No OCing on certain Nehalems??

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: tutelary
I can't even begin to understand the concept of replacing a machine 2 or 3 times a year. What's going to happen in 1.5 years time? I personally have never had a cap leak, and don't know anyone who has had one in 1.5 years time, I don't grasp what you mean by 'on a base level' they aren't as reliable after that period of time.

I believe with the likely huge economic downturn thats coming people had better pick something they are going to be happy with for awhile. The longer you can run a system the better.

you need to go to another forum in that case

Seriously, do you have a "real" job right now, or are you just reading about these things on a message board and msn.com? The economy isn't growing like it has been for the past 7 years, but it is still going unbelievably well. unemployment is still at historically low levels, and unless you're trying to sell or refinance a home you're probably not hurting for money right now.

Even though most of us like the idea of running a system for 3-4 years in theory, in practice it usually just doesn't work out that way. For example, I just upgraded my opteron 180 rig to a Q9450 rig for $300 net out of my pocket. I could have done it for less than $200 with a Q6600. That rig is my file server and could probably have survived for many years to come as it was, but the cheap upgrade cost was just too much for me to resist. With "the economy in ruins" some people will certainly be strained to meet their bills in the coming months and years, but MOST people will just keep doing what we've been doing

 

[tutelary]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

you need to go to another forum in that case

Seriously, do you have a "real" job right now, or are you just reading about these things on a message board and msn.com? The economy isn't growing like it has been for the past 7 years, but it is still going unbelievably well. unemployment is still at historically low levels, and unless you're trying to sell or refinance a home you're probably not hurting for money right now.

Even though most of us like the idea of running a system for 3-4 years in theory, in practice it usually just doesn't work out that way. For example, I just upgraded my opteron 180 rig to a Q9450 rig for $300 net out of my pocket. I could have done it for less than $200 with a Q6600. That rig is my file server and could probably have survived for many years to come as it was, but the cheap upgrade cost was just too much for me to resist. With "the economy in ruins" some people will certainly be strained to meet their bills in the coming months and years, but MOST people will just keep doing what we've been doing

At what point on this forum does a user get to outright insult others, throw a smiley face or two in there and call it a day? Is it a post level thing? Perhaps I will go to another forum if thats the generalized attitude here.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

i still think a Q6600 would spank that phenom's booty.

Only using BEA's JRockit for server loads, and one or two really niche applications.

Anyhow if neha doesnt allow overclocking, then im sticking to yorkfield. Sorry my yorkie at 4.25ghz will spank any neha on stock settings. Sorry, neha is going to be special, but not special enough to take down a yorkie clocked that high at stock.

For stuff you do, sure. There were two things I've come across re: Nehalem that tell me I'm probably getting one whether or not I can OC the bad boy. The biggest reason is SSE will have instructions for *string manipulation*, ostensibly to speed up XML processing.

If they get this right it'll be HUGE and will only take a very minor compiler tweak to make everything from the OS kernel to every app on the system take a giant performance leap. Everything from Java to network transfers to Oracle client calls are going to get faster. This is where I believe the claims of 100% performance gain over core2 are coming from.

String primitives (e.g., strncpy and friends) in OS libraries are on the order of 300 instructions with several pushes of registers to main RAM. Feel free to disassemble one if you don't believe me -- and these calls get executed hundreds of millions of times a day.<orgasm>If I can replace a function call (or nasty inline equivalent) with a single CPU instruction... And if it's atomic and doesn't require concurrency control...</orgasm>

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: tutelary

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

you need to go to another forum in that case

Seriously, do you have a "real" job right now, or are you just reading about these things on a message board and msn.com? The economy isn't growing like it has been for the past 7 years, but it is still going unbelievably well. unemployment is still at historically low levels, and unless you're trying to sell or refinance a home you're probably not hurting for money right now.

Even though most of us like the idea of running a system for 3-4 years in theory, in practice it usually just doesn't work out that way. For example, I just upgraded my opteron 180 rig to a Q9450 rig for $300 net out of my pocket. I could have done it for less than $200 with a Q6600. That rig is my file server and could probably have survived for many years to come as it was, but the cheap upgrade cost was just too much for me to resist. With "the economy in ruins" some people will certainly be strained to meet their bills in the coming months and years, but MOST people will just keep doing what we've been doing

At what point on this forum does a user get to outright insult others, throw a smiley face or two in there and call it a day? Is it a post level thing? Perhaps I will go to another forum if thats the generalized attitude here.

is it an insult to ask if you have a job or not? By your reaction it seems obvious what your answer is. I'm one of the nicer guys here, trying pissing off jag or rollo if you want to get slapped around a little bit. oops, here's your smiley

back on topic:

so v8envy, how are these string manipulation instructions going to help with DC? If I could get some serious DC improvements then I might be persuaded to upgrade my mom's "power user" email rig from the xp2500+ to a nehalem...you can never download emails fast enough!

 

[tutelary]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: tutelary

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

you need to go to another forum in that case

Seriously, do you have a "real" job right now, or are you just reading about these things on a message board and msn.com? The economy isn't growing like it has been for the past 7 years, but it is still going unbelievably well. unemployment is still at historically low levels, and unless you're trying to sell or refinance a home you're probably not hurting for money right now.

Even though most of us like the idea of running a system for 3-4 years in theory, in practice it usually just doesn't work out that way. For example, I just upgraded my opteron 180 rig to a Q9450 rig for $300 net out of my pocket. I could have done it for less than $200 with a Q6600. That rig is my file server and could probably have survived for many years to come as it was, but the cheap upgrade cost was just too much for me to resist. With "the economy in ruins" some people will certainly be strained to meet their bills in the coming months and years, but MOST people will just keep doing what we've been doing

At what point on this forum does a user get to outright insult others, throw a smiley face or two in there and call it a day? Is it a post level thing? Perhaps I will go to another forum if thats the generalized attitude here.

is it an insult to ask if you have a job or not? By your reaction it seems obvious what your answer is. I'm one of the nicer guys here, trying pissing off jag or rollo if you want to get slapped around a little bit. oops, here's your smiley

back on topic:

so v8envy, how are these string manipulation instructions going to help with DC? If I could get some serious DC improvements then I might be persuaded to upgrade my mom's "power user" email rig from the xp2500+ to a nehalem...you can never download emails fast enough!

No, you just came off like a jerk and hey, guess what, you're still a jerk. I have a good job, but I'm not going to blow money on performance I will never use. Part of being an adult is gaining that kind of perspective. When you get to adulthood maybe you'll understand that.
Till then you can just talk crap here and think it makes you big. If you disagree with me thats fine, but you insult me and you can blow it out your ass.


Being a computing enthusiast doesn't mean you have to be an idiot with your money.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: tutelary

No, you just came off like a jerk and hey, guess what, you're still a jerk. I have a good job, but I'm not going to blow money on performance I will never use. Part of being an adult is gaining that kind of perspective. When you get to adulthood maybe you'll understand that.
Till then you can just talk crap here and think it makes you big.

Being a computing enthusiast doesn't mean you have to be an idiot with your money.

Reality check. Computing is a dirt cheap hobby. If you have any other hobbies I could throw just as many stones at them as a 'waste of money', possibly even more so when you consider distributed computing may help to cure cancer or do all sorts of other fun stuff.

Some people are perfectly content to drive a Civic to work and back every day, others prefer an over the top ponycar with a supercharged v8 with soft compound tires which costs 10x as much to operate. Yet a third type of driver spends 10x upfront for a Ferrari 360. All 3 are examples of people I work with (well, ok, one of them is me), and I wouldn't call any of them idiots.

Some people optimize their computer enthusiasm by spending as little as possible. Others go over the top. Neither behavior is idiocy.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: tutelary

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: tutelary

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

you need to go to another forum in that case

Seriously, do you have a "real" job right now, or are you just reading about these things on a message board and msn.com? The economy isn't growing like it has been for the past 7 years, but it is still going unbelievably well. unemployment is still at historically low levels, and unless you're trying to sell or refinance a home you're probably not hurting for money right now.

Even though most of us like the idea of running a system for 3-4 years in theory, in practice it usually just doesn't work out that way. For example, I just upgraded my opteron 180 rig to a Q9450 rig for $300 net out of my pocket. I could have done it for less than $200 with a Q6600. That rig is my file server and could probably have survived for many years to come as it was, but the cheap upgrade cost was just too much for me to resist. With "the economy in ruins" some people will certainly be strained to meet their bills in the coming months and years, but MOST people will just keep doing what we've been doing

At what point on this forum does a user get to outright insult others, throw a smiley face or two in there and call it a day? Is it a post level thing? Perhaps I will go to another forum if thats the generalized attitude here.

is it an insult to ask if you have a job or not? By your reaction it seems obvious what your answer is. I'm one of the nicer guys here, trying pissing off jag or rollo if you want to get slapped around a little bit. oops, here's your smiley

back on topic:

so v8envy, how are these string manipulation instructions going to help with DC? If I could get some serious DC improvements then I might be persuaded to upgrade my mom's "power user" email rig from the xp2500+ to a nehalem...you can never download emails fast enough!

No, you just came off like a jerk and hey, guess what, you're still a jerk. I have a good job, but I'm not going to blow money on performance I will never use. Part of being an adult is gaining that kind of perspective. When you get to adulthood maybe you'll understand that.
Till then you can just talk crap here and think it makes you big.

Being a computing enthusiast doesn't mean you have to be an idiot with your money.

Where exactly did I insult you? I didn't call you a jerk. I didn't imply that you're not an adult. Well, ok, maybe I did do that, but since you are an adult, why don't you think for yourself? How many people do you know who have been laid off in the past 6 months? How many people do you know who have lost their house? I personally don't know a SINGLE PERSON who has lost his job or house. I do know a few people who have changed career fields to maintain or improve their standard of living, but doesn't that happen in good times as well as bad?

$300 to me isn't a lot of money so I don't consider it a burden to get such a cheap upgrade. $1,300 would be a decent chunk of change, however, so if I can get $1,300 worth of performance by overclocking my $300 system then I get a sense of satisfaction about that. You seem to get a sense of satisfaction by making personal attacks at random people with minimal provocation. If you want to call someone an idiot with his money then go find those guys who destroyed their QX9770 with 1.78vcore the other day. Even if I destroy a cpu with too much vcore/heat/etc, it's never more than a $200-$300 item and is easily replaced.

How good can your job be if you're worried about wasting $300? No offense, but if you were making 6 figures and computers were your passion then you wouldn't think twice about spending $300 a MONTH.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: v8envy

Originally posted by: tutelary

No, you just came off like a jerk and hey, guess what, you're still a jerk. I have a good job, but I'm not going to blow money on performance I will never use. Part of being an adult is gaining that kind of perspective. When you get to adulthood maybe you'll understand that.
Till then you can just talk crap here and think it makes you big.

Being a computing enthusiast doesn't mean you have to be an idiot with your money.

Reality check. Computing is a dirt cheap hobby. If you have any other hobbies I could throw just as many stones at them as a 'waste of money', possibly even more so when you consider distributed computing may help to cure cancer or do all sorts of other fun stuff.

Some people are perfectly content to drive a Civic to work and back every day, others prefer an over the top ponycar with a supercharged v8 with soft compound tires which costs 10x as much to operate. Yet a third type of driver spends 10x upfront for a Ferrari 360. All 3 are examples of people I work with (well, ok, one of them is me), and I wouldn't call any of them idiots.

Some people optimize their computer enthusiasm by spending as little as possible. Others go over the top. Neither behavior is idiocy.

good thing you have that mustang in your signature. I was about to accuse you of driving a ferrari!

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995


so v8envy, how are these string manipulation instructions going to help with DC? If I could get some serious DC improvements then I might be persuaded to upgrade my mom's "power user" email rig from the xp2500+ to a nehalem...you can never download emails fast enough!

Unfortunately, I don't see most DC projects benefiting more than a slight bit from this. You'd get far more out of the integrated memory controller and possibly SMT. The 10-15% you quoted previously clock for clock seems to be reasonable. But we won't really know until people get these in their hot little hands and start benchmarking w/ various applications. This could be like the orignal MMX -- the specialized instructions turned out to be slower than traditional implementations.

 

[bryanW1995]

Yeah, I've been extremely curious to check out smt. HT was only about a 10% improvement for DC and runs a LOT hotter, but if smt gets closer to 50-75% then it would be a must for DC systems.

 

[taltamir]

Why is everyone crying? This is the BEST news I have heard in a long time!
AMD is finally getting a break!

If intel is really gonna be as fast as they say with nehalem, the market needs AMD to have any advantage it can get...

 

[Winterpool]

At the risk of this thread becoming a debate on socioeconomics (do some 'cling' to our overclocked machines out of 'bitterness' at our meagre economic prospects?), I'd like to toss in my tuppence on the enthusiasts' hobby. V8envy is correct: this is definitely one of the cheaper hobbies or interests in the Western world. I think my girlfriend spends more on needles and thread for her knitting than I've done on computer kit in the last year. My other primary 'leisure' interest (well, leaving aside the aesthetics of the female form online) is food and wine, and the price of a decent bistro meal for two is considerably more than a Q6600 these days. And computer kit continually improves and gets (relatively) cheaper, whereas 'luxuries' like premier cru Burgundies tend to increase faster than inflation.

Moreover, as with so many other interests, a great proportion of this hobby involves reading about (or watching, etc) others, learning and sometimes envying -- though, for some reason, reading about Aigomorla's Extreme cpus or Markfw900's quads doesn't make me as depressed as reading about, say, wine bars in Manhattan or a holiday in the Dordogne, as these things recede ever further beyond my humble prospects.

I don't know anything about BryanW1995 or Tutelary of course. In my own case, I am financially stressed by, say, $300. I work less than a full week at present but pay two rents (mine and half my girlfriend's) and am having a devil of a time getting a proper job, literally an 'entry' position in to IT (yep, that ever contentious growing / shrinking sector). My crappy crap job history and meagre income compelled me to wait an extra three years before upgrading from an Athlon XP (I essentially skipped the Athlon 64 and 'Prescott' generation).

I know enough history to agree with Bryan that, at least compared to the 1970s and early '80s, we have it pretty good still, but a strained economy will make it all the less likely that a firm will take a chance on a sorry blighter like me. Who knows when next I'll be able to afford an upgrade from my new Wolfdale? This thread and others have suggested Nehalem will not be price-performance friendly to budget enthusiasts like myself.

Some of us must (and do) choose our parts very very carefully, and with an eye to the future.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Winterpool
Some of us must (and do) choose our parts very very carefully, and with an eye to the future.

This is precisely why I chose to pay a little less than $200 for my X2 processor for my aging 939 socket a year and a half ago. If you look at what it would have cost me to go to a core2duo (Around $600 for RAM, Mother Board and CPU.) at the time, I got an incredible deal.

Sure, I could have bought a cheaper C2D and done the upgrade for $450 to $500 at the time, but would have been moving sideways performance wise. Since I now prefer to stay with stock speeds, this would have been a poor investment. By just buying a X2, I am getting 2-3 more years of use out of this system.

In the mean time, I have upgraded other components that have given me more performance per dollar, like a faster hard drive and a new video card (9600GT). This system will play almost any game on the market at relatively high settings. (OK, it might have some troubles with Crysis. But what hardware really handles Crysis well?) I still have a monitor with a 1280 x 1024 resolution, so I am still getting a great experience out of this system.

The performance of this system is so good, I will probably wait until Nehalem becomes mainstream before upgrading the CPU, motherboard and memory, and then will repeat this process all over again.

 

[Jax Omen]

You'll also struggle with SupCom and maybe Lost Planet. That's about it, though. Definitely wait for Nehalem to go mainstream before upgrading the platform.

 

[superstition]

Originally posted by: Jax Omen
Of course it's not real. Doesn't mean Symantec doesn't suck balls.

Or that sucking balls has anything to do with it.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Why is everyone crying? This is the BEST news I have heard in a long time!
AMD is finally getting a break!

If intel is really gonna be as fast as they say with nehalem, the market needs AMD to have any advantage it can get...

Doesn't change the fact that AMD, without a bailout; is headed for very troubled waters.

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: v8envy
Intel has never 'supported' overclocking. Just look at their boards. It's up to the usual suspects selling mainboards to figure out how to best OC Intel's products and then charge us a premium for the privilege.

afaik its more of a wink wink affair. there is a group that interfaces with the mobo people and makes sure they have the correct options available for overclocking. if the report is true, that group would not be around, but they're still working last time i checked.

also, i really don't see a reason why LGA1160 will "locked" or whatever that article claims. LGA1160 is consumer socket, which includes the enthusiast market, they don't need three links. im sure there will be boards with the required knobs for overclocking.

 

[aigomorla]

tutelary and bryanW1995

I ask you guys to step back, take a deep breathe before you guys post anything else to each other.

The next time a mod writes something to you guys, its gonna be mark.

And this isnt a flame war or pissing contest. We dont know for sure 100% if they can'd overclocking or not.

Most likely they didn't because they would kill all the other board manufactors.


Anyhow lets continue in a civilized manner, so mark doesnt have to bust out the locking stick!

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: tutelary
I can't even begin to understand the concept of replacing a machine 2 or 3 times a year. What's going to happen in 1.5 years time? I personally have never had a cap leak, and don't know anyone who has had one in 1.5 years time, I don't grasp what you mean by 'on a base level' they aren't as reliable after that period of time.

I believe with the likely huge economic downturn thats coming people had better pick something they are going to be happy with for awhile. The longer you can run a system the better.

you need to go to another forum in that case

Seriously, do you have a "real" job right now, or are you just reading about these things on a message board and msn.com? The economy isn't growing like it has been for the past 7 years, but it is still going unbelievably well. unemployment is still at historically low levels, and unless you're trying to sell or refinance a home you're probably not hurting for money right now.

Even though most of us like the idea of running a system for 3-4 years in theory, in practice it usually just doesn't work out that way. For example, I just upgraded my opteron 180 rig to a Q9450 rig for $300 net out of my pocket. I could have done it for less than $200 with a Q6600. That rig is my file server and could probably have survived for many years to come as it was, but the cheap upgrade cost was just too much for me to resist. With "the economy in ruins" some people will certainly be strained to meet their bills in the coming months and years, but MOST people will just keep doing what we've been doing

Yeah, right :roll:

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Turkish


Yeah, right :roll:

Now take the same graph, and go from 1970 until today. You'll see that outside the dotcom and y2k insanity of 1998-2001 we're about as low on the unemployment curve as we've been in many decades. 5% is what the department of labor considers 'full employment' and going below 4 is seen as highly inflationary and in fact a bad thing.

Now, the trend UP in unemployment is definitely there. The magnitude of the trend is not as large as 01-04 though. Overall I don't think you can read trouble into that graph -- yet.

 

[bryanW1995]

Ok, aigo, it appears that tutelary got your hint. He went to my personal website and sent me a message. What he didn't know is that my WIFE is the only person who uses that site. Check out the email I just got:


Donna W to me
show details 9:08 AM (4 hours ago) Reply


Someone sent this through the contact form on our family website. Do you know anything about it? If it's a joke, it's not funny. If it's serious, then I think I should pull the site down, password protect our pictures and just send the password to our family and friends. Thoughts?





> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:07:04 -0400
> From: the_form_robot@angelfire.com
> To: hello@xxx.com
> Subject: Results From Your Form
>
> (Do not reply to this e-mail. It was generated by
> the Angelfire servers.)
>
> The following data was submitted via your form:
>
> visitor_name: f*** you
> email: f***you@f***you.com
> often: just this once
> comments: Keep thinking you can talk shit to people on the net like they are somehow subserviant to you, asshole. You're a f***ing shaved head troll with an ugly bitch wife and even uglier kids.
>
>

Not sure what I did to deserve that. btw, the visitor name and email were edited for the pg-13 members of our audience. Tutelary, that was a pretty brave move to anonymously send a nasty message like that. I thought you claimed to be an adult...

oh, and by the way, I happen to think that my wife and 2 daughters are pretty cute. Why don't you pm me if you want to have a further discussion?

 

[Jax Omen]

lol, you should either unedit the visitor name and email in your post, or edit all the swearing in the message contents.

Looks like you hurt his feelings, Bryan.

 

[bryanW1995]

sorry, you're right. took out the lingernig f***. Kids these days just think that they can hide behind their computers and hurl insults at people with no consequences. Unfortunately, as the saying goes, bad things usually happen to bad people.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Ok, aigo, it appears that tutelary got your hint. He went to my personal website and sent me a message. What he didn't know is that my WIFE is the only person who uses that site. Check out the email I just got:

That's just so sad if it is really him. Looks like you got yourself an admirer there. Let him down gently, you're probably his first man-crush.

 

[Turkish]

how did he find the url of your family site?