NO POST after stock HSF replace

[Desi4Life]

Ok so here is my story, I have Athlon XP 2500+ Barton core with Asus A7N8X Deluxe 2.0 and I decided to replace stock HSF with a something powerful (Thermaltake Exterme Volcano 12). Once I completed the replacement, the system does not boot up. I don't get any BEEPs, nothing on the screen, HD and everything seems spinning but nothing more. I stripped everything out including CPU and the system was able to report (via Asus's speech post) that NO CPU INSTALLED. I then installed CPU and removed MEM & VIDEO but the system does not give any errors and again no display or beeps. I am thinking that the MOBO may have died due to one of the CAP being scraped (my fault while removing HSF?) but I was wondering if there was a sure way to tell that.

Part II

If my mobo is gone which would mean I need to purchase a new one. Assuming all my components are working good I was wondering If anyone can suggest what I should get now.
1) Is there a mobo that would take Athlon XP 2500+ Barton now and allow me to upgrade to something new in future?
2) If the above is false then, what would be a good option (without putting a lot of money) for a machine that would be used for gaming, surfing, some video editing, music etc...
3) Also, would I be able to use the PC-3200 mem, the new HSF and other components I have from the existing system?

Appreciate all the feedback

D$L

 

[Zepper]

Did you jiggle your vid card or RAM when installing your new HSF? Try reseating them and be careful to prevent static as that stuff is a killer in winter. Does the speed sensor wire on your new HSF work. Many mobos have a CPU fail-safe that won't allow booting w/o a fan with a working speed sensor attached to the CPU fan connector (specially marked). If sensor not working or attached to wrong mobo connector, etc. You'll have to clear the CMOS and make sure a fan with a working sensor wire is attached to the CPU Fan connector before you can successfully boot. Once you've booted you can go into the BIOS ans disable the CPU protection if you dare...

My mobo (Abit KW7) can't detect fans that run lower than about 2500 RPM - IDK if any Asus mobos have that problem or not.

.bh.

 

[Boyo]

Good point about the fan sensor. Make sure that you have it plugged into the right mobo connector. I have an Asus, and it won't POST without the fan sensor if memory serves me right.

 

[Desi4Life]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Did you jiggle your vid card or RAM when installing your new HSF? Try reseating them and be careful to prevent static as that stuff is a killer in winter. Does the speed sensor wire on your new HSF work. Many mobos have a CPU fail-safe that won't allow booting w/o a fan with a working speed sensor attached to the CPU fan connector (specially marked). If sensor not working or attached to wrong mobo connector, etc. You'll have to clear the CMOS and make sure a fan with a working sensor wire is attached to the CPU Fan connector before you can successfully boot. Once you've booted you can go into the BIOS ans disable the CPU protection if you dare...

My mobo (Abit KW7) can't detect fans that run lower than about 2500 RPM - IDK if any Asus mobos have that problem or not.

.bh.

I will double check your suggestion, but I am sure I have everything plugged in correctly.

D$L

 

[Operandi]

Perhaps you damaged the core during the HS/F swap?

Caps aren't really that fragile but traces are so if you scraped any of them that could account for a dead board.

 

[Ruptga]

1. Not really, XPs all used Socket A, which is now two generations removed from the current gen.
2. Find/build a cheap Socket 939 system from stuff in the For Sale / For Trade forum
3. Socket 939 uses DDR1, so yes, and if that is a new HSF, then yes I'm sure it will fit on s939 (unless it's just a really big cooler, then it varies from mobo to mobo). s939 has been around for a good while, you can find boards with AGP or PCIe slots, IDE and SATA, everything really.

 

[mechBgon]

Also, remember that the base of SocketA heatsinks has a step cut into one end, and it has to be oriented to match the raised, solid-plastic end of the CPU socket. In other words, NOT like this :camera:.

Furthermore, as I recall, some TT heatsinks came disassembled. If that is the case with yours, then you also must get the clip into the heatsink correctly, so that its pressure point (which is off-center) is directly over the CPU core.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Does the new HSF use a backplate? If so the backplate maybe causing a grounding problem. First thing I would try is to replace the stock HSF and see if it posts.

Or the new HSF is not seating properly and making good contact with the CPU

 

[Desi4Life]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Does the new HSF use a backplate? If so the backplate maybe causing a grounding problem. First thing I would try is to replace the stock HSF and see if it posts.

Or the new HSF is not seating properly and making good contact with the CPU

I installed the stock HSF and it is still doing the samething. I have a feeling its either the MOBO or maybe something wrong with BIOS. I was hoping/expecting that I would get some beeps or anything to indicate something is wrong when I removed MEM & VGA card but nothing happens.

ADDAvenger: any suggestion on which board to get for 939 chipset?

 

[Operandi]

939 boards with AGP were a strange and rare bread even when they were new so you might have a hard time finding any at all. Socket 754 boards were for the vast majority AGP based but are also becoming harder to find.

Unless you had a high-end card that particularly want to hold onto I would go with this nVidia 6150 based Abit board. It's a great board with a decent on board GPU along with a PCI-E 16x slot that will allow you to upgrade down the road.

 

[Desi4Life]

Originally posted by: Operandi
939 boards with AGP were a strange and rare bread even when they were new so you might have a hard time finding any at all. Socket 754 boards were for the vast majority AGP based but are also becoming harder to find.

Unless you had a high-end card that particularly want to hold onto I would go with this nVidia 6150 based Abit board. It's a great board with a decent on board GPU along with a PCI-E 16x slot that will allow you to upgrade down the road.

Well I don't think its a high-end card anymore but I have BFG GeForce 6800 GS OC AGP. As far as the above MOBO goes, I would rather trade my AGP card and get a standalone something that is better for now and can handle games in future. I was thinking of maybe just going the Intel Core 2 Duo way. I am not sure what I would need to purchase for that setup, CPU/MOBO/MEM/VIDEO/HSF? I have Antec Sonata case which came with 380W Antec PSU, would that work with Core 2 setup? how much it would cost to buy the parts needed for Core 2 Duo setup? I can probably sell the parts I have now and try to get as much money as I can and put some out of pocket.

 

[Operandi]

You can certainly do that but it would be considerably more expensive.

If you go Core2 (or AM2 for that matter) you will need a new board, CPU, RAM, video card, and HS/F (unless you use stock).

You can re-use the Sonta and the Antec PSU if you want but I at least consider replacing the PSU since those particular Antecs have been known to fail.

Let me know if you would like specific component recommendations.

 

[Ruptga]

You can reuse everything with the ASRock dual VSTA, it has DDR2 and DDR1 memory slots, as well as AGP and PCIe slots. Although, it's not an extremely high performance board (ie there is a physical 16x PCIe slot, but it's only wired with four lanes), but it will work if you're on a tight budget and want to be able to upgrade gradually.

Edit: I mean for C2D, something like this wouldn't be worth it for 939 when there are good cheap boards to be had.

 

[Captante]

The bad news is that Athlon XP's had very fragile cores & were easily damaged when swapping heatsinks (aka: crunch of death) ... in fact if the HS wobbled on the core while you were clamping it down it easily could have damaged the CPU core itself & I believe this is the most likely thing to have happened based on your description.

If clearing the CMOS (resetting BIOS to defaults) has no effect, pull the heatsink off again & do a careful inspection of the CPU core... if any of the corners appear rounded off or you notice a tiny crack anywhere, you've found the culprit, but even if you don't notice anything obvious, I suggest you find a way to test the CPU before bothering to replace the MB.

If it turns out to be the CPU, then your best bet is just to grab a cheap socket 939 motherboard/CPU combo... there are still Nvidia NForce 3 motherboards out there to be had & you should be able to get a decent single core setup going for a little over $100 or a dual-core (X2) for $165 or so.... these will allow you to re-use your RAM & video card, plus will out-perform the ASRock "all-purpose" boards by a wide margin.

 

[Desi4Life]

Originally posted by: Captante
The bad news is that Athlon XP's had very fragile cores & were easily damaged when swapping heatsinks (aka: crunch of death) ... in fact if the HS wobbled on the core while you were clamping it down it easily could have damaged the CPU core itself & I believe this is the most likely thing to have happened based on your description.

If clearing the CMOS (resetting BIOS to defaults) has no effect, pull the heatsink off again & do a careful inspection of the CPU core... if any of the corners appear rounded off or you notice a tiny crack anywhere, you've found the culprit, but even if you don't notice anything obvious, I suggest you find a way to test the CPU before bothering to replace the MB.

If it turns out to be the CPU, then your best bet is just to grab a cheap socket 939 motherboard/CPU combo... there are still Nvidia NForce 3 motherboards out there to be had & you should be able to get a decent single core setup going for a little over $100 or a dual-core (X2) for $165 or so.... these will allow you to re-use your RAM & video card, plus will out-perform the ASRock "all-purpose" boards by a wide margin.

Is there a sure way to say if the MOBO or CPU is dead? I checked the CPU and I did not see anything that would indicate that the CPU is damaged. As far as getting Socket 939 mb/cpu combo. Can you recommend anything that is good. I might opt in to get a dual core if its not expensive. My only concern is that I would like to use as much of the existing components as possible and then down the road when I am ready I want to be able to upgrade them.

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: Desi4Life

Originally posted by: Captante
The bad news is that Athlon XP's had very fragile cores & were easily damaged when swapping heatsinks (aka: crunch of death) ... in fact if the HS wobbled on the core while you were clamping it down it easily could have damaged the CPU core itself & I believe this is the most likely thing to have happened based on your description.

If clearing the CMOS (resetting BIOS to defaults) has no effect, pull the heatsink off again & do a careful inspection of the CPU core... if any of the corners appear rounded off or you notice a tiny crack anywhere, you've found the culprit, but even if you don't notice anything obvious, I suggest you find a way to test the CPU before bothering to replace the MB.

If it turns out to be the CPU, then your best bet is just to grab a cheap socket 939 motherboard/CPU combo... there are still Nvidia NForce 3 motherboards out there to be had & you should be able to get a decent single core setup going for a little over $100 or a dual-core (X2) for $165 or so.... these will allow you to re-use your RAM & video card, plus will out-perform the ASRock "all-purpose" boards by a wide margin.

Is there a sure way to say if the MOBO or CPU is dead? I checked the CPU and I did not see anything that would indicate that the CPU is damaged. As far as getting Socket 939 mb/cpu combo. Can you recommend anything that is good. I might opt in to get a dual core if its not expensive. My only concern is that I would like to use as much of the existing components as possible and then down the road when I am ready I want to be able to upgrade them.

You DID try clearing the CMOS right?

Assuming the answer to the above is yes *(if not, DO IT & report back!) the only way to tell for certain where the problem lies is to try swapping the cpu into another skt 462 MB that you know works, if however like most people you don't have an extra one laying around, I'd suggest trying a local PC shop... just bring the CPU in & ask them to test it for you, but don't mention that you want to get a new PC unless you know them, or the odds of it being "bad" will be much higher!

If it turns out you have to upgrade you'll have to make a couple tough choices... first DDR2 has replaced DDR as the RAM standard & as you are no doubt aware PCI-Express is now the standard for graphics cards... in addition socket 939 is being phased out so there arn't any really new & future-proof solutions down that road other then one of the Asrock boards which have many issues & so-so performance. Depending on your budget, I would either (A) grab a cheap NForce 3 MB & 3200+ to 3700+ cpu & re-use my RAM & AGP video card -OR- (B) If gaming isn't a high priority, you can get an Nvidia GeForce 6100-based MB with pretty decent onboard graphics & a real PCI-E x16 slot for future graphics card upgrades, plus you can use your DDR1.

Frankly if you were satisfied with the performance of what you have now & money is tight, I'd just go with choice B, because it'll be quite a bit faster then what you had before & you should be able to do it for a little over $115 plus shipping, and then you can sell your equipment to take some of the sting away.. the 6800GS should still be worth in the area of $100 shipped & if you get lucky & it was the motherboard that died, you might get another $30-$40 for the CPU although the MB won't be worth more then about $20. *(based on estimates from AT FS/FT)

Biostar GeForce 6100 @ $59 + $6 shipping

Athlon 3400+ OEM cpu @ $55 w/free shipping

Edit: Note that OEM cpu's do not include a HS/fan, so double-check & make sure the one you just bought will fit socket 939 because as I recall it doesn't ... if thats the case you can likely get one cheap on FS/FT here on AT or go with somthing like the one listed below which is decent & cheap too:

Rosewill copper-core skt 939 HS/Fan @ $15 + $5 shipping

 

[Desi4Life]

Originally posted by: Captante

Originally posted by: Desi4Life

Originally posted by: Captante
The bad news is that Athlon XP's had very fragile cores & were easily damaged when swapping heatsinks (aka: crunch of death) ... in fact if the HS wobbled on the core while you were clamping it down it easily could have damaged the CPU core itself & I believe this is the most likely thing to have happened based on your description.

If clearing the CMOS (resetting BIOS to defaults) has no effect, pull the heatsink off again & do a careful inspection of the CPU core... if any of the corners appear rounded off or you notice a tiny crack anywhere, you've found the culprit, but even if you don't notice anything obvious, I suggest you find a way to test the CPU before bothering to replace the MB.

If it turns out to be the CPU, then your best bet is just to grab a cheap socket 939 motherboard/CPU combo... there are still Nvidia NForce 3 motherboards out there to be had & you should be able to get a decent single core setup going for a little over $100 or a dual-core (X2) for $165 or so.... these will allow you to re-use your RAM & video card, plus will out-perform the ASRock "all-purpose" boards by a wide margin.

Is there a sure way to say if the MOBO or CPU is dead? I checked the CPU and I did not see anything that would indicate that the CPU is damaged. As far as getting Socket 939 mb/cpu combo. Can you recommend anything that is good. I might opt in to get a dual core if its not expensive. My only concern is that I would like to use as much of the existing components as possible and then down the road when I am ready I want to be able to upgrade them.

You DID try clearing the CMOS right?

Assuming the answer to the above is yes *(if not, DO IT & report back!) the only way to tell for certain where the problem lies is to try swapping the cpu into another skt 462 MB that you know works, if however like most people you don't have an extra one laying around, I'd suggest trying a local PC shop... just bring the CPU in & ask them to test it for you, but don't mention that you want to get a new PC unless you know them, or the odds of it being "bad" will be much higher!

If it turns out you have to upgrade you'll have to make a couple tough choices... first DDR2 has replaced DDR as the RAM standard & as you are no doubt aware PCI-Express is now the standard for graphics cards... in addition socket 939 is being phased out so there arn't any really new & future-proof solutions down that road other then one of the Asrock boards which have many issues & so-so performance. Depending on your budget, I would either (A) grab a cheap NForce 3 MB & 3200+ to 3700+ cpu & re-use my RAM & AGP video card -OR- (B) If gaming isn't a high priority, you can get an Nvidia GeForce 6100-based MB with pretty decent onboard graphics & a real PCI-E x16 slot for future graphics card upgrades, plus you can use your DDR1.

Frankly if you were satisfied with the performance of what you have now & money is tight, I'd just go with choice B, because it'll be quite a bit faster then what you had before & you should be able to do it for a little over $115 plus shipping, and then you can sell your equipment to take some of the sting away.. the 6800GS should still be worth in the area of $100 shipped & if you get lucky & it was the motherboard that died, you might get another $30-$40 for the CPU although the MB won't be worth more then about $20. *(based on estimates from AT FS/FT)

Biostar GeForce 6100 @ $59 + $6 shipping

Athlon 3400+ OEM cpu @ $55 w/free shipping

Edit: Note that OEM cpu's do not include a HS/fan, so double-check & make sure the one you just bought will fit socket 939 because as I recall it doesn't ... if thats the case you can likely get one cheap on FS/FT here on AT or go with somthing like the one listed below which is decent & cheap too:

Rosewill copper-core skt 939 HS/Fan @ $15 + $5 shipping

Thanks for the response!

I have already did CMOS reset, more than once, but still nothing is coming up on the screen. As far as money is concerned, I don't want to spend too much and if possible I may just get a replacement part of whatever that has gone bad until or unless I am ready to do full system upgrade. So, it would be nice to be able to tell what is gone bad, CPU or MOBO or both?

Can you btw suggest what I should look for as far as MOBO goes with the option A?

 

[Captante]

I would look for an Asus or MSI Nvidia NForce 3 chipset-based board which is about the fastest skt 939 board with an AGP slot .... you might actually do well on FS/FT by putting up a thread titled "WTB NForce 3 Ultra MB with or without CPU" & post it on that form here on AT & I bet you'll get a lot of offers...as long as you buy from an established member with decent Heatware reviews you should be able to get a great deal over there.

Keep in mind however that the GeForce 6100's integrated video is NOT CLOSE in performance to your current 6800GS, but it would have the advantage of leaving you with the open PCI-E slot for Direct-X 10 mid-range cards coming soon, while with the NForce 3 you'll most likely be out of luck for video card upgrades because AGP is a dead-end.

** Edited for accuracy! **

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: Captante
I would look for an Asus or MSI Nvidia NForce 3 chipset-based board which is about the fastest skt 939 board with an AGP slot .... you might actually do well on FS/FT by putting up a thread titled "WTB NForce 3 Ultra MB with or without CPU" & post it on that form here on AT & I bet you'll get a lot of offers...as long as you buy from an established member with decent Heatware reviews you should be able to get a great deal over there.

Keep in mind however that the GeForce 6100's integrated video is pretty close in performance to your current 6800GS & it would have the advantage of leaving you with the open PCI-E slot for Direct-X 10 mid-range cards coming soon, while with the NForce 3 you'll most likely be out of luck for video card upgrades because AGP is a dead-end.

Huh?

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: Captante
I would look for an Asus or MSI Nvidia NForce 3 chipset-based board which is about the fastest skt 939 board with an AGP slot .... you might actually do well on FS/FT by putting up a thread titled "WTB NForce 3 Ultra MB with or without CPU" & post it on that form here on AT & I bet you'll get a lot of offers...as long as you buy from an established member with decent Heatware reviews you should be able to get a great deal over there.

Keep in mind however that the GeForce 6100's integrated video is pretty close in performance to your current 6800GS & it would have the advantage of leaving you with the open PCI-E slot for Direct-X 10 mid-range cards coming soon, while with the NForce 3 you'll most likely be out of luck for video card upgrades because AGP is a dead-end.

Huh?

Yeah, I realize this was a mistake! ... more like its A LOT slower then a 6800GS in 3D & I wouldn't go for it unless you don't care a lot about gaming it would be better to do the NForce 3 & stick with AGP for now... the 6100 is a decent motherboard for business users & wouldn't be a bad choice overall if the OP sold the 6800GS while it still has value to offset the cost.


Edit: This is my real opinion: *(from post a couple above this)

"(B) If gaming isn't a high priority, you can get an Nvidia GeForce 6100-based MB with pretty decent onboard graphics & a real PCI-E x16 slot for future graphics card upgrades, plus you can use your DDR1."

 

[Desi4Life]

Thanks for the response and the update. I was thinking along the line of, If I have to do an upgrade, it might as well be complete upgrade otherwise, I just buy the bare minimum to get my rig working again and wait it out until I am ready to do a complete overhaul, which I was planning on doing sometime towards the end of this year to early next year (waiting for quad core)

Wondering if anyone know if the A7N8X would support anything higher than athlon xp 2500? I might try to just buy a replacement chip and see if thats where the problem is?

D$L

 

[imported_AndyT]

As long as you have the latest available BIOS on your board, you should be able to put any Athlon XP CPU in that board and be fine.

Can I ask a question? When you installed the new HS did you use thermal paste? What type did you use and how much did you put on? The paste should only go on the raised core of the CPU. I have seen cases where thermal paste got onto the the are below the core and shorted out the components. In many cases cleaning the CPU off real well with acetone will bring it back to life. Also look for cracks in the core. You might have simply cracked it during installation.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Desi4Life
Wondering if anyone know if the A7N8X would support anything higher than athlon xp 2500? I might try to just buy a replacement chip and see if thats where the problem is?

Your board will support any Athlon XP, except for the two that had a 200 Mhz FSB, the 3200 and the 3000. AMD made two different 3000's, though, one with a 200 Mhz FSB and one with a 166 Mhz FSB, so the 166 Mhz 3000's would work. I don't know why you'd pay as much money for a cpu that might fix your problem than you would pay for a cpu that's twice as fast, plus a motherboard for it.

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Desi4Life
Wondering if anyone know if the A7N8X would support anything higher than athlon xp 2500? I might try to just buy a replacement chip and see if thats where the problem is?

Your board will support any Athlon XP, except for the two that had a 200 Mhz FSB, the 3200 and the 3000. AMD made two different 3000's, though, one with a 200 Mhz FSB and one with a 166 Mhz FSB, so the 166 Mhz 3000's would work. I don't know why you'd pay as much money for a cpu that might fix your problem than you would pay for a cpu that's twice as fast, plus a motherboard for it.

Actually the A7N8X will support the 200mhz FSB chips too, unless its one of the very early revision boards... I had 2 of them, 1 running a multiplier-unlocked 2800+ @ 2.4ghz & the second running a 3200+ at default 2.2, both on a 200mhz FSB, however I agree that its nuts to spend more money on an obsolete platform like skt 462 regardless of that because the OP doesn't even know if the CPU is his problem.

 

[Desi4Life]

Originally posted by: Captante

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Desi4Life
Wondering if anyone know if the A7N8X would support anything higher than athlon xp 2500? I might try to just buy a replacement chip and see if thats where the problem is?

Your board will support any Athlon XP, except for the two that had a 200 Mhz FSB, the 3200 and the 3000. AMD made two different 3000's, though, one with a 200 Mhz FSB and one with a 166 Mhz FSB, so the 166 Mhz 3000's would work. I don't know why you'd pay as much money for a cpu that might fix your problem than you would pay for a cpu that's twice as fast, plus a motherboard for it.

Actually the A7N8X will support the 200mhz FSB chips too, unless its one of the very early revision boards... I had 2 of them, 1 running a multiplier-unlocked 2800+ @ 2.4ghz & the second running a 3200+ at default 2.2, both on a 200mhz FSB, however I agree that its nuts to spend more money on an obsolete platform like skt 462 regardless of that because the OP doesn't even know if the CPU is his problem.

Can you suggest a good performing nForce 3 based board? Is there is a review I maybe able to look at for this chipset, searched anandtech and didn't find anything. Also, is this socket 754 or 939? What are my options for CPU?

Thanks

D$L