No Cross for you

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
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wow

Western Wall rabbi says pope should not wear cross at site
Mar. 17, 2009
Matthew Wagner , THE JERUSALEM POST

Ahead of Pope Benedict XVI's May visit to Israel, the rabbi of the Western Wall, Shmuel Rabinovitch, has said that it is not proper to come to the site wearing a cross.

The pope wears a cross in all public appearances and is slated to visit the Western Wall on May 12 after a meeting with Muslim religious leaders at the Dome of the Rock.

After the visit, which will include a meeting with Rabinovitch, the pope is slated to meet with Israel's two chief rabbis, Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar.

"My position is that it is not fitting to enter the Western Wall area with religious symbols, including a cross," said Rabinovitch in a telephone interview with The Jerusalem Post Monday. "I feel the same way about a Jew putting on a tallit and phylacteries and going into a church."

Rabinovitch is responsible for religious decorum at the site.

"In coming days I intend to discuss the issue with the pope's people," Wadie Abunassar, media coordinator for the pope's visit to the Holy Land, said in response to reports that the pontiff would not remove his cross. "I cannot imagine the Holy Father removing his cross."

On a historic visit to the Holy Land in 2000, Pope John Paul II prayed at the Western Wall, stuffing a written prayer between the cracks. Pictures from the visit clearly show him wearing a golden cross while praying.

Despite this precedent, Rabinovitch maintains his position against the display of religious symbols. In recent years there have been at least two incidents in which Rabinovitch has barred access to the Western Wall by Christian clergy wearing crosses.

In November 2007, he refused to allow a group of Austrian bishops led by the Archbishop of Vienna, Christoph Schonborn, access to the site after the clergymen refused to remove or hide their crosses.

At the time Rabinovitch told the Post that "crosses are a symbol that hurt Jewish feelings."

In May 2008, a group of Irish prelates from both Catholic and Protestant churches were prevented from visiting the Western Wall for the same reason.

Rabinovitch also opposes security arrangements that would prevent worshipers from reaching the Kotel for several hours before and during the pope's visit.

"Police and Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) authorities met with me and presented certain demands for security during the visit that include closing the Western Wall to people who want to pray," said Rabinovitch.

"For the past 42 years, no one has ever been prevented from praying at the Western Wall and, God willing, no one ever will. A solution needs to be reached that provides adequate security for the pope without infringing on the right of everyone to pray. The Western Wall belongs to everyone."

A senior Catholic church official said in response that the security arrangements for the pope were an internal Israeli affair that had nothing to do with the Church.

Before 1967, when the Western Wall was under Jordanian rule, Jews were forbidden to pray there. In the Six Day War, Israel conquered east Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, from Jordan and prayer was opened to all religions.

Apparently not.

It's as if you were having a lavish party, and the decorator you hired made demands on what your guests can and cannot wear...

The upsetting part to me is this:

-Is not the Western Wall site a part of Christianity as well, given the history?

-
"crosses are a symbol that hurt Jewish feelings."

Boo-Urns! Perhaps our, mainly Christian, United States of America should stop offending "Jewish feelings" with our heathen illgotten goy money and cut off the billions of dollars we hand off to Israel every year.

Even Barry wore a yarmulke when he visited the Western Wall. When he put his little personal prayer into the wall, some douchebag "rabbinical student" stole it and leaked the contents to the likes of TMZ. Where's the religiosity and outrage regarding that incident?
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
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If he is that upset about the pope wearing a cross, I wonder how he feels about a mosque on the temple mount.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
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Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
If he is that upset about the pope wearing a cross, I wonder how he feels about a mosque on the temple mount.

Apparently, the mosque is not "idol worship."

Methinks that Islam and Judaism have a lot more in common with each other than they do with us "idolators," the Christians.

I wonder why they don't get along better than they do.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
If he is that upset about the pope wearing a cross, I wonder how he feels about a mosque on the temple mount.

Apparently, the mosque is not "idol worship."

Methinks that Islam and Judaism have a lot more in common with each other than they do with us "idolators," the Christians.

I wonder why they don't get along better than they do.

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Situational wrong again fallout man. In terms of a numbers of adherents, Islam is a giant, Christianity may be of equal or greater size, but the Catholic part of Christianity is not that big, and comparatively, Judaism, even world wide, is a total pygmy.

Add in the fact that Israel has totally PO'd about 1.4 billion world wide Muslims, and its not hard to figure out which group the Pope will want to win over. And get a clue, its not going to be Israel.

On the other hand, if some idiot Rabbi tells the pope he can't wear his cross, Israel is almost certain to lose the world wide public relations game.

 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
If he is that upset about the pope wearing a cross, I wonder how he feels about a mosque on the temple mount.

Apparently, the mosque is not "idol worship."

Methinks that Islam and Judaism have a lot more in common with each other than they do with us "idolators," the Christians.

I wonder why they don't get along better than they do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Situational wrong again fallout man. In terms of a numbers of adherents, Islam is a giant, Christianity may be of equal or greater size, but the Catholic part of Christianity is not that big, and comparatively, Judaism, even world wide, is a total pygmy.

Add in the fact that Israel has totally PO'd about 1.4 billion world wide Muslims, and its not hard to figure out which group the Pope will want to win over. And get a clue, its not going to be Israel.

On the other hand, if some idiot Rabbi tells the pope he can't wear his cross, Israel is almost certain to lose the world wide public relations game.

nice spin on things...but humongous fail!!
Israel cares little or nothing about the wwprg!!
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
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Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
If he is that upset about the pope wearing a cross, I wonder how he feels about a mosque on the temple mount.

Apparently, the mosque is not "idol worship."

Methinks that Islam and Judaism have a lot more in common with each other than they do with us "idolators," the Christians.

I wonder why they don't get along better than they do.

The biggest wedge between Christian and Islam occurred in two time periods.

One was between 1400 and 1900 when the Ottoman Empire was literally banging on Europe's door. The Ottomans came close to Vienna a couple times and made life hell for the Southern/Eastern Europeans. There was a lot of Islamophobia being mustered in Europe during that time period.

The second wedge was during WW2. Basically, the entire muslim world was allied with Nazi Germany. Hitler/Himmler placed Arabs slightly above Jews in the racial hiearchy, but it was good enough to allow conscription in foreign legions. Secondly, they held the belief that while Arabs/Muslims in general were racially impure, spiritually, they were Aryan in nature. When Nazi Germany lost, the Arabs didn't play the political game as well as they should have and ended up getting demonized by people in Truman/Eisenhower's administration.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
If he is that upset about the pope wearing a cross, I wonder how he feels about a mosque on the temple mount.

Apparently, the mosque is not "idol worship."

Methinks that Islam and Judaism have a lot more in common with each other than they do with us "idolators," the Christians.

I wonder why they don't get along better than they do.

Perhaps two of the reasons, both from the west, are the placing of the Jewish nation on lands they were on, and the role of Israel as a military proxy in the region.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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As JEDIyoda points out, "nice spin on things...but humongous fail!!
Israel cares little or nothing about the wwprg!! "

Which is why Israel is skating on very thin ice, when Uncle Sammy gets tired of bailing Israel out, they will be toast.
If nothing else, Uncle Sammy can no longer afford the burden.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
If someone set off a small bomb during a Catholic Sunday service over this, would it be a Weapon of Mass Destruction?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
If he is that upset about the pope wearing a cross, I wonder how he feels about a mosque on the temple mount.

Apparently, the mosque is not "idol worship."

Methinks that Islam and Judaism have a lot more in common with each other than they do with us "idolators," the Christians.

I wonder why they don't get along better than they do.

All three of those religions are a pox on the skin of the world. Beyond their few and far between lessons in basic morality, they are themselves the ultimate sin.

sheep.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: Lemon law
As JEDIyoda points out, "nice spin on things...but humongous fail!!
Israel cares little or nothing about the wwprg!! "

Which is why Israel is skating on very thin ice, when Uncle Sammy gets tired of bailing Israel out, they will be toast.
If nothing else, Uncle Sammy can no longer afford the burden.

as usual with you its open mouth insert foot......
what did Israsel do before we decided to help them???.........
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
Originally posted by: fallout man
[
It's as if you were having a lavish party, and the decorator you hired made demands on what your guests can and cannot wear...

The upsetting part to me is this:

-Is not the Western Wall site a part of Christianity as well, given the history?

-
"crosses are a symbol that hurt Jewish feelings."

Boo-Urns! Perhaps our, mainly Christian, United States of America should stop offending "Jewish feelings" with our heathen illgotten goy money and cut off the billions of dollars we hand off to Israel every year.

Even Barry wore a yarmulke when he visited the Western Wall. When he put his little personal prayer into the wall, some douchebag "rabbinical student" stole it and leaked the contents to the likes of TMZ. Where's the religiosity and outrage regarding that incident?

No, it is more like going to someone's (that your family has a relationship with) house and then not being let in because you refuse to take off your shoes, even though your older brother once went into that house with his shoes on.

When you go to someone's house you respect their rules.
 

Sacrilege

Senior member
Sep 6, 2007
647
0
0
Originally posted by: gotsmack
Originally posted by: fallout man
[
It's as if you were having a lavish party, and the decorator you hired made demands on what your guests can and cannot wear...

The upsetting part to me is this:

-Is not the Western Wall site a part of Christianity as well, given the history?

-
"crosses are a symbol that hurt Jewish feelings."

Boo-Urns! Perhaps our, mainly Christian, United States of America should stop offending "Jewish feelings" with our heathen illgotten goy money and cut off the billions of dollars we hand off to Israel every year.

Even Barry wore a yarmulke when he visited the Western Wall. When he put his little personal prayer into the wall, some douchebag "rabbinical student" stole it and leaked the contents to the likes of TMZ. Where's the religiosity and outrage regarding that incident?

No, it is more like going to someone's (that your family has a relationship with) house and then not being let in because you refuse to take off your shoes, even though your older brother once went into that house with his shoes on.

When you go to someone's house you respect their rules.

Your analogy is flawed. A predominately Christian nation is propping up this house you speak of.
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
Originally posted by: Sacrilege
Originally posted by: gotsmack
Originally posted by: fallout man
[
It's as if you were having a lavish party, and the decorator you hired made demands on what your guests can and cannot wear...

The upsetting part to me is this:

-Is not the Western Wall site a part of Christianity as well, given the history?

-
"crosses are a symbol that hurt Jewish feelings."

Boo-Urns! Perhaps our, mainly Christian, United States of America should stop offending "Jewish feelings" with our heathen illgotten goy money and cut off the billions of dollars we hand off to Israel every year.

Even Barry wore a yarmulke when he visited the Western Wall. When he put his little personal prayer into the wall, some douchebag "rabbinical student" stole it and leaked the contents to the likes of TMZ. Where's the religiosity and outrage regarding that incident?

No, it is more like going to someone's (that your family has a relationship with) house and then not being let in because you refuse to take off your shoes, even though your older brother once went into that house with his shoes on.

When you go to someone's house you respect their rules.

Your analogy is flawed. A predominately Christian nation is propping up this house you speak of.

Seperation of church and state.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Who owns the Jerusalem wailing wall? Certainly not Israel, they currently militarily occupy it, but its still land that must be given back under UN charter, the only charter that legitimizes the State of Israel in the first place.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
I'm not a big fan of organized religion but this just strikes me as intolerant on the part of the rabbi. When you're part of a such a small and hated group, maybe it would be a better strategy to play nice and try to keep any friends that are willing to have you?
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
If he is that upset about the pope wearing a cross, I wonder how he feels about a mosque on the temple mount.
ROFL...thanks for putting things into perspective! :laugh: