No End To War - Excellent Article by Pat Buchanan

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Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
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Great articles. I'm surprised more people don't question our blind allegiance to Israel. Or ask themselves if we are really making things better for ourselves and the world by fighting the war in Iraq. I don't agree with Pat on many things but he is on the money here.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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That sounds like a WAR CRY! Conservatives vs. Neocons. I gotta agree with Pat though, the neocons are almost done. They may have four more years, but that will be it. They represent the most cynical, despotic, and power-hungry lot ever seen in American politics. Perle is no PEARL.

Pat is an isolationist at heart, so many of the little escapades the U.S. has seen fit to take on wouldn't have gotten past his radar had he been President. I actually agree with Buchanan on a few issues, but he has, for the most part, stayed out of the Iraq fight in public, until recently. I wonder why? Does he think Bush is now weak? Does he think he can take him out? Or, does he have a favorite son he'd like to take out Bush?

The convention should be interesting. I hope the conservatives are able to take back their party, but they will probably give up their principles for a win in November. Let's hope they get a commitment from Bush to at least install traditional conservatives as SOS and SOD.

-Robert
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,240
136
I've seen Pat ripping on the Iraq war on McLaughlin group on Sundays for quite some time now. He's been one of the most critical without being just plain looney like the liberal woman on there. You now things have gotten scary when Pat starts making the most sense out of anyone....


He had some real interesting things to say this Sunday in ref to Clarke and the Iraq war this weekend. Did anyone else catch this? He basically backed up Clarke, and explained very well how what Clarke testified to in the 9/11 and the Aug 2002 "gotcha" memo are not inconsistant, and gave personal insight b/c he also held an special advisor post in the Nixon admin. Interesting stuff.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Hafen, you mean this?

MR. BUCHANAN: He's exactly right. Look, he's a special assistant to the president of the United States. You go out and you make the president's case. You are an advocate. You are a surrogate. You have the president's loyalty and trust, and you go out and make the case. And if you cannot do that, you either remain silent or you leave.

I don't have any problem there with what this man said, and I don't know that there is any necessary inconsistency with him coming out and telling the story that he didn't tell in public. I don't have a problem with that.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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A time for truth.....Buchanan comes through again

Posted: May 12, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.


With pictures of the sadistic sexual abuse of Iraqis in Abu Ghraib prison still spilling out onto the front pages, it is not too early to draw some conclusions.

The neoconservative hour is over. All the blather about "empire," our "unipolar moment," "Pax Americana" and "benevolent global hegemony" will be quietly put on a shelf and forgotten as infantile prattle.

America is not going to fight a five- or 10-year war in Iraq. Nor will we be launching any new invasions soon. The retreat of American empire, begun at Fallujah, is underway.

With a $500 billion deficit, we do not have the money for new wars. With an Army of 480,000 stretched thin, we do not have the troops. With April-May costing us a battalion of dead and wounded, we are not going to pay the price. With the squalid photos from Abu Ghraib, we no longer have the moral authority to impose our "values" on Iraq.

Bush's "world democratic revolution" is history.


Given the hatred of the United States and Bush in the Arab world, as attested to by Egypt's Hosni Mubarak, it is almost delusional to think Arab peoples are going to follow America's lead.

It is a time for truth. In any guerrilla war we fight, there is going to be a steady stream of U.S. dead and wounded. There is going to be collateral damage ? i.e., women and children slain and maimed. There will be prisoners abused. And inevitably, there will be outrages by U.S. troops enraged at the killing of comrades and the jeering of hostile populations. If you would have an empire, this goes with the territory. And if you are unprepared to pay the price, give it up.

The administration's shock and paralysis at publication of the S&M photos from Abu Ghraib tell us we are not up to it. For what is taking place in Iraq is child's play compared to what we did in the Philippines a century ago. Only there, they did not have digital cameras, videocams and the Internet.

Iraq was an unnecessary war that may become one of the great blunders in U.S. history. That the invasion was brilliantly conceived and executed by Gen. Franks, that our fighting men were among the finest we ever sent to war, that they have done good deeds and brave acts, is undeniable. Yet, if recent surveys are accurate, the Iraqis no longer want us there.

Outside the Kurdish areas, over 80 percent of Sunnis and Shias view us as occupiers. Over 50 percent believe there are occasions when U.S. soldiers deserve killing. The rejoicing around every destroyed military vehicle where U.S. soldiers have died should tell us that the battle for hearts and minds is being lost.

Why are we so hated in the Middle East? Three fundamental reasons:



Our invasion of Iraq is seen as a premeditated and unjust war to crush a weak Arab nation that had not threatened or attacked us, to seize its oil.

We are seen as an arrogant imperial superpower that dictates to Arab peoples and sustains regimes that oppress them.

We are seen as the financier and armorer of an Israel that oppresses and robs Palestinians of their land and denies them rights we hypocritically preach to the world.

Until we address these perceptions and causes of the conflict between us, we will not persuade the Arab world to follow us.

What should Bush do now? He should declare that the United States has no intention of establishing permanent bases in Iraq, and that we intend to withdraw all U.S. troops after elections, if the Iraqis tell us to leave. Then we should schedule elections at the earliest possible date this year.

The Iraqi peoples should then be told that U.S. soldiers are not going to fight and die indefinitely for their freedom. If they do not want to be ruled by Sheik Moqtada al-Sadr or some future Saddam, they will have to fight themselves. Otherwise, they will have to live with them, even as they lived with Saddam. For in the last analysis, it is their country, not ours.

The president should also offer to withdraw U.S. forces from any Arab country that wishes us to leave. We have already pulled out of Saudi Arabia. Let us pull out of the rest unless they ask that we remain. Our military presence in these Arab and Islamic countries, it would seem, does less to prevent terror attacks upon us than to incite them.

A presidential election is where the great foreign-policy debate should take place over whether to maintain U.S. troops all over the world, or bring them home and let other nations determine their own destiny. Unfortunately, we have two candidates and two parties that agree on our present foreign policy that is conspicuously failing.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
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www.ShawCAD.com
Yep - I can't wait until his next article...

Sure seems to be a love then hate then love relationship with some people and Buchanan.

Carry on though - this is great fun:D

CkG
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Well, if Buchanan would drop the fundamentalist Christian and xenophobic viewpoints, he'd be much more tolerable! ;)
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,938
10,829
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Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yep - I can't wait until his next article...

Sure seems to be a love then hate then love relationship with some people and Buchanan.

Carry on though - this is great fun:D

CkG
Do you have any substantive response to Buchanan's article -- his assertion that "the neoconservative hour is over" or his three fundamental reasons why America is hated in the Middle East, CAD?

You say you can't wait until his next article. Care to respond to this one?
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Yep - I can't wait until his next article...

Sure seems to be a love then hate then love relationship with some people and Buchanan.

Carry on though - this is great fun:D

CkG
Do you have any substantive response to Buchanan's article -- his assertion that "the neoconservative hour is over" or his three fundamental reasons why America is hated in the Middle East, CAD?

You say you can't wait until his next article. Care to respond to this one?

Yes, his "article" or rather opinion piece is well written yet I don't agree with his conclusions or some of his premises.

Now back to the fun of watching people drool over Buchanon's opinion piece.:D

CkG
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
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It's not upside down day, it's just sad. Pat Buchanan has many ideas that make Strom Thurmond look like Mother Theresa. However, if he say one bad thing about someone in the Bush admin. he's got these hypocritical Bush haters swinging from his ball bag. I'm sure Sandorski's "brilliant" and "decent President" comment got him head of the line privledges for that honor. Someone, anyone for that matter, criticizes Bush or his admin. and you people are lining up to put a hickey on his ass. Pucker up girls, I hear Osama and Saddam said some bad things about Bush.

Umm, it's not a good idea to drop acid and post at the same time.
 

Zephyr106

Banned
Jul 2, 2003
1,309
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Originally posted by: arsbanned
It's not upside down day, it's just sad. Pat Buchanan has many ideas that make Strom Thurmond look like Mother Theresa. However, if he say one bad thing about someone in the Bush admin. he's got these hypocritical Bush haters swinging from his ball bag. I'm sure Sandorski's "brilliant" and "decent President" comment got him head of the line privledges for that honor. Someone, anyone for that matter, criticizes Bush or his admin. and you people are lining up to put a hickey on his ass. Pucker up girls, I hear Osama and Saddam said some bad things about Bush.

Umm, it's not a good idea to drop acid and post at the same time.

I agree. However, a winning combo is to drop acid (or snort coke) and formulate foreign policy at the same time.

Zephyr
 
Feb 10, 2000
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I have always found Buchanan pretty much repugnant, so I find it a little jarring to read a series of articles under his byline that are so reasoned and sensible. I doubt he and I would agree on too many things, but we do agree on the merits of the Bush administration's pre-emptive approach in Iraq.