No need to count dead Iraqi civilians b/c we didn't mean to kill them

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

I'm noticing a pattern with you Bush-haters. As long as there is some kind of snipe agaist Bush, WMD, Iraq, 2000 Election, etc. you are happy. Is that some kind of security blanket? Do you go to bed at night saying "good night, honey. Where's the WMD?"

Not to hijack my own thread . . . but didn't Bush "sell" his war by sending people to bed at night with the thought, "my God, Honey . . . we must stop Saddam, Al Qaeda, and their WMD!?"

Not me and I think not a lot of people, judging from the polls I've seen about support for the war and not caring about whether WMDs are found or not.

Personally, I thought going after Saddam would help in the WoT, because Saddam encourages terrorism by providing $10k checks to suicide bomber's families in Palestine. Stopping him is a step in the GLOBAL WoT. I am disappointed they haven't found the WMDs and Bush will have to deal with that issue pretty soon, but it's not only about WMDs.

Just want to jump in here and ask a quick question. Isn't it true that S. Arabia and Qatar also cut checks for the suicide bomber's families?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: miguel

Just so I have a complete picture: What exactly is Bush's big plan? Give me specifics of what you think he is trying to accomplish.

From the get go it was to Invade and occupy Iraq and set up a Pro American Government there, even before the 9/11 attacks. 9/11 just helped them accomplish this goal a lot easier using the fear and outrage over the attacks to sell it

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

I'm noticing a pattern with you Bush-haters. As long as there is some kind of snipe agaist Bush, WMD, Iraq, 2000 Election, etc. you are happy. Is that some kind of security blanket? Do you go to bed at night saying "good night, honey. Where's the WMD?"

Not to hijack my own thread . . . but didn't Bush "sell" his war by sending people to bed at night with the thought, "my God, Honey . . . we must stop Saddam, Al Qaeda, and their WMD!?"

Not me and I think not a lot of people, judging from the polls I've seen about support for the war and not caring about whether WMDs are found or not.

Personally, I thought going after Saddam would help in the WoT, because Saddam encourages terrorism by providing $10k checks to suicide bomber's families in Palestine. Stopping him is a step in the GLOBAL WoT. I am disappointed they haven't found the WMDs and Bush will have to deal with that issue pretty soon, but it's not only about WMDs.

Just want to jump in here and ask a quick question. Isn't it true that S. Arabia and Qatar also cut checks for the suicide bomber's families?

Not to mention that most of the Terrorist on the Planes were Saudi's

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

I'm noticing a pattern with you Bush-haters. As long as there is some kind of snipe agaist Bush, WMD, Iraq, 2000 Election, etc. you are happy. Is that some kind of security blanket? Do you go to bed at night saying "good night, honey. Where's the WMD?"

Not to hijack my own thread . . . but didn't Bush "sell" his war by sending people to bed at night with the thought, "my God, Honey . . . we must stop Saddam, Al Qaeda, and their WMD!?"

Not me and I think not a lot of people, judging from the polls I've seen about support for the war and not caring about whether WMDs are found or not.

Personally, I thought going after Saddam would help in the WoT, because Saddam encourages terrorism by providing $10k checks to suicide bomber's families in Palestine. Stopping him is a step in the GLOBAL WoT. I am disappointed they haven't found the WMDs and Bush will have to deal with that issue pretty soon, but it's not only about WMDs.

I thought the war on terror was specifically targeted on terrorism against American. So you are saying American should now get involved and deal with terrorism in other countries, like Palestine, Chechnya, maybe Ireland or Africa? Yeah, let's go after everyone who support those so called terrorists even if they got nothing to do with America.

I guess there will always be people who doesn't care if the reason (that is WMD for those people with short term memory) for this war turn out to be true and justified or not. Of course, why should they, they are not the one on the battle field, not the one getting shot at, not the one dealing with daily suicide attacks/ambushes, not the one with family member blown to pieces, heck they probably don't even pay the tax that supported this war and the all the nation building.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

So Miguel, you still have not answered the question: Was this war started based on lies and deception or not?
Simple question.

 

[miguel]

I think it's too early to tell if it was a lie or not. Also, if it turns out no WMD can be found, then it's a matter of finding out if they knew there was none and said there was or they thought there were but turned out to be wrong.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: rchiu

I thought the war on terror was specifically targeted on terrorism against American. So you are saying American should now get involved and deal with terrorism in other countries, like Palestine, Chechnya, maybe Ireland or Africa? Yeah, let's go after everyone who support those so called terrorists even if they got nothing to do with America.

Global War on Terror

I guess there will always be people who doesn't care if the reason (that is WMD for those people with short term memory) for this war turn out to be true and justified or not. Of course, why should they, they are not the one on the battle field, not the one getting shot at, not the one dealing with daily suicide attacks/ambushes, not the one with family member blown to pieces, heck they probably don't even pay the tax that supported this war and the all the nation building.

Wow, what presumptions.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: miguel
I think it's too early to tell if it was a lie or not. Also, if it turns out no WMD can be found, then it's a matter of finding out if they knew there was none and said there was or they thought there were but turned out to be wrong.

A 2-parter Ari...I mean Miguel.

If, and this is a very big if, it's ever found out that our president and his administration did indeed mislead us and lie to us about WMD in order to garner the needed support for this war, do think it would, or should, have an effect on the opinion of those who've stated that they don't care either way about WMD...in regards to their support of the war?

And my other question...you (and scores of others) have stated that SH's payment to the suicide bomber's families is a justification to oust him. Would you, on the basis of these payments, support the ousting of the governmants of SA, Qatar, and any others there were?

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: miguel
I think it's too early to tell if it was a lie or not. Also, if it turns out no WMD can be found, then it's a matter of finding out if they knew there was none and said there was or they thought there were but turned out to be wrong.

A 2-parter Ari...I mean Miguel.

If, and this is a very big if, it's ever found out that our president and his administration did indeed mislead us and lie to us about WMD in order to garner the needed support for this war, do think it would, or should, have an effect on the opinion of those who've stated that they don't care either way about WMD...in regards to their support of the war?

it would not affect my position on the war, but I would hope that Bush or whoever did the lying would be punished for it.

And my other question...you (and scores of others) have stated that SH's payment to the suicide bomber's families is a justification to oust him. Would you, on the basis of these payments, support the ousting of the governmants of SA, Qatar, and any others there were?

Yes, if they refused to stop supporting terrorists.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: miguel
I think it's too early to tell if it was a lie or not. Also, if it turns out no WMD can be found, then it's a matter of finding out if they knew there was none and said there was or they thought there were but turned out to be wrong.

A 2-parter Ari...I mean Miguel.

If, and this is a very big if, it's ever found out that our president and his administration did indeed mislead us and lie to us about WMD in order to garner the needed support for this war, do think it would, or should, have an effect on the opinion of those who've stated that they don't care either way about WMD...in regards to their support of the war?

it would not affect my position on the war, but I would hope that Bush or whoever did the lying would be punished for it.

Why didn't they (Bush and the Neocons) just sell this war to the American Public based on the merits you claim that justifies it? Do you think it's because they wouldn't have garnered the support they needed to wage their "Excellent Adventure?"

[

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why didn't they (Bush and the Neocons) just sell this war to the American Public based on the merits you claim that justifies it? Do you think it's because they wouldn't have garnered the support they needed to wage their "Excellent Adventure?"

It's certainly a possibility, but I have not seen proof either way. Another possibility of equal merit is that they really thought SH had WMDs and was ready to give weapons to terrorists.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why didn't they (Bush and the Neocons) just sell this war to the American Public based on the merits you claim that justifies it? Do you think it's because they wouldn't have garnered the support they needed to wage their "Excellent Adventure?"

It's certainly a possibility, but I have not seen proof either way. Another possibility of equal merit is that they really thought SH had WMDs and was ready to give weapons to terrorists.

I'll grant you that, but if you are going to wage a Major Military Operation that will cost the lives of scores of our Servicemen along with innocent civilians, I would think that it would be of the utmost importance to make sure that your Intel is dead on or at least 90% accurate. Being horribly mistaken isn't much better than being untruthful. Deceit or incompetence should not play a part in such a monumental decision/action.

That said, if they do indeed find vast caches of WMD?s and verifiable proof that Al Qaeda had close ties to Iraq (as in Iraq supporting them) then I will say I am wrong. Hell when I thought that's what we were going over there for I supported the Military action.

 

[Gaard]

03/14/2003
Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction and that is the core of the issue. They have not disarmed.


07/14/2003
But this administration has already dealt with the threat that comes from Saddam Hussein's possession of weapons of mass destruction, which, after all, is what this was all about.


04/10/2003
But make no mistake -- as I said earlier -- we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about.

 

[preslove]

If the war trully was about WMD's then the bushies would have let the inspectors finish their work. But then the heads of the inspectors weren't being so cooperative and started saying things like "there seems to be no active program." The bushies didn't want the hard data, just like they don't want the hard data on civilian casualties, it is not in their narrow political interest to collect it.

peace, please?

 

[miguel]

BUMP: hey Mushroom, was my answer good enough for ya?

 

[InfectedMushroom]

no miguel, you answered with ifs ...
it's already been shown quite clearly that the administration and bush lied and missled to get into this war. there are no ifs and buts there.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
no miguel, you answered with ifs ...
it's already been shown quite clearly that the administration and bush lied and missled to get into this war. there are no ifs and buts there.

Well, perhaps in your eyes. If that's really the case then were's the prosecution of Bush? Oh yeah, he got everyone in his pocket, right? Look, I've said it before, if they did lie, then punish 'em. Unless it's proven and not just innuendo, please stop stating stuff like you stated above. It's just NOT TRUE.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
no miguel, you answered with ifs ...
it's already been shown quite clearly that the administration and bush lied and missled to get into this war. there are no ifs and buts there.

Well, perhaps in your eyes. If that's really the case then were's the prosecution of Bush? Oh yeah, he got everyone in his pocket, right? Look, I've said it before, if they did lie, then punish 'em. Unless it's proven and not just innuendo, please stop stating stuff like you stated above. It's just NOT TRUE.

If the US would join the International Court, then I am quite sure Bush and others in his government would get charged with crimes. The US is keeping itself above international justice.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
no miguel, you answered with ifs ...
it's already been shown quite clearly that the administration and bush lied and missled to get into this war. there are no ifs and buts there.

Well, perhaps in your eyes. If that's really the case then were's the prosecution of Bush? Oh yeah, he got everyone in his pocket, right? Look, I've said it before, if they did lie, then punish 'em. Unless it's proven and not just innuendo, please stop stating stuff like you stated above. It's just NOT TRUE.

You hope it isn't!

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
no miguel, you answered with ifs ...
it's already been shown quite clearly that the administration and bush lied and missled to get into this war. there are no ifs and buts there.

Well, perhaps in your eyes. If that's really the case then were's the prosecution of Bush? Oh yeah, he got everyone in his pocket, right? Look, I've said it before, if they did lie, then punish 'em. Unless it's proven and not just innuendo, please stop stating stuff like you stated above. It's just NOT TRUE.

You hope it isn't!

See Red, that's the problem. You feel that I am rooting for one side or another, when all I am doing is trying to get through all the BS people are going on about. If it's proven, that's one thing. It's not, so it's another. Is this not clear to you?

 

[LunarRay]

Miguel.

I'm noticing a pattern with you Bush-haters. As long as there is some kind of snipe agaist Bush, WMD, Iraq, 2000 Election, etc. you are happy. Is that some kind of security blanket? Do you go to bed at night saying "good night, honey. Where's the WMD?

Well, geepers. What do you expect us to do get on his case for anything he may do right? We'd never have anything to say in that case. So we leap at the chance to comment on the really big issues that the President so easily provides for us as fodder..

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Miguel.

I'm noticing a pattern with you Bush-haters. As long as there is some kind of snipe agaist Bush, WMD, Iraq, 2000 Election, etc. you are happy. Is that some kind of security blanket? Do you go to bed at night saying "good night, honey. Where's the WMD?

Well, geepers. What do you expect us to do get on his case for anything he may do right? We'd never have anything to say in that case. So we leap at the chance to comment on the really big issues that the President so easily provides for us as fodder..

Uh, bullsh1t. The topics are not discussed anymore because someone always comes and throws in Iraq or WMD or Bush's IQ or Cheney's Halliburton or whatever even if the topic has nothing to do with it. Bush CANNOT do anything right, according to a lot of people here. Like I said in another thread, if Bush found the cure for cancer someone would still criticize him for it. "Well, what about AIDS?" was one example someone gave.

 

[Gaard]

Not proven does not equal not true. I think maybe you mispoke?

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Gaard
Not proven does not equal not true. I think maybe you mispoke?

That statement is true Gaard, but so is "Not proven does not equal true."

edit: I see what you are referring to. I was referring to the statement about it Bush lying as being NOT TRUE. The statement is not true, not that Bush was lying is not true.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: Gaard
Not proven does not equal not true. I think maybe you mispoke?

That statement is true Gaard, but so is "Not proven does not equal true."

edit: I see what you are referring to. I was referring to the statement about it Bush lying as being NOT TRUE. The statement is not true, not that Bush was lying is not true.

I see.