no marines were involved when they stormed Normandy?

[Auric]

Casualties were expected to be much higher so, yeah, the bulk of the force consisted of inexperienced conscripts.

 

[rommelrommel]

I guess he's saying they knew they'd take heavy casualties for the price of landing in Europe.

More practically... why would you retask divisions to the almost exact opposite side of the globe when they're already engaged? The marine corps was doing a good job and was needed in the east.

And really, allied casualties on D-day weren't all that disproportionate. The German losses are highly speculative and they suffered a higher percentage of KIA over injured than the allies most likely.

 

[TallBill]

Casualties were expected to be much higher so, yeah, the bulk of the force consisted of inexperienced conscripts.

That such a un-educated comment.

 

[waggy]

I guess he's saying they knew they'd take heavy casualties for the price of landing in Europe.

More practically... why would you retask divisions to the almost exact opposite side of the globe when they're already engaged? The marine corps was doing a good job and was needed in the east.

And really, allied casualties on D-day weren't all that disproportionate. The German losses are highly speculative and they suffered a higher percentage of KIA over injured than the allies most likely.

if that is what he is saying he is even dumber then i thought. They aren't going to keep the marines out because they are afraid of the numbers that would die.

the Marines where busy doing what they were better at. assaulting the islands (and there were a bunch of them) and creating beach heads that was on the other side of the world.

 

[MontyAC]

From wiki:

World War II


Photograph of the USMC War Memorial, which depicts the flag-raising on Iwo Jima. The memorial is modeled on Joe Rosenthal's famous Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima.




In World War II, the Marines played a central role in the Pacific War. The battles of Guadalcanal, Bougainville, Tarawa, Guam, Tinian, Cape Gloucester, Saipan, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa saw fierce fighting between Marines and the Imperial Japanese Army.
The island of Iwo Jima served as the next area of battle, which began on 19 February 1945. The Japanese had learned from their defeats in the Marianas campaign and prepared many fortified positions on the island, including pillboxes and underground tunnels. The Japanese put up fierce resistance, but American forces reached the summit of Mount Suribachi on 23 February. The mission was accomplished at very high losses, with 26,000 American casualties and 22,000 Japanese.[43]
By the end of the war, the Corps expanded from two brigades to six divisions, five air wings, and supporting troops, totaling about 485,000 Marines. In addition, 20 defense battalions and a parachute battalion were set raised.[44] Nearly 87,000 Marines were casualties during World War II (including nearly 20,000 killed), and 82 were awarded the Medal of Honor.[45]

 

[Imp]

Marines and Army were getting killed in very large numbers in the Pacific, so I don't buy the wanting to avoid casualties thing. They lost a ton of paratroopers, and they were seen as "elite" compared to regulars. Marines were just busy on the other side of the planet...

 

[Auric]

Disadvantages included being attackers and doing so with complications of debarquement, against elevation, across open space sans cover or surprise.

However, advantages included total air and sea superiority and, as it turned out, a largely low-grade and motley force of defenders -young, elderly, and infirm conscripts of various nationalities with no particular zeal (as opposed to an international volunteer force like the SS). Such men, and particularly the French, Polish, Russian, odd Korean (!) and so on without strong political views were surely most interested in an opportunity to surrender.

Marines in the Pacific were not easily replaced, yet their training and accumulated experience island hopping were vital immediately. Again, experienced or specialised units are not wasted on open attack when they can have greater impact where there is no other option and against specific targets, or following later when tactics are actually possible.

The replacement flag raising depicted (replacing original smaller one), is commonly confused with victory when it was actually a few days into a month long battle (that spot was uncontested) during which most of the participants were killed.

 

[Conscript]

Allied forces out numbered the axis at Normandy at over 15 to 1, yet estimates have the death toll at almost 1 to 2 (almost 15k of the allies). Waggy us taking this personally, but ultimately they weren't going to repurpose Marines to basically be fodder for what ultimately required just on overwhelming forces to win. More than likely waggy or his kin is army, and have not been able to get over the fact that the Marines are just simply not going to be used in that role over what is frankly more dispensinble options. Its harsh to say, but anyone who has even remotely taken a 201 history course is aware of that harsh truth

 

[datalink7]

Conscript, you do realize that there is nothing more elite about the Marines than the Army, right? People have this huge misconception that this is the case when it's not.

We aren't talking Force Recon here. Normal Marines.

 

[rommelrommel]

15k allies were not KIA at normandy... that's the casualty # (including injured.)

Never minding the fact that this is ww2 and most of these units were entirely new creations and the idea of "elite" formations was mostly in title and a little more training.

Really this marine vs army thing in your head is getting retarded to the point of obvious trolling.

 

[waggy]

Allied forces out numbered the axis at Normandy at over 15 to 1, yet estimates have the death toll at almost 1 to 2 (almost 15k of the allies). Waggy us taking this personally, but ultimately they weren't going to repurpose Marines to basically be fodder for what ultimately required just on overwhelming forces to win. More than likely waggy or his kin is army, and have not been able to get over the fact that the Marines are just simply not going to be used in that role over what is frankly more dispensinble options. Its harsh to say, but anyone who has even remotely taken a 201 history course is aware of that harsh truth

lol you are a fucking idiot. No im not taking it personally. i just find you idiotic and correcting you on what you claim is fact.

hell you can't even understand half the stuff i said (for that i apologize. i forget you are a idiot).

The marines were FAR better at setting up a beachead that is why they were in the Pacific. They would go in and clear the beach then the army would come in and clean up. The marines did the far more deadly and hard part. They then would move on to another beach and do it again...and again..and again.

The japs figured out FAST how to make it harder yet they still failed.

Moving the Marines to storm the beaches on D-Day is a idiotic idea. they were half a world away and were needed in the pacific. That theater was just as important in the war as Europe.

Your claim that they didn't move them because they didn't want the loses is fucking idiotic. The pacific island clearing was as bad.

also your idea that i'm knocking the marines is insane. I been giving them tons of credit. They were the best at beach clearings that's why they were kept in the pacific.

 

[jersiq]

Conscript, you do realize that there is nothing more elite about the Marines than the Army, right? People have this huge misconception that this is the case when it's not.

We aren't talking Force Recon here. Normal Marines.

Well, you know what they say:
Aint' Ready to be a Marine Yet

 

[TallBill]

Well, you know what they say:
Aint' Ready to be a Marine Yet

Yeah, I'll stay out of the Navy, thanks.

 

[datalink7]

Well, you know what they say:
Aint' Ready to be a Marine Yet

I will admit that the Marines have far better propaganda than the Army does, which is part of the reason that many consider them "elite" when in fact they are not.

 

[TallBill]

I will admit that the Marines have far better propaganda than the Army does, which is part of the reason that many consider them "elite" when in fact they are not.

They also have WAY shittier equipment and hide their broken/overweight. :awe:

And promote slower.

 

[datalink7]

They also have WAY shittier equipment and hide their broken/overweight. :awe:

And promote slower.

Haha, this is very true actually. I've worked with Marines on occasion and one was telling me that they had the President come through for a visit on one of their bases, and they rounded up all the fat people and hid them somewhere out of sight 😀

 

[Auric]

Moving the Marines to storm the beaches on D-Day is a idiotic idea. they were half a world away and were needed in the pacific. That theater was just as important in the war as Europe.

Western Europe was the priority since actually liberating like people and property and, especially later, to conquer territory ahead of Russia. Conquest of Nippon was only to proceed afterwards and in the meantime necessitated time consuming advancement and preparation anyway. To underscore the point, the Asia-Pacific war was a colonial contest.

Haha, this is very true actually. I've worked with Marines on occasion and one was telling me that they had the President come through for a visit on one of their bases, and they rounded up all the fat people and hid them somewhere out of sight 😀

For shame! :$ 😀

 

[alkemyst]

Clearly the OP's screen name is a misnomer.

 

[waggy]

Western Europe was the priority since actually liberating like people and property and, especially later, to conquer territory ahead of Russia. Conquest of Nippon was only to proceed afterwards and in the meantime necessitated time consuming advancement and preparation anyway. To underscore the point, the Asia-Pacific war was a colonial contest.

You are right. But it was still vastly important. we NEEDED those islands to keep the stranglehold on Japan. They were cut off pretty bad with the loss of life and men. without it Japan was a real threat to the US.

The Europe front was very important in the libration of people.

Without Winning Both the war could have ended much different. both were very important.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Air Force

 

[Broheim]

I will admit that the Marines have far better propaganda than the Army does, which is part of the reason that many consider them "elite" when in fact they are not.

the only thing the Marines are better at is giving you the green weenie.


there's actually a very long list of advantages to joining the army, like getting to wear your cammies in public and stuff like that.

 

[mugs]

Rangers were involved in scaling the cliffs of Point Du Hoc. They are technically not Marines, but they are the best of the best.

To say that Army Rangers were technically not marines is like saying Hitler technically wasn't Jewish.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Actually, if I am not mistaken, there were Marines who took part in the Normandy invasion -- just not US Marines. I believe some Royal Marines took part and IIRC, there were French Marines among the Free French who landed. 😀

 

[Broheim]

Conscript, you do realize that there is nothing more elite about the Marines than the Army, right? People have this huge misconception that this is the case when it's not.

We aren't talking Force Recon here. Normal Marines.

force recon isn't even close to the army's 75th.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Allied forces out numbered the axis at Normandy at over 15 to 1, yet estimates have the death toll at almost 1 to 2 (almost 15k of the allies). Waggy us taking this personally, but ultimately they weren't going to repurpose Marines to basically be fodder for what ultimately required just on overwhelming forces to win. More than likely waggy or his kin is army, and have not been able to get over the fact that the Marines are just simply not going to be used in that role over what is frankly more dispensinble options. Its harsh to say, but anyone who has even remotely taken a 201 history course is aware of that harsh truth

As someone else said, the Marines were already engaged in the Pacific War and there was no good reason to repurpose them to land in Normandy, given the logistics involved (transporting them half way across the globe, for starters). I guarantee no US General said "Well, a beach landing is what the Marines should be used for, but Normandy is going to have high casualties, so let's just use the Army as cannon fodder and spare the 'elite' Marines so we can use them in the Pacific." The fact is that it just made no logistical sense to use the Marines there when the Army could do the job just as well and the Marines were charged with fighting in the Pacific. I guarantee you that if an equal number of Marines had landed on Normandy rather than the Army, the casualty figures would've been more or less the same.

Also, no offense to anyone, but I've frankly never understood the perception that Marines are elite. For sure, you have to be in top physical condition and be very brave to land on a beach with fire coming down all around you. But as someone who has met both Army soldiers and Marines, I never could tell much difference in my interaction in terms of the quality of the person. I've known two Marines directly -- an uncle and my brother's friend, and both were complete idiots and that lowered my opinion of the Marines. So, please educate me on the why the Marines are so elite.