No nvidia chipsets for Nehalem?

[aigomorla]

I was actually waiting for someone like IDC to post this.

I Dont know if you guys been keeping up with this, but According to rumors intel got pissed and just screwed nvidia.

So, this could mean 2 things.

1. neha will have no sli support
2. Neha will have both sli and xfire support.

:T

"Despite the fact that Nvidia has a license, Intel simply decided to cut Nvidia off. Intel is playing dirty, as Nvidia is the only company that has something that Intel really wants and cannot get."

http://www.fudzilla.com/index....=view&id=7713&Itemid=1

I know its fudzilla, but ive been hearing this rumor for quite some time now.


Personally i think its about time and with all the other intel litigations, i dont think they give a crap anymore.

I hope nvidia gives up SLI and we get intel chipsets with SLI support on non 500-600 dollar boards. IE, Skulltrail.


*sigh*

if this is true, looks like freya will be the last of her line. :\
And the 4870X2's are looking even more better then the 280GTX i was thinkn about.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Intel isn't playing dirty -

They said "can we have SLI?" and nvidia said "no"
Nvidia said "can we have a Quickpath licence" and intel said "no"

Remember nvidias license is for FSB boards not quickpath.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Intel isn't playing dirty -

They said "can we have SLI?" and nvidia said "no"
Nvidia said "can we have a Quickpath licence" and intel said "no"

Remember nvidias license is for FSB boards not quickpath.

LOL


yup.

Which is why i been saying, nvidia has been pushing there luck.
Its not nice to poke a sleeping ogre.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Even on skull trail intel does not have an SLI licence, Nvidia told them to buy N100 chips which enable SLI through the drivers.

 

[AmberClad]

Yep, NV's CEO and other higher ups have been going off on an anti-Intel rant every few weeks for the past several months now, and this is one of the latest developments in the whole saga. The most recent development is probably AMD's decision to go with Intel's Havok engine for physics.

I suppose it's an interesting chapter in the whole Intel vs NV spat, but in practice, I don't know that it'll really affect that many consumers. You can still Crossfire with Nehalem, and of course single cards from both companies work fine. That includes SLI-on-a-stick cards, btw, like the 9800 GX2, which was being used on a Nehalem demo rig during Computex to play Assassin's Creed with. So this would only really affect the tiny percentage of people who use multiple discrete cards in SLI.

Interesting that it's gotten to the point where Intel apparently loves DAAMIT more than NV. I think this all started with Intel's announcement of Larrabee, which NV considers a threat...however remote the possibility it might be that Intel might magically come up with a graphics accelerator that doesn't suck...

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
So this would only really affect the tiny percentage of people who use multiple discrete cards in SLI.

small percentage, yes, however i have 4 systems that fall in that catigory. :X

2 which dont matter, xfire / spider rig. 2 sli systems tho :[

 

[AmberClad]

Yeah, I agree that it'd be great if NV conceded the SLI license to Intel. I'm not sure how likely that's going to be . What if the NV CEO turns out to be as stubborn as Yahoo's. The guy has a major case of epeen, if you ask me.

 

[Lonyo]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/c...essor_Bus_License.html

Intel stressed that SLI allowance for Intel chipsets is not something that the chipmaker was asking for to grant Quick Path interconnect (QPI) license to Nvidia.

?We are not seeking any SLI concession from Nvidia in exchange for granting any Nehalem license rights to Nvidia,? a statement by Intel reads.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/c...essor_Bus_License.html

Intel stressed that SLI allowance for Intel chipsets is not something that the chipmaker was asking for to grant Quick Path interconnect (QPI) license to Nvidia.

?We are not seeking any SLI concession from Nvidia in exchange for granting any Nehalem license rights to Nvidia,? a statement by Intel reads.

well, that just screws SLI on Neha entirely then.

Sorry on neha with xfire its gonna be much greater then any single slot card option nvidia can dish, unless they figure out a way to stack 3 cards on tri sli on 1 slot.

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/c...essor_Bus_License.html

Intel stressed that SLI allowance for Intel chipsets is not something that the chipmaker was asking for to grant Quick Path interconnect (QPI) license to Nvidia.

?We are not seeking any SLI concession from Nvidia in exchange for granting any Nehalem license rights to Nvidia,? a statement by Intel reads.

..."But if they decide to grant us the SLI license, that'd be great.", and whatever issues came up during the QPI negotiations would be magically resolved, or something like that .

I don't take anything Intel (or anyone else in this industry, for that matter) says at its face value. Remember back when AMD denied that it was laying off a sizable chunk of its workforce? Something along the lines of "we have not conducted any layoffs.", not we "will" not.

 

[jones377]

Is Nvidia designing a QPI chipset already? I imagine Intel won't release the specs for QPI until the licencing issue is resolved and this would mean longer time to market for Nvidia the longer this drags out.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
I was actually waiting for someone like IDC to post this.

Seemed more like Video and Graphics thread topic which is why I left the subject material to the authorities to report on. Glad to see it here in CPU forum though, I was hoping there'd be some dialogue on it

As a consumer I do find it an interesting escalation in the current "cold war" between Intel and Nvidia.

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Yep, NV's CEO and other higher ups have been going off on an anti-Intel rant every few weeks for the past several months now, and this is one of the latest developments in the whole saga. The most recent development is probably AMD's decision to go with Intel's Havok engine for physics.

I suspect the chronology of events is probably the other way around.

NV had to know a long long time ago that Intel was not going to grant them a license at a price NV was willing to pay. Surely Nehalem chipsets were under design a year ago, tapeouts had to happen many months ago in preparation of having first silicon before the first Nehalems came out of the fab. NV knew long ago they weren't going to be allowed to plau.

Just as Intel had to know a long long time before Skulltrail came to market that NV was not willing to license them SLi at a price Intel was willing to pay.

Subsequently we witnessed Intel and NV slinging mud at each other in the public venues.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: aigomorla
I was actually waiting for someone like IDC to post this.

Seemed more like Video and Graphics thread topic which is why I left the subject material to the authorities to report on. Glad to see it here in CPU forum though, I was hoping there'd be some dialogue on it

true, but nvidia does make chipsets, which does involve overclocking which means NO SLI overclocked rig for Neha.

All ties into CPU's.

 

[unr3al]

What would be nice, is if Intel and AMD started working together to improve, rather than try to anihilate each other all the time. But I guess thats what competition is. I am just a little bit afraid for nVidia, having owned two nVidia cards myself and being very happy with them (MX440 64MB; FX5900XT 128MB, 256-bit) it would be sad if we lost one of the strongest opponents in the graphics market. Unless Intel did something phenomenal concerning graphics (I look at GMA3000 and say ugh how can they...) it would be a sad day indeed for us gamers if there was no competition. Good for AMD, but baaad for development. Without competition, there will be horribly slow progress.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: unr3al
What would be nice, is if Intel and AMD started working together to improve, rather than try to anihilate each other all the time. But I guess thats what competition is. I am just a little bit afraid for nVidia, having owned two nVidia cards myself and being very happy with them (MX440 64MB; FX5900XT 128MB, 256-bit) it would be sad if we lost one of the strongest opponents in the graphics market. Unless Intel did something phenomenal concerning graphics (I look at GMA3000 and say ugh how can they...) it would be a sad day indeed for us gamers if there was no competition. Good for AMD, but baaad for development. Without competition, there will be horribly slow progress.

Actually you might not be entirely right.
If NV loses lets say 60% marketshare from losing its SLI on Intel option, they might have to increase the pace of development of single card solutions, rather than relying on SLI to give large improvements in performance.
NV not getting a Nehalem QPI license doesn't mean they will stop making graphics chips, just that they won't make Intel chipsets, and so lose some revenue. It might make them work harder to maintain a lead in graphics cards and be less reliant on SLI.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
If NV loses lets say 60% marketshare from losing its SLI on Intel option, they might have to increase the pace of development of single card solutions, rather than relying on SLI to give large improvements in performance.
NV not getting a Nehalem QPI license doesn't mean they will stop making graphics chips, just that they won't make Intel chipsets, and so lose some revenue. It might make them work harder to maintain a lead in graphics cards and be less reliant on SLI.

For me, a non-SLI person, I actually shout a tiny "hooray" inside when I read this.

I have never been a fan of SLI (nor xfire) as there is just no substitute for improving the hardware's capability.

 

[bryanW1995]

I think that they will get their differences worked out. They both have a strong incentive to play nicely together: ie, $$$. Nehalem is going to cost both arms, both legs, and, um, maybe some other random appendages for the first year that it's available. Who's going to buy that kind of hardware? Enthusiasts. If said enthusiasts can't run their gtx 280's on a nehalem, they'll either keep their 9650 a while longer or they'll start sniffing around the amd camp. This isn't like 2-3 years ago when it would have been easy to simply shut out nvidia, daamit is simply not competitive in the high end currently. after 4870x2 comes out, daamit will STILL not be competitive with a gtx 280 in sli. intel wants to have sli on the skulltrail-equivalent mobo and nvidia wants to make nehalem chipsets, they'll work it out eventually.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I think that they will get their differences worked out. They both have a strong incentive to play nicely together: ie, $$$. Nehalem is going to cost both arms, both legs, and, um, maybe some other random appendages for the first year that it's available. Who's going to buy that kind of hardware? Enthusiasts. If said enthusiasts can't run their gtx 280's on a nehalem, they'll either keep their 9650 a while longer or they'll start sniffing around the amd camp. This isn't like 2-3 years ago when it would have been easy to simply shut out nvidia, daamit is simply not competitive in the high end currently. after 4870x2 comes out, daamit will STILL not be competitive with a gtx 280 in sli. intel wants to have sli on the skulltrail-equivalent mobo and nvidia wants to make nehalem chipsets, they'll work it out eventually.

It may speak to just how strongly performing Intel knows their Larrabee is (surely they already know if its a dud or not) and they are seriously doubting that folks will be compelled to migrate from a Nehalem + Larrabee system to Deneb + SLi GT280 system.

 

[Scotteq]

Almost a foregone conclusion. And quite frankly, it is my humble opinion that nVidia did it to themselves with all the garbage their CEO and others have been spewing. Granted, Intel are clearly using this to drive nVidia to the table and that isn't necessarly playing nice. But it is also unreasonable to expect that the people who's collective faces you have been spitting in turn around and make even a token effort to help.

 

[jgigz]

Anyone else think that by Intel doing this it could potentially mean that Larrabee is going really well and Intel will be able to work up its own multi-GPU solution?

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3334&p=22

There's another very important aspect of GT200 that's worth considering: a die-shrunk, higher clocked version of GT200 will eventually compete with Intel's Larrabee GPU. The GT200 is big enough that it could easily smuggle a Penryn into your system without you noticing, which despite being hilarious also highlights a very important point: NVIDIA could easily toss a high performance general purpose sequential microprocessor on its GPUs if it wanted to. At the same time, if NVIDIA can build a 1.4 billion transistor chip that's nearly 6x the size of Penryn, so can Intel - the difference being that Intel already has the high performance, general purpose, sequential microprocessor that it could integrate alongside a highly parallel GPU workhorse. While Intel has remained relatively quiet on Larrabee as of late, NVIDIA's increased aggressiveness towards its Santa Clara neighbors is making more sense every day.

We already know that Larrabee will be built on Intel's 45nm process, but given the level of performance it will have to compete with, it wouldn't be too far fetched for Larrabee to be Intel's first 1 - 2 billion transistor microprocessor for use in a desktop machine (Nehalem is only 781M transistors).

 

[toadeater]

Nvidia, AMD are going to beat Intel. Nehalem is going to have trouble becoming popular and influencing the desktop market.

1. Intel needs game physics to be done on the CPU for anyone to care. Nvidia and AMD want it on the GPU, they hold all the cards so far.
2. Hybrid SLI/Crossfire means you can use a cheap secondary GPU for physics and co-processing.
3. GPU co-processing is going to speed up many tasks tremendously. Apple is adding native support for this to OS X, Windows will get similar eventually.
4. Nehalem won't drastically speed up everyday tasks and games. Consumers are going to ask "WTF?"
5. Nehalem is expensive and proprietary. Consumers are going to say "It doesn't fit in my 775 board."
6. 775 socket FSB-based CPUs still have room left for improvement, and are more than fast enough for most users!

Nehalem is the right thing for Intel to do, they should have gotten rid of FSB clocking long ago as AMD did, but Intel may have waited a bit too long to do it. There isn't really anything out there for consumers, gamers, and business users that requires significantly more powerful CPUs. The bottleneck is slow storage and lack of RAM. For games, the GPU will continue to be far more important than the CPU, in part because games will be even more console-centric in the future.

 

[jgigz]

I never really payed much attention to the GPU scene other than what card was best bang for your buck, but hasn't the GPU scene been quite stagnate for some time in the sense that all we're getting are dye shrinks and added SP's and transistors? Is Larrabee a re-work of the architecure of the actual GPU or could we see huge improvements if AMD or NVIDIA were to come up with a new GPU architecture? Or am I just really misinformed on this subject?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: toadeater
Nvidia, AMD are going to beat Intel. Nehalem is going to have trouble becoming popular and influencing the desktop market.

1. Intel needs game physics to be done on the CPU for anyone to care. Nvidia and AMD want it on the GPU, they hold all the cards so far.
2. Hybrid SLI/Crossfire means you can use a cheap secondary GPU for physics and co-processing.
3. GPU co-processing is going to speed up many tasks tremendously. Apple is adding native support for this to OS X, Windows will get similar eventually.
4. Nehalem won't drastically speed up everyday tasks and games. Consumers are going to ask "WTF?"
5. Nehalem is expensive and proprietary. Consumers are going to say "It doesn't fit in my 775 board."
6. 775 socket FSB-based CPUs still have room left for improvement, and are more than fast enough for most users!

Nehalem is the right thing for Intel to do, they should have gotten rid of FSB clocking long ago as AMD did, but Intel may have waited a bit too long to do it. There isn't really anything out there for consumers, gamers, and business users that requires significantly more powerful CPUs. The bottleneck is slow storage and lack of RAM. For games, the GPU will continue to be far more important than the CPU, in part because games will be even more console-centric in the future.

No i for one am glad we wont be seeing ANY JUNK NVIDIA boards on the next gen platform. Sorry NVIDIA killed it uber max for me on lga775. If SLI wasnt so powerful for single monitor setups, i would of forgone SLI completely.

I'll be on a Neha platform, with Xfire. And kiss NVidia bye bye.

But like everyone is saying, Nvidia was seriously asking for it.

And ATI Xfire isnt nixed out of neha.


Also wanna bet a Full blown Neha rig with Xfire will stomp a Full blown AMD rig with SLI. Of course overclocking included, and ignoring budget, however the sli cards alone will probably cost almost 2/3rd of the neha rig price.

Nvidia aint cheap, even on AMD side.


About console's being kings for games, i think only up to a certain age.
The true gamer bring out the high class uber clocked computers just so they can pray to get average 45-50fps on cyrsis with max settings. LOL...

I wanna see how it does on the PS3. I dont hold much hopes for it, cuz the PS3 engine is suposed to be a 7900 class. And 8800 classes own them, yet still have problems playing that game.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: toadeater
Nvidia, AMD are going to beat Intel. Nehalem is going to have trouble becoming popular and influencing the desktop market.

1. Intel needs game physics to be done on the CPU for anyone to care. Nvidia and AMD want it on the GPU, they hold all the cards so far.
2. Hybrid SLI/Crossfire means you can use a cheap secondary GPU for physics and co-processing.
3. GPU co-processing is going to speed up many tasks tremendously. Apple is adding native support for this to OS X, Windows will get similar eventually.
4. Nehalem won't drastically speed up everyday tasks and games. Consumers are going to ask "WTF?"
5. Nehalem is expensive and proprietary. Consumers are going to say "It doesn't fit in my 775 board."
6. 775 socket FSB-based CPUs still have room left for improvement, and are more than fast enough for most users!

Nehalem is the right thing for Intel to do, they should have gotten rid of FSB clocking long ago as AMD did, but Intel may have waited a bit too long to do it. There isn't really anything out there for consumers, gamers, and business users that requires significantly more powerful CPUs. The bottleneck is slow storage and lack of RAM. For games, the GPU will continue to be far more important than the CPU, in part because games will be even more console-centric in the future.

1. I hardly see how AMD and NV hold all the cards in terms of physics. You do know that Intel bought Havok, right? NV and Intel hold the physics cards by virtue of controlling the two big middleware providers. MS may hold some cards if they make physics part of a DirectX spec, but that won't happen for a while.

2. That's what they've been talking about for 2 years now (rumours of the Forceware 90 drivers supporting physics on a second card were around in May 2006), and NV just announced they were in fact putting physics on the GPU itself (GTX 260/280) instead of using a separate card.

3. Agreed, assuming it gets implemented in a way which supports both AMD and NV, which would probably require MS intervention for Windows, although Apple are trying to do it (with their own stuff) for OSX.

4. You're not (IMO) going to speed up everyday tasks with a GPU which you can't also speed up with Nehalem etc. I don't see how you can argue that GPU's are going to be the way of the future because they can speed up specific tasks, and then claim Nehalem isn't good because it can do those same things upon release without needing extra coding.

5. Nehalem won't be expensive forever. Also, newer Core 2 processors don't fit in old 775 boards due to chipset issues. We've made transitions before, many times, from one socket to another. This is nothing new or troubling, and for sure won't have any impact on the general population who buy pre-built systems (the 775 issue, not the price one).

6. I'm not sure what you're tying to get at here. As I said in (5), socket isn't everything. If Intel make improvements that aren't supported by older chipsets (which some surely will), then you're out of luck on your old 775 board anyway!
Also don't forget that we are moving to DDR3, which older boards won't support either (I know, I know, we're at least 12 months away from parity between price or shipments in all probability, but we're also probably 9+ months from mainstream Nehalem).
Things will always be fast enough for most users, but that doesn't mean they aren't allowed to get faster.


You seem to be mixing markets. On one hand you complain about price and users won't want to upgrade, or they are fine with what they have, then you talk about another market, the enthusiasts or specialised groups who might make use of GPGPU features. The group who want GPGPU will also want Nehalem, and the group who don't need Nehalem also don't need GPGPU.
There are always things which need more power, always, and Intel are trying to address other problems such as slow storage with their own SSD drives, and desktop enthusiast Nehalem supports more RAM (triple channel, 6 slots) than most current desktop systems as well.

 

[aigomorla]

very nicely said Lonyo.

You should also tell him enterprise sales tople consumer sales, probably in a ratio 1:10.

meaning every dollar they sell on consumer, they sold 10 on enterprise.

So personally intel couldnt care less about the consumer side as long as there enterprise was still top.

And neha will obliterate the enterprise side.