No more G4560 CPUs until April 24th? What the?

[escrow4]

Maybe Intel is throttling production so that people buy more i3s

The i3 has always been redundant. Spend less and get a poky Pentium or spend a bit more and get a real quad core with some puff behind it. i3 is I can't decide so let's buy it.

 

[SpaceBeer]

Wll, HT is really useful, and models with 4MB cache performed quite well. I would never buy 2c/2t CPU no matter how fast it is. Only now with cheaper HT Pentiums (and especially when R3 Ryzens arrive) i3 doesn't make much sense

 

[maddogmcgee]

Speaking of 2C/2T Intel CPUs, and Skylake Pentiums in specific, I dug out one of my G4400 test machines, plugged in an SSD, and installed Win10 build 15042. It ran pretty decently, in fact, seemingly as snappy as my DeskMini rigs, with G4600 Kaby Lake Pentium 2C/4T CPUs. Not to mention, the G4400 has the HD510, and was running on only a single 4GB DDR4-2133 DIMM (single-channel), and the G4600 with HD630, was running on 2x8GB DDR4-2400 (dual-channel).

So, for web browsing, there wasn't all that much difference. Maybe slight, not too sure. Scrolling windows at 4K res on the G4400 wasn't too shabby, given the RAM bottlenecks, as well as the GT1 iGPU.

I don't run separate Antivirus software, so there was nothing in the background bogging down either rig, except for Windows 10's background processes in general. (And I always disable the background loading / running of all of their various "apps".)

Edit: Given my personal experience with Intel SKL / KBL Pentiums, versus PD / SR -based APUs, I think that I prefer the Intel CPUs. Though, to be fair, I don't think that I've ever used an actual A8-7600. I have used an A4-6300, and an A6-5400K (non-overclocked). Both of those APUs were DOGS. Laggy as F.

Then again, for my laptops, I've got some Bay Trail Atom laptops and tablets. Of the laptops, I've got a few N2830 units (dual-core), and some Z3735F (quad-core). I also have a nice Lenovo with an A6-6310, which I think has a Turbo. Nominal is like 1.8Ghz (quad-core), with a Turbo (unknown how many cores Turbo), to as much as 2.2 or 2.4Ghz.

I much prefer the A6-6310 laptop, to the Z3735F, or the N2830. It just seems so much faster, even though I'm generally over-committed on RAM, and paging to the SSD every page I browse to. (Only 4GB RAM in that unit, need to upgrade.)

It should be noted that my choice of browser, Waterfox (for 64-bit OSes) and Firefox (for 32-bit OSes), benefits primarily from single-threaded speed, as opposed to Chrome, that benefit from multi-threaded.

So, possibly, with Chrome, an A8-7600 might outrun a SKL G4400 Pentium. But I don't think that it would in Waterfox.

Edit: I don't think that it would necessarily rise to the level of "nerd malpractice", if one installed any of those CPUs / APUs, the A8-7600, the Skylake G4400 Pentium, or the Kaby Lake G4560 Pentium (my personal preference among the three). The 1151 CPUs do have an upgrade path though, whereas that's pretty limited for the A8-7600, there's just not that much higher to go with that APU.

That being said, I've got a friend with an A10-5800K (remember those), in a decent-grade FM2 (only FM2, no FM2+, ugh) full ATX mobo, that he runs for his main rig. It runs pretty decently. He doesn't want to risk overclocking it, as the temperature sensors on those chips are royally borked. (Thanks AMD!)

I have 5800k and 6800k based media PC's and both of them do everything I need. At most it is 2 HD Twitch streams running at the same time, with maybe a few other chrome tabs open. With an SSD they resume windows fast enough to not cause any real issues. The PC also uses minimal power comapred to the TV, so that is not an issue either.

Not sure I need to upgrade these for several more years. If anything, the end of flash means that I need the power of windows PC's less rather than more. I'm not really sold on 4k, so I will be interested to see if they are still sufficient in 5 years time.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

That would be cool, if Dell was introducing a SteamBox, built around the G4560, and maybe a GTX 1050ti or so.

At the right price, that could be a runaway hit, really. PC gaming, at console prices? YES, please.

Course, that might just put me out of business, hypothetically-speaking.

Edit: Bonus points, if they had a model with a slim slot-load BR drive, that could play Blu-Ray video discs through the UEFI, without having to boot the OS first.

(I know some HP laptops had a "DVD QuickPlay" feature that worked kind of like that.)

Boy. When your imagination gets going, it gets going.

No grand conspiracy: when I was hunting for G4560 prices upthread, I saw a bunch of boring office prebuilts with G4560s in them.

If you have demand for systems like that, maybe you should be building Node 202 systems.

 

[cbn]

If you have demand for systems like that, maybe you should be building Node 202 systems.

That is a great form factor.

Silverstone RVZ02B and ML08 are cases with a similar layout.

 

[cbn]

I will be interested to see what AMD comes up with in the <$100 market for Ryzen or Ryzen-derived architectures.

Must be harvested chips based on Raven Ridge. (ie, Athlon x 4 version of the APU).....perhaps sometime in early 2018?

With that mentioned, I wonder how different these will be compared to Summit Ridge? I am assuming less PCIe lanes for one thing....so a better fit for B350? Better memory controller but less cache?

 

[SpaceBeer]

Can anyone estimate die size and production cost of G4560?

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

SpaceBeer: Insofar as they seem to be die-harvested i3s, which themselves are cut-down i5s, which themselves are cut-down i7s, I would guess the cost to Intel is the same for every single Kabylake CPU they produce. They would have to purposefully fuse or laser off certain functionality to produce the lower tiers of chips, either because said dice fail validation or because they want to do it to meet demand for the lower market tiers.

I would be very susprised if Intel doesn't have a nice fat margin even on the socketed Celerons. So probably well under $30 per die, regardless of whether it's a Celeron G3920 or an i7-7700K.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

SpaceBeer: Insofar as they seem to be die-harvested i3s, which themselves are cut-down i5s, which themselves are cut-down i7s, I would guess the cost to Intel is the same for every single Kabylake CPU they produce. They would have to purposefully fuse or laser off certain functionality to produce the lower tiers of chips, either because said dice fail validation or because they want to do it to meet demand for the lower market tiers.

Really? Got a link for that?

In previous generations, Intel had a separate 2-core die for i3s and below. Seems odd that they'd change it now.

 

[dullard]

The thing is, supposedly, with AMD's triple-core Phenom CPUs, they eventually had such good yields on the quad-core dies, that they had to intentionally hobble them by disabling a core, to produce their triple-core CPUs.

Maybe Intel does things differently, but why isn't Intel simply down-binning their unsold i3 dies, and selling them as G4560 CPUs? Sure, ASPs are lower, but... wouldn't you rather sell some CPUs, at some price above cost, rather than not sell any (G4560 CPUs, because there's no supply), and not sell any (i3 CPUs, because people don't want to pay the premium for them)?

So, if Intel is market-binning based purely on yields, rather than demand for each SKU, then they're going to end up with a warehouse of unsold i3s, and a lot of customers that might consider AMD, because their customers can't obtain the Intel CPU SKU that they want, at a reasonable price-point (MSRP).

I don't know how or why Intel operates. They could even change strategies mid-stream as demand grows and wanes. Even if they did decide to down-bin unsold i3 chips it would take quite a bit of time to recognize the market shift, make the changes, and get them to the resellers.

But I do know that the backorder has been updated to April 7 (2.5 weeks faster than before):
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304308-REG/intel_bx80677g4560_pentium_g4560_3_5_ghz.html

I still vote for the faster and lower power G4600 for only $10 more though if I were in the market for a budget computer.

 

[Leyawiin]

If you can't wait get the G4600. Buy it from Jet.com and use the "Triple15" discount to knock it down to just a few bucks more than a G4560. Better onboard video and slightly better performance would be worth another $10

 

[Arachnotronic]

SpaceBeer: Insofar as they seem to be die-harvested i3s, which themselves are cut-down i5s, which themselves are cut-down i7s, I would guess the cost to Intel is the same for every single Kabylake CPU they produce. They would have to purposefully fuse or laser off certain functionality to produce the lower tiers of chips, either because said dice fail validation or because they want to do it to meet demand for the lower market tiers.

I would be very susprised if Intel doesn't have a nice fat margin even on the socketed Celerons. So probably well under $30 per die, regardless of whether it's a Celeron G3920 or an i7-7700K.

i3s are based on separate 2+GT2 dies; i5 and above are based on 4+GT2 dies.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Oh, thanks for the correction I was actually hoping to have been wrong about that! The thought of an i7 getting hammered down to a Celeron is almost nauseating.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Oh, thanks for the correction I was actually hoping to have been wrong about that! The thought of an i7 getting hammered down to a Celeron is almost nauseating.

Yeah, that would be pretty sinful. I don't even like the idea that HT gets disabled on the i5s, honestly. Hopefully with Coffee Lake generation, i7 = 6c/12t, i5 = 4c/8t, and i3 = 4c/4t.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

If Intel has even half a brain they HAVE to do this. Ryzen lit a fire under them--more like a very large firecracker--and caught them with their pants down. I was genuinely surprised; I was expecting Zen to be Ivybridge IPC and to run hotter and slower than planned. The best thing about Ryzen may actually be that it'll force Intel to quit coasting and start innovating, or at least play their reserve cards faster, especially with regard to >4-core consumer CPUs.

 

[Arachnotronic]

If Intel has even half a brain they HAVE to do this. Ryzen lit a fire under them--more like a very large firecracker--and caught them with their pants down. I was genuinely surprised; I was expecting Zen to be Ivybridge IPC and to run hotter and slower than planned. The best thing about Ryzen may actually be that it'll force Intel to quit coasting and start innovating, or at least play their reserve cards faster, especially with regard to >4-core consumer CPUs.

The problem is that they have basically left its HEDT platform to rot, because its mainstream platforms could do the job. Part of it is negligence (they could easily do annual refreshes by bringing down Xeon dies and unlocking them for example), and part of it is execution problems on the server CPU/process side of things (look at how late Broadwell-E and Skylake-EP are).

If I were Intel, I would stop trying to sell mainstream platform to enthusiasts and put the energy into HEDT. Get the motherboard makers to offer a wider range of boards at varying price points for this platform and of course do what Intel is planning to do by putting the mainstream dies onto HEDT packages.

Fortunately Intel is prioritizing server CPUs over notebook/PC processors so that should have some positive effect on HEDT platform/enthusiasts in general in the future.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Intel is panicking. They're not going to say it of course, but their recent acquisition mania and their bizarre "we're gonna give Google this beta/ES Purley silicon" stunt make it obvious.

They have not left LGA2011v3 to rot; they're deliberately jacking prices (seriously, 1.7 large for the 6950X? Screeeeeew youuuuuu!) and gouging their base because they've been able to get away with it. It's the same kind of sociopathic arrogance that led them to distort the market vs. AMD in the first place, just spread wide and aimed at their consumers rather than their competitor. Well, now the tide has turned and their corporate sins are coming home to roost. Let's see what they do this time.

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't see why Intel would be that worried. They certainly already have chips ready that are faster than KL and BW-E. These chips must have been in the pipeline already. I think their only problem is pricing, timing, and segmenting. They will want to get the most out out of the previous chips. They will likely want to re-arrange their i3/i5/i7 segments.

If the new chips have a decent performance lead, that will reduce pricing pressure.

RyZen still seems a little unsteady on it's feet.

It's fairly certain that we will see examples of Coffee Lake (mobile), and SL-X fairly soon.

It's fairly certain that CL desktop will have a 6 core part.

The oddball here is KL-X. That one is hard to figure out. It was probably going to be an entry-level HEDT chip.