No one is talking about the real game changer.

[techs]

With all the attention on the Latino vote no on is talking about the real game changer in American politics.

Student loans.

As the cost of a college education has gotten huge the amounts of loans students are taking has also gotten huge. New laws that don't allow even bankruptcy to wipe out these loans have really reshaped students attitudes.

Students are increasingly worried not just how they will meet the payments on these loans, but what will happen if they lose their job for awhile, or get sick, etc. These are young people who eat ramen noodles and scrape together the money for a six pack on a friday night.

These young people understand the need for a safety net. They can actually envision going six months without a job and having the government standing by to garnish their paychecks when they find a job.

The Republican narrative that anyone who gets an education and works hard will have it made in America is laughed at by these students. What they see is years of loan repayments before they can think of buying a new car or a house.

Colleges are also "in the game" now as they are more and more relying on students who have borrowed money. The schools and the students have a common interest in keeping money available for loans and in keeping the cost down so a college education is a good financial decision. Colleges are now actively involved in helping their students vote.

So, as important as the expanding Latino vote is, its the students of America who are now being faced with real world economic and political realities. Perhaps for the first time since the Viet Nam war draft. And this leading people to the party that believes in the social net and believes in education.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

They need to learn there are other less expensive means to get through the first two years and they don't have to attend expensive colleges. If enough people did this colleges would have no choice but to lower their tuition.

 

[Jadow]

the excessive amount of cheap student loans are largely responsible for the skyrocketing cost of tuition.

 

[Doppel]

Londo and jadow are both correct.

 

[ivwshane]

the excessive amount of cheap student loans are largely responsible for the skyrocketing cost of tuition.

So why I'm hearing is that we should be investing in building new schools so that there is more competition and lower prices.

Because I'm sure you aren't saying loan rates should be raised and the amount of students should be shrinked.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

The Republican narrative that anyone who gets an education and works hard will have it made in America is laughed at by these students.

That's not a Republican narrative. It's an American narrative.

The core problem is that college used to be a place you either went to in order to get a job, or you went to because you didn't need a job. Now everyone goes and spends a fortune "following their muse", whether the degree actually helps them get a career or not.

We end up with a surplus of people with useless pieces of paper, while less glamorous jobs in many fields go unfilled.

 

[techs]

That's not a Republican narrative. It's an American narrative.

The core problem is that college used to be a place you either went to in order to get a job, or you went to because you didn't need a job. Now everyone goes and spends a fortune "following their muse", whether the degree actually helps them get a career or not.

We end up with a surplus of people with useless pieces of paper, while less glamorous jobs in many fields go unfilled.

If you got a degree in Computer Science in 2000 you got a great job.
By 2010 your job was in India and you are unemployed.
Accountants, lawyers, even MBA's are walking around unemployed.
So, while we certainly have to many Art Appreciation majors, many people have what they thought were good degrees and are unemployeed. Or, their salaries are now so low they can't afford to pay off their loans.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

If you got a degree in Computer Science in 2000 you got a great job.
By 2010 your job was in India and you are unemployed.

This is not true. Do some research -- there is a huge overhang of unfilled technical jobs here in the US.

Accountants, lawyers, even MBA's are walking around unemployed.

I'm sure some are. There is a glut of lawyers in the country right now. Not sure about accountants. And "MBA" doesn't mean anything by itself -- it depends where it came from and what you do with it.

 

[Darwin333]

With all the attention on the Latino vote no on is talking about the real game changer in American politics.

Student loans.

As the cost of a college education has gotten huge the amounts of loans students are taking has also gotten huge. New laws that don't allow even bankruptcy to wipe out these loans have really reshaped students attitudes.

Students are increasingly worried not just how they will meet the payments on these loans, but what will happen if they lose their job for awhile, or get sick, etc. These are young people who eat ramen noodles and scrape together the money for a six pack on a friday night.

These young people understand the need for a safety net. They can actually envision going six months without a job and having the government standing by to garnish their paychecks when they find a job.

The Republican narrative that anyone who gets an education and works hard will have it made in America is laughed at by these students. What they see is years of loan repayments before they can think of buying a new car or a house.

Colleges are also "in the game" now as they are more and more relying on students who have borrowed money. The schools and the students have a common interest in keeping money available for loans and in keeping the cost down so a college education is a good financial decision. Colleges are now actively involved in helping their students vote.

So, as important as the expanding Latino vote is, its the students of America who are now being faced with real world economic and political realities. Perhaps for the first time since the Viet Nam war draft. And this leading people to the party that believes in the social net and believes in education.

Question: If we didn't have .gov backed loans that are not discharable in bankruptcy, would college education cost nearly as much as it does today? What rational institution would loan obscene amounts of money to someone for a degree that will at best give a person the ability to secure a $30K a year job IF they could file bankruptcy and discharge that debt? If that was the case, what college could charge the amount they do for that degree if no one could get a loan to pay for it?

You almost recognize the problem but you aren't quite there yet.

 

[Chris A]

Big next bubble encouraged by Obama!!! You go guys go too school and get in debt over ur head.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Actually health care is your biggest problem.

Your refusal to adopt a UHC system, which would dramatically reduce healthcare costs, will be your downfall.

Have fun spending 40% of GDP on health.

 

[Darwin333]

So why I'm hearing is that we should be investing in building new schools so that there is more competition and lower prices.

Because I'm sure you aren't saying loan rates should be raised and the amount of students should be shrinked.

You heard that wrong. Why did we have a housing bubble? Because we had absurdly cheap money (loans) that just about anyone with a heartbeat could get regardless of ability to repay. Without that single factor home prices would have never gotten even remotely close to as high as they were.

The cheap and easy money, which unlike the housing bubble you aren't able to get rid of through bankruptcy, is the problem. Without that colleges are forced to reduce the cost of education.

I just wrapped up a construction project of a new dorm at a local state college. This dorm is better than most apartments I have ever lived in, compared to just a decade ago this dorm is a freaking Taj Mahal. Is this a necessity for a good education or a result of the university having a fuckton more money than it is used to? I have absolutely no problem with students living in very luxurious condos while they attend college but should it be built into every students "education" costs or should those that can afford it and chose to pay for it out of their own pockets?

 

[bozack]

betting this will be the next big thing, college tuition reform....

I can't even keep track of people I know with advanced degrees that do nothing for their career while people in the trades make considerably more.

Even fields that traditionally did well as others said aren't any great shakes...will be curious to see with healthcare reform if doctor pay normalizes as well.

Its a double edge....the cost of college and beyond now doesn't seem to balance out, but without a higher degree and not wanting to go into the trades one is seriously limited from an earning standpoint unless they are truly a self starter.

 

[Juror No. 8]

Actually health care is your biggest problem.

Your refusal to adopt a UHC system, which would dramatically reduce healthcare costs, will be your downfall.

Have fun spending 40% of GDP on health.

LOL. Our problem isn't not enough government involvement in the health care industry, it's too much government involvement. As government involvement in the health care industry has increased over the years, so has the price of health care. And that's not just a coincidence.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

LOL. Our problem isn't not enough government involvement in the health care industry, it's too much government involvement. As government involvement in the health care industry has increased over the years, so has the price of health care. And that's not just a coincidence.

And I rest my case. Idiots like you are why the problem will never get fixed.

 

[Juror No. 8]

And I rest my case.

You never had one, other than maybe an unpleasant case of gonorrhea.

 

[boomerang]

With all the attention on the Latino vote no on is talking about the real game changer in American politics.

Student loans.

As the cost of a college education has gotten huge the amounts of loans students are taking has also gotten huge. New laws that don't allow even bankruptcy to wipe out these loans have really reshaped students attitudes.

Students are increasingly worried not just how they will meet the payments on these loans, but what will happen if they lose their job for awhile, or get sick, etc. These are young people who eat ramen noodles and scrape together the money for a six pack on a friday night.

These young people understand the need for a safety net. They can actually envision going six months without a job and having the government standing by to garnish their paychecks when they find a job.

The Republican narrative that anyone who gets an education and works hard will have it made in America is laughed at by these students. What they see is years of loan repayments before they can think of buying a new car or a house.

Colleges are also "in the game" now as they are more and more relying on students who have borrowed money. The schools and the students have a common interest in keeping money available for loans and in keeping the cost down so a college education is a good financial decision. Colleges are now actively involved in helping their students vote.

So, as important as the expanding Latino vote is, its the students of America who are now being faced with real world economic and political realities. Perhaps for the first time since the Viet Nam war draft. And this leading people to the party that believes in the social net and believes in education.

Do you see good reason for people to go into medicine or any field that takes a lot of money, effort and time to achieve? Are the rewards going to make it all worth it?

Do you see incomes rising in our future economy? Do you see employment increasing at a rate that not only keeps up with the growing work force but exceeds it such that the power shifts to those to be employed versus the employer?

What is the plan to make this happen? What was it for the last four years and what is it for the next four years?

You're trying to build an elaborate, ornate structure with no foundation. ​

 

[rudder]

the excessive amount of cheap student loans are largely responsible for the skyrocketing cost of tuition.

This is what most people don't want to believe. But the government pushes everyone to go to college... dumb down standards, easy money for tuition, etc. So now colleges need an infrastructure in place to handle 15,000- 20,000+ students. Not only just class space but nice amenities like recreation centers and such. And instead of a 4 year degree it takes 5 because most students just out of high school spend the first year in remedial classes.

The ones laughing at all this are the plumbers earning $40/hour.

 

[highland145]

The ones laughing at all this are the plumbers earning $85/hour.

fixed.

Bro ia a plumber.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

This is not true. Do some research -- there is a huge overhang of unfilled technical jobs here in the US.

Let him keep believing this is the case, due to my Navy/field experience (no degree) and self taught skills with program logic controllers I'm filling a engineers position and receiving pay that equal to the engineers with the same amount of years experience.

 

[kranky]

Why do students choose to go to expensive schools? Why do parents encourage it? It's a big marketing game and people fall for it. I have friends who work at universities and they tell me the primary focus is on making it more like a resort so students want to come regardless of cost.

Where I attended college just built a new dorm, it's actually an apartment building. When I attended there, the dorm room was one rectangular room with cinderblock walls, and a bathroom/shower down the hall (one for every 8 dorm rooms). In the new dorm, the "apartments" have two people in each room. They are carpeted and air conditioned and each person has his/her own bathroom/shower.

Tuition has gone up far more than the average amount of inflation and it's because of adding amenities and making up new positions for administrators. It's hard to work up much sympathy because few people seem to mind the cost. They just keep borrowing more instead of finding less expensive options.

 

[diesbudt]

The Republican narrative that anyone who gets an education and works hard will have it made in America is laughed at by these students. What they see is years of loan repayments before they can think of buying a new car or a house.

Really?

I just graduated a year ago with $37,000 in debt.

I bought a new car and am 6-12 months from a house...

So my personal story says your wrong.

 

[randomrogue]

This whole premise is stupid.

I took student loans. I paid them off early. Wasn't a big deal and was cheap as dirt debt. My interest rate was 2.25%.

If you're borrowing excessive money like some fools to get a low paying job then you're an idiot. You can do 2 years of community college for your prereqs and it's pretty much free (I made money on it through grants and scholarships) and then transfer to a 4 year university to finish the degree. This makes your bachelors degree cost next to nothing. Alternatively get a full ride from the beginning at a 4 year university. For graduate school get into a program where you get paid or get a job on the side. If you're a dual national do some or all of your education overseas where it can be free.

These morons who borrow a hundred grand or more better have an amazing job lined up. These students who get an expensive education and a liberal arts degree simply didn't think it through and are going to get destroyed financially. They shouldn't have borrowed in the first place.

 

[momeNt]

The government completely decoupled supply of student loans with job prospects. In an effort to not discriminate against people who wanted to pursue either useless degrees or fields without much need for new entrants, they created an enormous loan bubble and a lot of disgruntled recent grads.

Payback risk must have completely escaped them when they designed these loan programs. I suggest they double the numbers on the committee and increase funding and regulations so we can make sure this doesn't happen again.

 

[Exterous]

Why do students choose to go to expensive schools? Why do parents encourage it? It's a big marketing game and people fall for it. I have friends who work at universities and they tell me the primary focus is on making it more like a resort so students want to come regardless of cost.

Where I attended college just built a new dorm, it's actually an apartment building. When I attended there, the dorm room was one rectangular room with cinderblock walls, and a bathroom/shower down the hall (one for every 8 dorm rooms). In the new dorm, the "apartments" have two people in each room. They are carpeted and air conditioned and each person has his/her own bathroom/shower.

Tuition has gone up far more than the average amount of inflation and it's because of adding amenities and making up new positions for administrators. It's hard to work up much sympathy because few people seem to mind the cost. They just keep borrowing more instead of finding less expensive options.

It is a vicious cycle. Parents and students are demanding more and more amenities for their money (If we are going to pay this much I should at least get this and that). So Universities raise tuition more to make those improvements.

Its the same cycle with 'top talent' professors. With all the money flying around they want top facilities and equipment. So tuition goes up again.

That's not a Republican narrative. It's an American narrative.

:thumbsup: I am not seeing much push from either side to reform things

If you got a degree in Computer Science in 2000 you got a great job.
By 2010 your job was in India and you are unemployed.
Accountants, lawyers, even MBA's are walking around unemployed.
So, while we certainly have to many Art Appreciation majors, many people have what they thought were good degrees and are unemployeed. Or, their salaries are now so low they can't afford to pay off their loans.

The unemployment of college graduates is still significantly lower than non-college grads (4.5% vs 9.4%). In fact - jobs requiring college degrees have risen about 2 million since the end of 2007 while non-college requiring jobs are still down about 5.6 million. Bachelor degree holders and above also suffered significantly fewer job losses than Associates and below. I think the unemployment of college grads is overplayed and the numbers seem to support this

http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/CollegeAdvantage.FullReport.081512.pdf

You also have close to 2x the earning rate of a non-college grad so it is still a very viable and attractive financial choice. While I agree that costs are rising too quickly this requires more than a political fix. People need to be educated about the choices they are making and the potential costs involved