business owner doesnt entitle you to do whatever it is you please at the expense of your workers or any one else.

So you KNOW this you are displelling the stuff I posted Early.

And furthermore as an employee you have the right to not work for me

As a comsumer YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to spend esle where.

Let's excersise those rights before you start treading on mine

Those studies did not target the demographic that this law is intended to protect. Which is non smokers who are exposed to hundreds of ciggarettes per day. If im in a room for an hour with handful of smokers......yeah thats prolly not harmful but when you start talking about exposure in the thousands and tens of thousands of ciggarettes its obvious there is a negative impact.

If you are running a public bar open to the public you must make it comply in terms of saftey for the public who will be patrons of your establishment as well as the employees working. Those Elks lodges and other private membership only clubs and what not are private clubs. If you want to make it a private club you can and then you can serve gasoline soup if you want while smoking.

I am only required to notify people that POSSIBLE hazardius elements may be present within my establishment. No More no less. I am not required to make what I do safe or comfortable to you the patron. You can choose to go else where. It's not like the water company here we are talking about recreation! As for the employees perhaps we should close down the Coal mines because we have lost more miners in the last few years than waitresses.

like being trapped in a small airline cabin with smokers?

Our mortality data showed a decrease in all-cancer mortality :Q

And furthermore the studies looked at the same Groups that the EPA looked at (the great SHS cancer PROOF that was thrown out of court as "junk research")

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just don't understand why so many people would have a problem with an establishment that was called 'This is a bar that allows smoking' a name aptly chosen by the new small business owner.

This person advertises in the paper 'Looking for bartenders/servers/etc. must be a smoker or not care to inhale second hand smoke just like all bartenders/servers in our nation's history'.

Now, where is the problem? Of course some extreme person will replace words with other words trying to make a smart argument out of it but face it people it really is as simple as listed above.

Also, you would not be changing YOUR life in order to go to a smoking bar since YOUR life has already been living in a world where all bars allow smoking. If anyone it is the smokers who are being forced to change, right?

These places do exist they are called hookah bars or cigar bars and they do require specific liscenses and people do choose to go there.

So I should be able to get a special 'smoking allowed in establishment' license? Sounds good.

why should business already in operation be forced to change? why can't someone start a non-smokeing bar? if there is such a damand i would think they would make a killing

the business isnt changing anything. They are still selling booze. That is the bars business.

And as a consumer you can aviod the "irritation" cause by SHS. You're choice. The bar owner OWN THE BAR it should be his cohoice if he will cater to me or you. Not yours.

owner of the bar has the responsiblity to provide a safe place of work thats all there is to it. if you can't wrap your brain around that concept by now im afraid you never will.

You have yet to SHOW ME that working in a smoking area is "DEADLY" and futhermore you have ignored my post that Claim it is not.

Are you afraid of intelligent debate?

Cancer is deadly and the toxins in ciggarettes cause cancer. Why must it be deadly tho for it to be legitamate? I mean Losing limbs isnt deadly but should there be measures put in place to reduce the number of workers who suffer loss of limb accidents duh yes of course.

Its unnecessary exposure to poisonous and harmful toxins. What more do you need to understand. Someone working for hours on end as there job requires in room filled with smokers smoking hundreds of ciggs per shift is being exposed to much higher levels of these toxins than if they were sitting in a room breathing clean air or if they with a friend who smoked a couple of ciggarettes. THe average smoker smokes a pack per day we'll say thats 20 cigs(this may actually be higher or lower its just for the sake of discussion). In a bar with 50 smokers each having 5 cigs thats 250 cigs in one day that the no smoking worker is exposed to. This adds up quickly. Its poison. its unnecessary and harmful. Owners have a responsiblity to create a safe work enviornment whenever possible. I dont need to debate this or show you reports. Being a business owner doesnt entitle you to do whatever it is you please at the expense of your workers or any one else.

So you KNOW this you are displelling the stuff I posted Early.

And furthermore as an employee you have the right to not work for me

As a comsumer YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to spend esle where.

Let's excersise those rights before you start treading on mine

Those studies did not target the demographic that this law is intended to protect. Which is non smokers who are exposed to hundreds of ciggarettes per day. If im in a room for an hour with handful of smokers......yeah thats prolly not harmful but when you start talking about exposure in the thousands and tens of thousands of ciggarettes its obvious there is a negative impact.

If you are running a public bar open to the public you must make it comply in terms of saftey for the public who will be patrons of your establishment as well as the employees working. Those Elks lodges and other private membership only clubs and what not are private clubs. If you want to make it a private club you can and then you can serve gasoline soup if you want while smoking.

I am only required to notify people that POSSIBLE hazardius elements may be present within my establishment. No More no less. I am not required to make what I do safe or comfortable to you the patron. You can choose to go else where. It's not like the water company here we are talking about recreation! As for the employees perhaps we should close down the Coal mines because we have lost more miners in the last few years than waitresses.

like being trapped in a small airline cabin with smokers?

Our mortality data showed a decrease in all-cancer mortality :Q

And furthermore the studies looked at the same Groups that the EPA looked at (the great SHS cancer PROOF that was thrown out of court as "junk research")

must be a conspiracy then.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: tm37

I am only required to notify people that POSSIBLE hazardius elements may be present within my establishment. No More no less. I am not required to make what I do safe or comfortable to you the patron. You can choose to go else where. It's not like the water company here we are talking about recreation! As for the employees perhaps we should close down the Coal mines because we have lost more miners in the last few years than waitresses.

like being trapped in a small airline cabin with smokers?

Our mortality data showed a decrease in all-cancer mortality :Q

And furthermore the studies looked at the same Groups that the EPA looked at (the great SHS cancer PROOF that was thrown out of court as "junk research")

must be a conspiracy then.

Well nice to know you went at this and I got called "retarded" by you Here I thought you wanted to have a Intelligent debate. I guess I am retarded

 

[waggy]

ahh thank you for stopping the darn qoutes!

now back to your scheduled argument.

 

[AMDZen]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

Face it.

Gigapet, you lost - all of the people who think the freedom of choice is the most important part of this argument, still believe that.

TM, you lost - all of the socialist people who think their rights are more important then anyone elses, will still go on believing that until they lose some freedom which is important to them.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Regs

At this rate, I would not be surprised if prohibition comes back.

See you at the speakeasy. It's behind Cagney's. 😉

 

[Regs]

😀:beer:

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
I can't believe this thread is still going.

Face it.

Gigapet, you lost - all of the people who think the freedom of choice is the most important part of this argument, still believe that.

TM, you lost - all of the socialist people who think their rights are more important then anyone elses, will still go on believing that until they lose some freedom which is important to them.

I don't think I lost I think that pet ran away and hid unable to deal with logic and reason

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: AMDZen
I can't believe this thread is still going.

Face it.

Gigapet, you lost - all of the people who think the freedom of choice is the most important part of this argument, still believe that.

TM, you lost - all of the socialist people who think their rights are more important then anyone elses, will still go on believing that until they lose some freedom which is important to them.

I don't think I lost I think that pet ran away and hid unable to deal with logic and reason

your argument did follow logic but certainly lacked any reason. A reasonable person can see that there is a need for certain saftey measures to be required by law in order to keep society from crumbling. Safe work place is one of them. Building codes is another. Health codes is another. Sometimes these laws make others temporarily uncomfortable but in the end they tend to keep everyone safe and healthy more so than if they didnt exist. If you would like to completely rewrite us law so everything is entirely logical and empty of reason please do.